Manual valve body W/O engine braking?

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ACME SS

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I could probably call Summit or Jegs but you guys actually drive this stuff so I trust your opinion more.

I would like to go to a reverse pattern manual valve body but NOT have the engine braking feature. As for my intended driving purpose, I prefer a manual transmission for the added input it adds to the experience of driving and I would possibly want to take it to the local track from time to time for test and tune purposes. I have no desire to highly modify my car into a race car, just want it to be more fun to drive. I also would like to stay in the $500 or less range on the valve body with the understanding that a floor shifter will probably double this cost. The specification charts I find don't seem to address the engine braking or no engine braking aspect.
I'm curious if anyone out there has a manual valve body like I described above W/O engine braking that was on the low price range and if so, would you recommend it? Which one did you purchase? I'm also interested in a floor shifter to go with it that works good for you. I have had experience with a Hurst floor shifter in the past (don't recall the model but it would be in the "you get what you pay for" category as my son purchased it when he was in high school) that would bind constantly, so I'm a little nervous of buying another junk but as I mentioned above, I don't plan to full-on race the car, just drive it mostly on the street.
Thanks
 
The difference you're referring is the "low band apply" feature, on a full manual valve body.
A low band apply body WILL have engine braking in all three gears. A non low band apply, will freewheel in low gear only, if power is removed (you take your foot off the gas. )
Low band apply is much safer for the trans, and your feet, non-LBA is supposed to be (microscopically) faster/quicker.
Any full manual body, either reverse or forward will simulate a stick shift somewhat, cause you will have to make EVERY shift, up and down yourself.
A custom shifter is not necessary. I daily drove a 440 rr with a reverse full manual body, non-LBA, with the column shift for years . (I have three cars with full manual valve bodies, and another car gonna get one, with a transbrake).
Edit: shifter. As above, my rr uses stock column shifter, 62 uses a B&M pro ratchet, Cortina uses a modified Cheetah for the glide with a transbrake,(was used in the 62 with a 727), and the opel also uses a pro ratchet for the Turbo 400 transbrake.
 
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A non-LBA manual vb might be microscopically quicker only in some cases, but it depends on a few other variables. That's why I like the NLBA mvb because it eliminates those variables.
 
Summit or jegs likely won't be able to give you good torqueflite advice. Powerglide advice .. probably.

Not sure why you'd want to put a non-low band apply VB in your torqueflite. Intended use matters very little when it comes to this as you can roll the sprag in first gear with 500hp or 1000hp, on the street or the track. If it's a 727 you'll explode the stock high gear drum out of the case after a sprag failure. You want the low band on in 1st gear as to provide more sprag protection.
 
I have a cheetah RMVB I would sell. It does not have LBA. Its vintage around 1993 but has very little use on it.
 
Summit or jegs likely won't be able to give you good torqueflite advice. Powerglide advice .. probably.

Not sure why you'd want to put a non-low band apply VB in your torqueflite. Intended use matters very little when it comes to this as you can roll the sprag in first gear with 500hp or 1000hp, on the street or the track. If it's a 727 you'll explode the stock high gear drum out of the case after a sprag failure. You want the low band on in 1st gear as to provide more sprag protection.

Well good point on why I would want it. Honestly I didn't know anything about it until I read an older thread on here and it sounded like it was a racing only option. Summit has no information on their site and I figure the sales guys on the phone wouldn't know either. I read the comments above and agree low band apply makes sense now that I understand it. Thanks for questioning this, that is why I posted this question. I don't suppose I can change the topic title...
 
OK so now I understand the low band apply will engine brake in all 3 gears and NLBA only in 2-3.
I guess my question now is how does this differ from a full automatic? I'm picturing the car not really coasting with a manual valve body, is that the case? I have driven many many miles with a manual transmission and as you coast up to a stop sign or whatever it is nice to just drop it into neutral. On a reverse manual valve body, that would not be possible since 2 and 1 are in between. I may rethink this whole idea. Granted a forward would work but I would never trust my column shifter to not drop into R. I would definately want to replace it with something a little safer in that case.
 
So, if you don't have the income to beef the 727, but want to shift em yerself, Get a Manual VB that Has Low Band Apply?
 
I tried to call a@a biut that 2 years ago. They wanted to sell me all kinda **** to make a bulletproof unit, that i didnt need. But would Give me No damn Tech or even input on the VB
 
OK so now I understand the low band apply will engine brake in all 3 gears and NLBA only in 2-3.
I guess my question now is how does this differ from a full automatic? I'm picturing the car not really coasting with a manual valve body, is that the case? I have driven many many miles with a manual transmission and as you coast up to a stop sign or whatever it is nice to just drop it into neutral. On a reverse manual valve body, that would not be possible since 2 and 1 are in between. I may rethink this whole idea. Granted a forward would work but I would never trust my column shifter to not drop into R. I would definately want to replace it with something a little safer in that case.
There is not really engine braking in third gear because of how the transmissions work. The torque converter uncouples quickly when slowing down in third at road speeds, so it feels like a regular automatic coming to a stop and engine stays running. Then just remember to shift down through second and back into first.

When people say it’s like driving a manual it is misleading. Yes you must select the gear you want every time, but it will never stall coming to a stop.

I run the Cheetah with no low band apply on the streets. Once you get used to it, you’ll know when to downshift before a stop without it engine braking really hard and annoying if you go with low band apply.
 
So, if you don't have the income to beef the 727, but want to shift em yerself, Get a Manual VB that Has Low Band Apply?
Kind of, yes. But low band apply is optional. The manual valve body is considered a race part because it has the pressures turned up all the time. That is why there is no throttle linkage. The only part that should be replaced to match the valve body is the intermediate band apply lever, what everyone calls the kickdown lever. But if you are not racing, not making full throttle hard shifts all the time, that will not really cause any problems leaving the stock ratio lever in place. The transmission has the be out and torque converter removed to replace the intermediate band apply lever, and then you may as well rebuild it.

If you have a trans that is already mostly worn out the manual valve body will not help this.
 
Kind of, yes. But low band apply is optional. The manual valve body is considered a race part because it has the pressures turned up all the time. That is why there is no throttle linkage. The only part that should be replaced to match the valve body is the intermediate band apply lever, what everyone calls the kickdown lever. But if you are not racing, not making full throttle hard shifts all the time, that will not really cause any problems leaving the stock ratio lever in place. The transmission has the be out and torque converter removed to replace the intermediate band apply lever, and then you may as well rebuild it.

If you have a trans that is already mostly worn out the manual valve body will not help this.
Cool! Thank You! My trans is tight. Just don't like the old B@m kit the rebuilder put in 12 years ago. And it always seemed to work better in drive...
 
I call the arm on the outside of the trans the kickdown lever.
Throttle Pressure Lever, at least I think that's the correct terminology. Don't get me wrong, I've been calling that a KD lever for over 30 years...... then again, many years ago, I worked with a Disgruntled Old Redneck. I told him "I've been doing this 15 Fn Years" his reply? "Well, you've been doing it wrong for 15 fn years!" Actually, the damn drywall didn't care, it was a matter of preference lol
 
My avatar has a Griner RMVB and I drive it some on the street. It has low band apply. It is simple and intuitive to drive. And as stated above, the engine will not stall at a stop if you forget to downshift. It's in a CRT 727 and is just a joy to slam through the gears. While I love rowing a manual, to me, the feeling of a power-on upshift with a hard-hitting auto is also fantastic! Going down the track and smacking the shifter at WOT for the next gear instantaneuosly..ahhh...what a hoot!!

I don't think you'd be disappointed.
 
Kind of, yes. But low band apply is optional. The manual valve body is considered a race part because it has the pressures turned up all the time. That is why there is no throttle linkage. The only part that should be replaced to match the valve body is the intermediate band apply lever, what everyone calls the kickdown lever. But if you are not racing, not making full throttle hard shifts all the time, that will not really cause any problems leaving the stock ratio lever in place. The transmission has the be out and torque converter removed to replace the intermediate band apply lever, and then you may as well rebuild it.

If you have a trans that is already mostly worn out the manual valve body will not help this.
Hey thanks, this was very helpful. I have a much better understanding of how it will drive with this modification and the information on the intermediate band apply lever was extremely informative.
When I was in high school I had a 2 hr auto mechanics class and the teacher let you do whatever. On week 2 I brought in my Demon with a worn out 727. He helped me rebuild it and then I ended up rebuilding a dozen more for students and teachers. Replacing all the parts and having it work is rewarding but now I want to really understand how it FUNCTIONS. Tom Hand's manual is pretty darn good from what I have looked at so far. I just need to read it in the morning and not right before bed...LOL
 
There are so many variables in a trans that it's pretty high level thinking to know what affects what; all things considered. I just want to know how to make them do what I want them to do and not break. I don't care about the why so much.
 
You want a valve body with low band apply for the street/strip. Period.
You also want to set up the transmission itself to compliment the valve body.
Makers of VB's have spent a lot of time sorting out the band overlap issue.
 
My understanding is that the L/R band does not apply when taking off in Drive. It does apply if the shift lever is pulled into 'L'.
So in the original factory configuration, the L/R band would be rarelyused in the fwd position, only in rev. That limited use is probably why the band adjustment is internal, compared to the ext adjustment of the front band which is continually in use in D.
 
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