There was a lot of good W2 info on a sale thread. 
Let's talk about them here instead.
Let's talk about them here instead.
W2's
- Thread starter toolmanmike
- Start date
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Looks like a ported intake there.
IMO, they’re still a good head to consider with weight being the big draw back. It doesn’t take a ton of work to make them flow very well.
They’re about $650 a head, bare, new. While some complain and cry about having to equip the head with valves and gear, if your seriously building power, most aftermarket heads will need there pathetic springs replaced anyway.
I’d like to know how is doing what for valves other than the 3/8 valves.
IMO, they’re still a good head to consider with weight being the big draw back. It doesn’t take a ton of work to make them flow very well.
They’re about $650 a head, bare, new. While some complain and cry about having to equip the head with valves and gear, if your seriously building power, most aftermarket heads will need there pathetic springs replaced anyway.
I’d like to know how is doing what for valves other than the 3/8 valves.
Did anybody cast the design in aluminum?
Yes, Batten and Diamond.
Super hard to find.
Super hard to find.
Locomotion
Well-Known Member
Glidden had W-2s on his Arrow but he basically re-engineered everything anyway to get the most out of it.
Heads worked well. I ran them on my Challengers through the '80's & '90's. Went a best of 10.22 @ 131 footbraking with the heads being ported with a Direct Connection porting template kit. weighing around 2,800 lbs w/driver. With what I know now and switching to a 904, I probably could have gotten it into the 9's without much trouble.
My opinion on their drawbacks are the extra expense of offset valve gear, especially when getting into offsetting and raising the shafts for longer stem valves. Exhaust adapters/headers also added to the costs over conventional heads.
Heads worked well. I ran them on my Challengers through the '80's & '90's. Went a best of 10.22 @ 131 footbraking with the heads being ported with a Direct Connection porting template kit. weighing around 2,800 lbs w/driver. With what I know now and switching to a 904, I probably could have gotten it into the 9's without much trouble.
My opinion on their drawbacks are the extra expense of offset valve gear, especially when getting into offsetting and raising the shafts for longer stem valves. Exhaust adapters/headers also added to the costs over conventional heads.
Good mention on the adapter plates. TTI makes headers with ether bolt spacing for what ever head you have.
The offset rockers are available. But as anything off set, it can be a little pricey depending on manufacturer.
TD & Jesel are pricey but worth it if you’re racing.
Harlan sharp is a fine rocker for the street.
Adjusting the rocker shaft system for proper height and geometry always has been a PIA.
I’ve seen pictures of these oval port heads ported into huge rectangle and squares. That is the maximum effort port with no care or consideration to any rpm under 5K or better.
The offset rockers are available. But as anything off set, it can be a little pricey depending on manufacturer.
TD & Jesel are pricey but worth it if you’re racing.
Harlan sharp is a fine rocker for the street.
Adjusting the rocker shaft system for proper height and geometry always has been a PIA.
I’ve seen pictures of these oval port heads ported into huge rectangle and squares. That is the maximum effort port with no care or consideration to any rpm under 5K or better.
EdsWelding
Well-Known Member
Has anyone ever seen pics of the heads that Bob Glidden ran on his Arrow ? I remember he set a record the very first time he had the new car out ! Bob Glidden had to be one of the very best as he did almost everything himself with his family. I would really like to see what castings he used and what was done to them. I know there's his 351 Cleveland stuff still around to see, wonder what happened to the 340/W-2 stuff ?
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
Let see…drawbacks to W2 heads.
They are iron.
Intake ports are small for anything over about 360 inches and definitely too damn small if you want to make power at 8k plus.
The exhaust port/valve is on the big side for most everything. You have to deal with that. Making the exhaust port bigger is a guaranteed power killer. But it will look great on a flow sheet.
There are basically three manifolds. The Strip Dominator, the MP tunnel ram which has serious plenum issues and the Holley Pro Dominator. Good luck finding any one of those. I paid $850 for my PD and was glad to do it.
18 degree valve angle and low port angle makes getting the short turn/valve job tricky at best. Chrysler tried to address with with the W5 but it’s was marginally better than the W2 when it could have been far better. Thats what the W7 did.
The good about the W2?
Port cross section. The intake port is substantially better than any other conventional head out there. That includes the Speed Master, Trick Flow and any other head that uses a conventional intake rocker arm. Flow numbers be damned, not ONE of those heads will ever make the power of a W2. Ever.
Offset intake rocker. I know this is hard to swallow but GET OVER IT. If you want to make horsepower, and you are trying to do it with a head that uses a standard intake rocker you might as well smash your balls with a hammer for a while. You’ll get the same results.
That non-offset rocker gets the pushrod right in the way. Contrary to all the guru’s who say the pushrod pinch doesn’t matter, the science and the industry says it sure as hell does.
Go find ANY cylinder head designed to make horsepower and I double damn guarantee you it won’t have a giant pushrod pinch. Chrysler got it. That’s why the T/A head used an offset rocker and moved pushrod. They we’re NOT idiots. They got it. And the W2 was the next development along those lines.
So stop bitching about offset rockers and realize that’s how you make horsepower.
Along those lines, the milled stands and block rocker system is FAR better than the saddle style rocker mounts. It’s not even close.
I was dumbfounded when Indy produced cylinder heads and used a saddle. What a stupid waste. There just isn’t enough support with the saddle mounts.
The W2 uses offset blocks and shafts so you can get the geometry correct AND have room for a decent valve spring. You can do close to the same with the B3 correction kit, but at high RPM the block system is far more stable.
The exhaust port is a good shape. As I said above, it’s right on the edge of being too big. Any grinding on the exhaust port needs to be at the very minimum or you’ll kill power.
Thats about all I can think of right now. For all its faults, the W2 is STILL the king of low port, 18 degree small block Chrysler heads.
It’s sad that over the decades guys just never got past the offset rocker nonsense. And it STILL prevails today. And that’s sad. And stupid.
They are iron.
Intake ports are small for anything over about 360 inches and definitely too damn small if you want to make power at 8k plus.
The exhaust port/valve is on the big side for most everything. You have to deal with that. Making the exhaust port bigger is a guaranteed power killer. But it will look great on a flow sheet.
There are basically three manifolds. The Strip Dominator, the MP tunnel ram which has serious plenum issues and the Holley Pro Dominator. Good luck finding any one of those. I paid $850 for my PD and was glad to do it.
18 degree valve angle and low port angle makes getting the short turn/valve job tricky at best. Chrysler tried to address with with the W5 but it’s was marginally better than the W2 when it could have been far better. Thats what the W7 did.
The good about the W2?
Port cross section. The intake port is substantially better than any other conventional head out there. That includes the Speed Master, Trick Flow and any other head that uses a conventional intake rocker arm. Flow numbers be damned, not ONE of those heads will ever make the power of a W2. Ever.
Offset intake rocker. I know this is hard to swallow but GET OVER IT. If you want to make horsepower, and you are trying to do it with a head that uses a standard intake rocker you might as well smash your balls with a hammer for a while. You’ll get the same results.
That non-offset rocker gets the pushrod right in the way. Contrary to all the guru’s who say the pushrod pinch doesn’t matter, the science and the industry says it sure as hell does.
Go find ANY cylinder head designed to make horsepower and I double damn guarantee you it won’t have a giant pushrod pinch. Chrysler got it. That’s why the T/A head used an offset rocker and moved pushrod. They we’re NOT idiots. They got it. And the W2 was the next development along those lines.
So stop bitching about offset rockers and realize that’s how you make horsepower.
Along those lines, the milled stands and block rocker system is FAR better than the saddle style rocker mounts. It’s not even close.
I was dumbfounded when Indy produced cylinder heads and used a saddle. What a stupid waste. There just isn’t enough support with the saddle mounts.
The W2 uses offset blocks and shafts so you can get the geometry correct AND have room for a decent valve spring. You can do close to the same with the B3 correction kit, but at high RPM the block system is far more stable.
The exhaust port is a good shape. As I said above, it’s right on the edge of being too big. Any grinding on the exhaust port needs to be at the very minimum or you’ll kill power.
Thats about all I can think of right now. For all its faults, the W2 is STILL the king of low port, 18 degree small block Chrysler heads.
It’s sad that over the decades guys just never got past the offset rocker nonsense. And it STILL prevails today. And that’s sad. And stupid.
gzig5
Well-Known Member
I think one downside of the W2 is the reported propensity to crack. I don't know what percentage it affects, but I know it isn't an old wive's tale. I think it was fixed in the later castings? I know that I considered this when I had access to a set of early heads at a good price. I was hesitant to put all the porting work and bespoke parts into a part that had a chance of leaking. I still want a set and if I find the right vintage and configuration, I'll get them. That's another downside is knowing exactly what version you are getting. There are a lot of options and the PN's don't seem to be well defined on the heads.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
The later casting are crack prone. ANY iron head ported to its limits is crack prone.
I still have my original W2 heads that made almost 2 HP/CID with. I did everything I could to make them run as long as I could. They just outlived their useful service life.
They are door stops now, and a reminder how to not port W2 heads in stages.
You never will. As Bob said everything is stored in the barn and if your name is not Glidden, you are not getting in. This includes parts modified that didn’t work well. Even now that he has passed, I still doubt anyone will see them.
Locomotion
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure Glidden sold his car to Paul Gentilozzi when he went back to Ford but I don't know how much, if any, of his other parts were included.
9secRR
Well-Known Member
So far I’ve been 9.70 at 137 @ 2880 lbs with my 362” W2 engine. Still more in it but I’m done chasing ET.
The W2 is tough to beat, I’ve run W2’s since 2009 and doubt I’ll run anything else. They simply make power. Can’t argue with the results.
I don’t care that W2’s are iron. Nonsense to even argue the aluminum vs iron debate. If you have both exhaust bolt patterns, LA headers fit and I’ve ran LA headers for many years. Been in the 9’s with LA headers bolted to W2 heads. The 2nd picture is LA headers and finally I built a set of W2 headers in the 3rd picture.
I don’t have fancy rockers, ductile iron rockers that see 7500 rpm all day long and never miss a beat. Been running these rockers for years.
Not much to complain about if you ask me.
The W2 is tough to beat, I’ve run W2’s since 2009 and doubt I’ll run anything else. They simply make power. Can’t argue with the results.
I don’t care that W2’s are iron. Nonsense to even argue the aluminum vs iron debate. If you have both exhaust bolt patterns, LA headers fit and I’ve ran LA headers for many years. Been in the 9’s with LA headers bolted to W2 heads. The 2nd picture is LA headers and finally I built a set of W2 headers in the 3rd picture.
I don’t have fancy rockers, ductile iron rockers that see 7500 rpm all day long and never miss a beat. Been running these rockers for years.
Not much to complain about if you ask me.
Nice!
W2's work with alcohol too. And 318's. I just posted this in another thread. + .030 318, W2's, Enderle Injected/methanol, 5500 stall, Glide, 4.88's in a 9", 2750 with driver.
Ran 9.95 @ 135W2's work with alcohol too. And 318's. I just posted this in another thread. + .030 318, W2's, Enderle Injected/methanol, 5500 stall, Glide, 4.88's in a 9", 2750 with driver.
Bobzilla
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know (no guessing) how close the Indy head is to the W2 in terms of short turn shape and size, minimum cross sectional area, and power potential?
I have no experience with either head in any form and would just like to know.
I have no experience with either head in any form and would just like to know.
Good question. @pittsburghracer, have you ever messed with W2's?
What was the rest of the combo? Cubes, cam, compression and gears?
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
There wasn’t (and isnt) a damned thing wrong with those ductile iron rockers. The only complaint I had was they weren’t available in 1.6 ratio.
They are virtually indestructible.
There has always been (at least years ago) many rocker choices for the W2. It wasn’t like you couldn’t get something.
Guys just have a mental hurdle getting over the offset rocker. Since I love horsepower I couldn’t care less about buying an offset rocker.
9secRR
Well-Known Member
Mental hurdle…… that’s so true.
I have a set of mopar performance blue 1.5 rockers on the shelf. I just can’t take off the old reliable ductile iron rockers off. They work so good and I check valve lash once a season. Very dependable rocker.
I agree, the mopar world would be a better place if the w2 had become commonplace
Locomotion
Well-Known Member
* Holley W-2 Strip Dominator intake w/2" 4-hole spacer
* Holley 750 double pump 4779 w/K&N Stub Stack
* Cam may have been Cam Dynamics .575"/.575" solid lifters (Tried variety of similar lift Mopar & Crower cams during those years but don't recall more details.)
* Compression in the 11.5 - 12.0 range with heavy DC pistons. (May have been using Direct Connection 355 3.454" stroke pistons cut down for 3.59 crank.)
* Low tension rings.
* W-2 heads home-ported with w/Direct Connection porting templates.
* Harland Sharp 1.5 roller rockers
* OEM rods
* OEM stock stroke crank
* Ed Hamburger aluminum pan w/tray & scraper.
* JW 727 Torqueflite footbraking.
* 4200 stall converter
* 5.13 Dana 60
* 14x32 slicks
* 2x3 frame w/ladder bars & coil springs
Locomotion
Well-Known Member
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