Alternator Relocation to avoid frame rail

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KosmicKuda

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DIY Hemi (now Sublime) posted a video where they used a 2005-06 Jeep alternator on their car timing cover. See picture of the red E-body. The boss is already on the cover and there is another lower bolt that they don't show. This was on an early 2006 (?) Engine.

I emailed them and asked if this works on a later VVT engine because the front of the block is longer than the 03-08. Mike finally answered back and said it is not a direct bolt-on but it has been done. He had no further info.

I recently dropped my 2014 5.7 into my 68 cuda with TTI spool mounts for a trial fit and there definitely is interference. Other pic.

I have absolutely no problem cutting the lip off the rail and rewelding but before I do that I thought I'd ask if anybody has used the Jeep alternator trick on a 2009 and newer engine?

I hate to source a Jeep alternator and find out it won't work. I know in my case the upper thru boss they used would have to be drilled through as mine is blind. There is a tapped lower hole already there.

Keeping the alternator that came on my engine in stock location has these advantages for me:
1. Alternator only has 12,000 miles on it.
2. More common and easier to find if I'm out of state and need one fast.
3. Don't need to source yet another part. I'm constantly buying parts for this project.

Raised advantages:
1. There is more room between the alternator and K-member for remote oil filter hose routing.
2. I like that it gets the alternator a little higher away from road spray even if it is only an inch.

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I can’t help much other than the 09 and 10 motors are VVT and I am pretty sure share the pulley spacing off the front of the motor with the non-VVT motors. So, in theory, you might be able to run the early alternator if you swap the water pump and crank pulley.

One unknown is the timing chain cover. Not sure if the 09-10 cover is different than the 11+ one.

Curious to see how this plays out. I will need a solution to this as well as I don’t want to have to cut my frame when I do my swap.

I’ve seen swaps that didn’t have an issue, and others that did. I theorized that it was the amp output of the alternator and that the lower output was a smaller case. But it’s just an idea, haven’t looked into it other than to verify there were different alternators available.
 
Did some searches on a Mopar parts site and the parts that came up show a different cover for 2014+ and 2009-2013. Not sure what the difference is, but the water pump interchange seems to have the same cut off.

Based on Holley’s swap parts there are 2 spacing, 4.34” and 4.82”.

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But the alternator works for 2008-2010, so the spacing must overlap between the VVT and non-VVT motors for those years.
 
Be careful using 2010 model year for info. The 6.1 carried past the introduction of the 2009 vvt engines, and the 6.1 was NEVER vvt.

I would expect any non vvt car engine to have one belt path, and the vvt car engines to have another.

The 6.1 hemi throws off some search engines, and/or customers get themselves in trouble assuming a 2010 water pump or damper is instantly one from a vvt.

If your timing cover has that upper "swing" boss, and if that gets you to the vvt belt spacing is the question. If your alternator bolts to the timing cover via the 3 bolts on the side, I would think you need a vvt spacing alt also. But I don't know for fact, and obviously you have the pinch lip issue as is.

You also didn't note if your engine is from a truck, or car/jeep, unless I missed it. I assume car, since you have the alternator lower passenger, but may help clarify.

Just some facts to maybe use in your search.
Hopefully it helps. Good luck!!!
 
Be careful using 2010 model year for info. The 6.1 carried past the introduction of the 2009 vvt engines, and the 6.1 was NEVER vvt.

I would expect any non vvt car engine to have one belt path, and the vvt car engines to have another.

The 6.1 hemi throws off some search engines, and/or customers get themselves in trouble assuming a 2010 water pump or damper is instantly one from a vvt.

Agreed. I just know of people that had issues when working on 5.7’s and that the early ones in the Challengers use different parts than the later ones. This was from a Challenger forum where a guy was complaining about the fact that his ‘10 caused him all kinds of grief.

Based on RockAuto, the 2009 6.1 uses the same water pump as the ‘08 and older 5.7. The 2009 and 2010 5.7 uses a different water pump than the 6.1 and is only applicable to those years, and the 2011+ 5.7 uses a different pump. At the same time, the alternator for a 5.7 works for ‘08-10, crossing over the VVT change.

Based on that, I believe when the VVT motor was first designed, the pulley spacing was maintained with the earlier non-VVT motor even though all the parts are different. When the 6.4 was released, the pulley spacing changed for some reason and the change was applied to the 5.7 at the same time. So the ‘09 and ‘10 5.7 is kind of a bastard for parts.
 
The engine is out of a wrecked 2014 Challenger so yes, pass car cover with 3 bolt alternator.

Yes, it does have the "swing boss" but the hole is untapped and blind. Easy enough to drill through. I've looked at pictures of the Jeep alternator on Rockauto and it shows a lower through hole which may line up with a tapped hole in the cover. (Pencil in lower hole)

I'm keeping the stock PS delete bracket and idler pulley that came with the engine. (2014 Challengers have electric steering) so I don't want to change the belt path.

Right now, the easy solution is to cut, weld and grind as shown by MMissile. I marked the rail already. I've actually seen a car where the builder carried that cut all the way forward to the core support. AND, he duplicated it on the left side to make it symmetrical!

Now I'm curious if it will work. i may see if I can find a cheap one just to check it out.

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aeicnc.com makes this mount for a denso alt. ive ram it for over 2yrs no issues with it at all. motor plate has zero effect for alignment or moving pulley alignment.

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DIY Hemi (now Sublime) posted a video where they used a 2005-06 Jeep alternator on their car timing cover. See picture of the red E-body. The boss is already on the cover and there is another lower bolt that they don't show. This was on an early 2006 (?) Engine.

I emailed them and asked if this works on a later VVT engine because the front of the block is longer than the 03-08. Mike finally answered back and said it is not a direct bolt-on but it has been done. He had no further info.

I recently dropped my 2014 5.7 into my 68 cuda with TTI spool mounts for a trial fit and there definitely is interference. Other pic.

I have absolutely no problem cutting the lip off the rail and rewelding but before I do that I thought I'd ask if anybody has used the Jeep alternator trick on a 2009 and newer engine?

I hate to source a Jeep alternator and find out it won't work. I know in my case the upper thru boss they used would have to be drilled through as mine is blind. There is a tapped lower hole already there.

Keeping the alternator that came on my engine in stock location has these advantages for me:
1. Alternator only has 12,000 miles on it.
2. More common and easier to find if I'm out of state and need one fast.
3. Don't need to source yet another part. I'm constantly buying parts for this project.

Raised advantages:
1. There is more room between the alternator and K-member for remote oil filter hose routing.
2. I like that it gets the alternator a little higher away from road spray even if it is only an inch.

View attachment 1716041763

View attachment 1716041764

I don't understand why they made a video to show an alternator that is space savings, but didn't actually measure the difference. I had planned on trying to find a jeep alternator from a pull a part around here, (which is nearly impossible to find hemis in junkyards around me), or I was going to buy a new one and return it if the space savings wasn't worth it. Some quick internet searching tells me the E-body frame rail is approximately 7/8" wider (per side) than an A body. Based on that info, I'm not seeing a ton of space savings.
 
I don't believe there is an "early 09+ bastard spacing" that was on a vvt hemi, but doesn't match the other vvt engines. I could be wrong....but I have only seen vvt, and non vvt. Now car vs truck..sure, but other than the 6.1 throwing off the vvt years, I haven't seen a "3rd" spacing on hemi's.
 
The engine is out of a wrecked 2014 Challenger so yes, pass car cover with 3 bolt alternator.

Yes, it does have the "swing boss" but the hole is untapped and blind. Easy enough to drill through. I've looked at pictures of the Jeep alternator on Rockauto and it shows a lower through hole which may line up with a tapped hole in the cover. (Pencil in lower hole)

I'm keeping the stock PS delete bracket and idler pulley that came with the engine. (2014 Challengers have electric steering) so I don't want to change the belt path.

Right now, the easy solution is to cut, weld and grind as shown by MMissile. I marked the rail already. I've actually seen a car where the builder carried that cut all the way forward to the core support. AND, he duplicated it on the left side to make it symmetrical!

Now I'm curious if it will work. i may see if I can find a cheap one just to check it out.

View attachment 1716042278

View attachment 1716042279

I’m looking at your picture and wondering why making a couple small pieces of plate to raise the alternator slightly higher than the position you have it in won’t work. I was looking at my timing cover and alternator tonight and it seems like it would be fairly easy to make.
 
I must have two unicorns. I've personally done two A body gen 3 swaps. A 74 Swinger and a 73 Scamp. NIETHER needed frame notching for alternator. Both were pre VVT. The Swinger is gone, but, kept the 6.1 based engine. The Scamp has had pre VVT 5.7, a VVT 5.7, and now a 6.1. Maybe the spool mount k is the mystery? Idk. Have done an E body and a B body also. They sure as hell didn't need clearance for alternator. A friend of mine is doing an 01 Dakota. Using a pre VVT block and LX/Jeep front cover. He did the Jeep alternator deal. Sucks it up and in towards the cover. When you're splitting hairs, the Jeep junk works. Definitely a spacing difference in the VVT vs. Non VVT. Agree with Johnny, ain't no bastard ****. It's VVT or it ain't.
 
I don't believe there is an "early 09+ bastard spacing" that was on a vvt hemi, but doesn't match the other vvt engines. I could be wrong....but I have only seen vvt, and non vvt. Now car vs truck..sure, but other than the 6.1 throwing off the vvt years, I haven't seen a "3rd" spacing on hemi's.

To be clear, I’m not saying there was a “3rd” spacing. I am saying that (I think) the VVT motors didn’t always have the same spacing and that the 09 and 10 5.7 had the same spacing as the non-VVT 5.7 and 6.1. Just two spacings.

Not going to die on this hill, just saying that there appears to be evidence to support my theory (e.g. alternator that fits both VVT and non-VVT).
 
Looks like the trucks might have had a non-VVT and VVT spacing. I wasn’t thinking of or looking at the truck, was focused on the cars. That might be partly why some have never seen a VVT belt spacing “outlier”.

ATI sells one dampener for a non-VVT truck and one for a VVT truck, supporting the idea that the spacing is one or the other. At the same time, they sell a car dampener for the 05-08 5.7, 09-10 5.7 and the 11+ 5.7. Not definitive proof, but fits my theory and doesn’t disprove it.

ATI Super Dampers for Chrysler, Dodge and Mopar Engines - including the new HEMI!
 
And RockAuto shows a power steering pump that fits the 5.7 Charger from 06-10 and the 300 from 2005-2010, crossing the VVT introduction line.
 
Looks like the trucks might have had a non-VVT and VVT spacing. I wasn’t thinking of or looking at the truck, was focused on the cars. That might be partly why some have never seen a VVT belt spacing “outlier”.

ATI sells one dampener for a non-VVT truck and one for a VVT truck, supporting the idea that the spacing is one or the other. At the same time, they sell a car dampener for the 05-08 5.7, 09-10 5.7 and the 11+ 5.7. Not definitive proof, but fits my theory and doesn’t disprove it.

ATI Super Dampers for Chrysler, Dodge and Mopar Engines - including the new HEMI!
Different OD. Underdriver/overdrive ratios. We use a 5.7 vvt damper on a 6.4 daily. Bolts right on. Different size OD
And RockAuto shows a power steering pump that fits the 5.7 Charger from 06-10 and the 300 from 2005-2010, crossing the VVT introduction line.
Those bolt to the head. Maybe non vvt heads stick out more than vvt heads, or vice versa.
Weird. Prochanger lists their kit for 2006-2010 Charger 5.7’s.

2010-2006 CHARGER R/T (5.7)
Probably just needs a few spacers to eat the belt spacing up. One of Our front pulley suppliers offer a single kit for both, with spacers for vvt.

Like you said, not arguing, or anything at all. All friendly here. Just trying to help you. Chrysler never made anything easy. That's for sure. ! Good luck
 
Just compared 06 jeep to 06 car belt length. The Jeep belt is .41" shorter. If all other pulleys are the same diameter and the only difference is the alternator mounting location. I'm going to go off on a limb and say it doesn't pull it in much.
 
I’m looking at your picture and wondering why making a couple small pieces of plate to raise the alternator slightly higher than the position you have it in won’t work. I was looking at my timing cover and alternator tonight and it seems like it would be fairly easy to make.
I have a 1/4" aluminum plate I could use but I prefer to keep things neat and simple. Cut to shape and 6 holes should do it.

In all the history of Hot Rod engine swaps (Caddy engine in 51 Ford, that kind of stuff) Shaving a frame flange 6" is very minor and this lowly 318 car will never go back to stock. It's not like moving a steering box or reshaping an oil pan. And it's a weight reduction!

But then there's the T-bar crossmember/Tremec interference.
 
I have a 1/4" aluminum plate I could use but I prefer to keep things neat and simple. Cut to shape and 6 holes should do it.

In all the history of Hot Rod engine swaps (Caddy engine in 51 Ford, that kind of stuff) Shaving a frame flange 6" is very minor and this lowly 318 car will never go back to stock. It's not like moving a steering box or reshaping an oil pan. And it's a weight reduction!

But then there's the T-bar crossmember/Tremec interference.
Understood, and I have no problem cutting my car for clearance. The problem is the car is already painted. Not that I couldn't just spot paint that one location, it's more about the additional time my car will be down when I start the swap.
 
Different OD. Underdriver/overdrive ratios. We use a 5.7 vvt damper on a 6.4 daily. Bolts right on. Different size OD

Could be, but the offerings from ATI show the same ratios for the 09-10 5.7 and the 11+ 5.7 and 6.4. The 18% overdrive even uses the same shell with a different hub. If the 09-10 5.7 had the same offset, why offer a different part?

Funny that you are using a 5.7 dampener on a 6.4. I was planning to go the other way since I have to swap the front of my motor since it from a truck. :)

Those bolt to the head. Maybe non vvt heads stick out more than vvt heads, or vice versa.

If so, the Eagle head swap would cause problems for the PS pump. And Holley PS swap kits use different thickness plates for the different offsets. If the cylinder head made the difference, they probably wouldn’t need too change the plate thickness.

Probably just needs a few spacers to eat the belt spacing up. One of Our front pulley suppliers offer a single kit for both, with spacers for vvt.

I wondered the same thing so I read the install directions. Nothing to say use xxxx spacers with an ‘08 down 5.7 and xxxx with an 09-10 5.7.

Chrysler never made anything easy. That's for sure.

Nope! If it was easy, everyone would do it. :D
 
FYI...

2010 Challenger 5.7 and 6.1 both use the same AC compressor, one part number being VALEO 815626. Which happens to be the same compressor used on the Chargers from '06-10.

The only issue with the part number search is that RockAuto shows a Mopar compressor for an '09-10 model years, but does not show them as available for the non-VVT 5.7. And the part numbers for the '09 5.7 are different than the 2010, but most of the available part numbers for the 2010 match what is shown for the 2008 Charger.

Based on the fact that in 2010, the 5.7 and the 6.1 used the same compressor, I would bet they use the same belt offset as well despite one being VVT and the other not. Either that or the block for an '09-10 5.7 is different than the '11+ 5.7's to move the rear mount boss forward. Don't think that is the case.
 
I've been struggling with routing the oil lines to a remote oil filter I'm hoping to locate on the right side frame rail between the rad and the front of the strut rod. I'm using TTI spool mounts on a 73-76 A-body. The problem is getting (2) -10 hoses past the stock 2014 alternator. I was willing to try the Jeep alternator because it mounts slightly higher and inboard.

Well...I ordered the Jeep alternator from E-bay and it arrived yesterday. It sat half a rainy day on the front porch and was damaged in shipment by Fedex. The output stud was bent, rendering it unusable. I offered it up on the engine right before bedtime and went to bed hopeful I could make it work. The box includes a sheet showing the tested alternator output.

This afternoon I took a closer look. It still interfered with my 68 A-body frame rail though not as much as the 2014 VVT alternator. The actual interference was only the underlying piece of steel that forms the rail flange. I zipped that off so it was flush with the upper layer of metal. That was just enough for the alternator to mount flush with the mounting bosses.

The pulley did not line up with the water pump pulley. I did my best to measure the offset and came up with 0.48 - 0.54. I currently have the damper removed so was only able to put a straight edge across the water pump pulley. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I remember the difference between the early blocks, and the VVT blocks being .545. But I'm not 100% sure that is the number.

My plan was to remove the front cover, and set up an appointment with my son on a Saturday to mill the rear surface of the upper mounting boss by my determined dimension. The green tape in one picture shows the area to be removed. This would effectively move the alternator forward to align the pulleys. I would also make 2 round spacers, 1" O.D. x 13/32" I.D. (10mm mounting bolts) to fill the 2 spaces when the alt moves forward. One bad thing is the milling MAY break through a cored out area on the front of the cover.

The output stud on the Jeep is higher and in a different location so it increases clearance with the oil piping. The small alt connector is different than the newer alternator so that has to be changed in the wire harness. It is easier to mount as the 2 bolts insert from the front and there is ample room. (The VVT alternator bolts are side mounted and the 2 lower ones are long enough to interfere with the frame rail so don't allow removal) The upper mounting boss on the cover needs to be drilled through to provide clearance for the thru bolt that threads into the upper ear on the alternator. The lower bolt thread into the cover.

I was on a roll with the wheel of death so cut the frame flange back to within 1/4" of the vertical face. This allowed me to actually mount the 2014 alt to the engine for the first time.

With both variations, I still do not have a definitive oil line routing! I have an assortment of 3/8" NPT 45* and 90* elbows and -10 fittings. It's perplexing because I spent a good part of my engineering career cramming 10 lbs of stuff in a 5 lb bag.

I'll take another look tomorrow (after maybe yet another trip to the hardware store) but right now I'm leaning to the standard alternator.
I just need to get the oil lines routed.

Side note: About 10 yrs ago I put the 73-76 K frame in the car cause I was thinking 451 Stroker with Schumacher mounts. I fully welded the K, reinforced it, sandblasted and painted it silver POR because it was supposed to be more durable than the black. Well it's holding up well but the black Rustoleum topcoat is flaking off. It'll come out when I paint the engine compartment.

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The pulley did not line up with the water pump pulley. I did my best to measure the offset and came up with 0.48 - 0.54. I currently have the damper removed so was only able to put a straight edge across the water pump pulley. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I remember the difference between the early blocks, and the VVT blocks being .545. But I'm not 100% sure that is the number.

Holley's documentation shows .48" difference.

damper_spacing_gen_iii_hemi_97-382.jpg
 
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