Rocker oiling

[Newbomb Turk]

Before Pittsburghracer passed we had talked about rocker oiling. He posted some pictures of how he does it.

I now have some pictures of how I do it. Slightly different than John did it but it’s close to the same.

Of course, I can’t find the thread where he posted the pictures to compare them, but you can see what I do IF I want full time oil to the rockers. And if you don’t want to feed the rockers off of oil that should be going to the connecting rods.

Here you can see I’ve drilled and tapped an 1/8th pipe hole in the vertical oil feed to the pressure gauge. I use #4 AN fittings and push lock hose.

In this picture you can see I drilled and tapped the oil feeds to the head. What you can’t see is when I installed the cam bearings, I clocked the two and four bearings so that there is no hole open to the feed from the main bearing or to the oil feed to the heads.

Once the bearings are in, I drill a 9/32 hole up through the block from the main bearing side up through the cam bearings. If you look close you’ll notice I also drilled up through the bearing and the block. I then tapped that hole 5/16. I’ll explain that in a bit. Make DAMN SURE you deburr the bearings.

If you do not clock and redrill the bearings you will have oil coming off the mains and from your feed hose.
One of the goals of this is to stop feeding the rockers from oil off the main bearings. That’s oil that should be going to the connecting rods.

Once the holes are drilled, you can make up your hoses as shown in the pictures. I use hose because this stuff moves around and I’m not a fan of hard lines in a place like this.

Since the cam bearings are clocked so no holes line up either for the feed from the main bearing or the feed to the heads, the hoses supply all the oil to the rockers ALL THE TIME. You MUST install a restricters in the system somewhere, especially if you have needle bearing rockers. In fact most rockers want and need a restriction but needle bearing rockers need less oil than a bushed or plain aluminum rocker will need.

When I install the restricters in my stuff I’ll take some pictures and post them.

I have a length of 2 inch by 3/16 aluminum that will be bolted down at the two and four cam bearings. That way, any oil slinging off the cam lobes will hit the aluminum and stay on the cam.

If you look close you’ll can see Chrysler left two openings between the lifters that lets oil go back to the pan.

I’m going to use a two part epoxy or some splash zone to fill those up so no oil can get through them.

Once they are blocked off the oil either has to stack up in the lifter valley until it will go into the timing cover or it must go to the rear and get to the sump there.

Once the oil finds its level it will always be there.

That’s what I do if I want full time oil to the rockers.

Also, this block has been tubed on the passenger side so the oil is blocked off to the lifters. The drivers side is blocked off by a 5/16 set screw under the number one main bearings. Again, this stops the leaks at the lifters and that makes more oil available to the mains and rods.

Also note that I used the vertical oil feed to the oil pressure gauge to feed the rockers. I could have picked the oil up from the passenger side lifter gallery but that is still taking oil that should be going to the rods.

The other reason for using that gallery is because I know if I have 40 pounds on the gauge I’ll have 40 pounds or very close to it at the rockers.

The way Chrysler did it, the rockers suck hind tit and get oil last. I put a gauge on the rocker shafts a long time ago and you’d see almost no oil pressure at the rockers at idle. That’s bad.

That’s how I get full time oil to the rockers and limit the oil leaks at the lifters and force as much of the oil as I can to go to the bearings.

Edit: if you are not comfortable drilling holes in places as above, get a scrap block and practice up until you get good and comfortable.

You can jack up a block right quick. This particular block is an X block and even I got a bit sweaty drilling and tapping an expensive block.

If you dick up the block it’s damn hard and near impossible to fix so practice up on junk blocks first.

 

[MOPARMAGA]

Before Pittsburghracer passed we had talked about rocker oiling. He posted some pictures of how he does it.

I now have some pictures of how I do it. Slightly different than John did it but it’s close to the same.

Of course, I can’t find the thread where he posted the pictures to compare them, but you can see what I do IF I want full time oil to the rockers. And if you do t want to feed the rockers off of oil that should be going to the connecting rods.View attachment 1716372121

Here you can see I’ve drilled and tapped an 1/8th pipe hole in the vertical oil feed to the pressure gauge. I use #4 AN fittings and push lock hose.


View attachment 1716372122

In this picture you can see I drilled and tapped the oil feeds to the head. What you can’t see is when I installed the cam bearings, I clocked the two and four bearings so that there is no hole open to the feed from the main bearing or to the oil feed to the heads.

Once the bearings are in, I drill a 9/32 hole up through the block from the main bearing side up through the cam bearings. If you look close you’ll notice I also drilled up through the bearing and the block. I then tapped that hole 5/16. I’ll explain that in a bit. Make DAMN SURE you deburr the bearings.

If you do not clock and redrill the bearings you will have oil coming off the mains and from your feed hose.
One of the goals of this is to stop feeding the rockers from oil off the main bearings. That’s oil that should be going to the connecting rods.

Once the holes are drilled, you can make up your hoses as shown in the pictures. I use hose because this stuff moves around and I’m not a fan of hard lines in a place like this.

Since the cam bearings are clocked so no holes line up either for the feed from the main bearing or the feed to the heads, the hoses supply all the oil to the rockers ALL THE TIME. You MUST install a restricters in the system somewhere, especially if you have needle bearing rockers. In fact most rockers want and need a restriction but needle bearing rockers need less oil than a bushed or plain aluminum rocker will need.

I have a length of 2 inch by 3/16 aluminum that will be bolted down at the two and four cam bearings. That way, any oil slinging off the cam lobes will hit the aluminum and stay on the cam.

If you look close you’ll can see Chrysler left two openings between the lifters that lets oil go back to the pan.

I’m going to use a two part epoxy or some splash zone to fill those up so no oil can get through them.

Once they are blocked off the oil either has to stack up in the lifter valley until it will go into the timing cover or it must go to the rear and get to the sump there.

Once the oil finds its level it will always be there.

That’s what I do if I want full time oil to the rockers.

Also, this block has been tubed on the passenger side so the oil is blocked off to the lifters. The drivers side is blocked off by a 5/16 set screw under the number one main bearings. Again, this stops the leaks at the lifters and that makes more oil available to the mains and rods.

Also note that I used the vertical oil feed to the oil pressure gauge to feed the rockers. I could have picked the oil up from the passenger side lifter gallery but that is still taking oil that should be going to the rods.

The other reason for using that gallery is because I know if I have 40 pounds on the gauge I’ll have 40 pounds or very close to it at the rockers.

The way Chrysler did it, the rockers suck hind tit and get oil last. I put a gauge on the rocker shafts a long time ago and you’d see almost no oil pressure at the rockers at idle. That’s bad.

That’s how I get full time oil to the rockers and limit the oil leaks at the lifters and force as much of the oil as I can to go to the bearings.

Looks good dude & the way you explained it to me makes sense.

 

[Scody21]

Before Pittsburghracer passed we had talked about rocker oiling. He posted some pictures of how he does it.

I now have some pictures of how I do it. Slightly different than John did it but it’s close to the same.

Of course, I can’t find the thread where he posted the pictures to compare them, but you can see what I do IF I want full time oil to the rockers. And if you don’t want to feed the rockers off of oil that should be going to the connecting rods.View attachment 1716372121

Here you can see I’ve drilled and tapped an 1/8th pipe hole in the vertical oil feed to the pressure gauge. I use #4 AN fittings and push lock hose.


View attachment 1716372122

In this picture you can see I drilled and tapped the oil feeds to the head. What you can’t see is when I installed the cam bearings, I clocked the two and four bearings so that there is no hole open to the feed from the main bearing or to the oil feed to the heads.

Once the bearings are in, I drill a 9/32 hole up through the block from the main bearing side up through the cam bearings. If you look close you’ll notice I also drilled up through the bearing and the block. I then tapped that hole 5/16. I’ll explain that in a bit. Make DAMN SURE you deburr the bearings.

If you do not clock and redrill the bearings you will have oil coming off the mains and from your feed hose.
One of the goals of this is to stop feeding the rockers from oil off the main bearings. That’s oil that should be going to the connecting rods.

Once the holes are drilled, you can make up your hoses as shown in the pictures. I use hose because this stuff moves around and I’m not a fan of hard lines in a place like this.

Since the cam bearings are clocked so no holes line up either for the feed from the main bearing or the feed to the heads, the hoses supply all the oil to the rockers ALL THE TIME. You MUST install a restricters in the system somewhere, especially if you have needle bearing rockers. In fact most rockers want and need a restriction but needle bearing rockers need less oil than a bushed or plain aluminum rocker will need.

When I install the restricters in my stuff I’ll take some pictures and post them.

I have a length of 2 inch by 3/16 aluminum that will be bolted down at the two and four cam bearings. That way, any oil slinging off the cam lobes will hit the aluminum and stay on the cam.

If you look close you’ll can see Chrysler left two openings between the lifters that lets oil go back to the pan.

I’m going to use a two part epoxy or some splash zone to fill those up so no oil can get through them.

Once they are blocked off the oil either has to stack up in the lifter valley until it will go into the timing cover or it must go to the rear and get to the sump there.

Once the oil finds its level it will always be there.

That’s what I do if I want full time oil to the rockers.

Also, this block has been tubed on the passenger side so the oil is blocked off to the lifters. The drivers side is blocked off by a 5/16 set screw under the number one main bearings. Again, this stops the leaks at the lifters and that makes more oil available to the mains and rods.

Also note that I used the vertical oil feed to the oil pressure gauge to feed the rockers. I could have picked the oil up from the passenger side lifter gallery but that is still taking oil that should be going to the rods.

The other reason for using that gallery is because I know if I have 40 pounds on the gauge I’ll have 40 pounds or very close to it at the rockers.

The way Chrysler did it, the rockers suck hind tit and get oil last. I put a gauge on the rocker shafts a long time ago and you’d see almost no oil pressure at the rockers at idle. That’s bad.

That’s how I get full time oil to the rockers and limit the oil leaks at the lifters and force as much of the oil as I can to go to the bearings.

Edit: if you are not comfortable drilling holes in places as above, get a scrap block and practice up until you get good and comfortable.

You can jack up a block right quick. This particular block is an X block and even I got a bit sweaty drilling and tapping an expensive block.

If you dick up the block it’s damn hard and near impossible to fix so practice up on junk blocks first.

we use the small pilot drill after snap punching the center of the hole, then step up to a bigger drill bit. The block prep we do on the new blocks is about 6-8 hours, clearance for the crank throws, main webbing, opening up the oil pump passages, and drilling core plug retainer with 10/32 screws. One wrong move on the bottom of the cylinder hole and you F’d up a 2800 block…

 

[Garrett Ellison]

I don’t know if this may be of much help, but some cam bearing sets for magnum engines don’t have holes for rocker oiling. I especially like that that the valley stays flooded with oil and the majority of the drain back is kept off the crank.

 

[mopowers]

Can you post a photo of the aluminum pieces that shield the oil slinging off the cam?

 

[mopowers]

Are the lifters then just oiled with splash/drain back? I'm assuming that's only for solid lifter combos, right?

 

[Scody21]

How about some pinch clamps on that push on hose?

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Can you post a photo of the aluminum pieces that shield the oil slinging off the cam?

I will when I get it mounted.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

How about some pinch clamps on that push on hose?

Maybe. I haven’t had one blow off yet, so you probably just jinxed my happy *** lol.

 

[Garrett Ellison]

Are the lifters then just oiled with splash/drain back? I'm assuming that's only for solid lifter combos, right?

I would associate these modifications more in place for a solid roller setup, but they could also work for solid flat tappets. Definitely not for anything requiring lifter oiling, unless you wanted to feed them through the pushrods. I would think it would really bring out the best in a dry sump system.

 

[Scody21]

Maybe. I haven’t had one blow off yet, so you probably just jinxed my happy *** lol.

You’re welcome…. On McMaster Carr…

Edit, think these ones are for -6 hose

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Are the lifters then just oiled with splash/drain back? I'm assuming that's only for solid lifter combos, right?

The lifters get most of their oil from the oil coming off the connecting rods.

Oil gets thrown off the rods and onto the cam.

Also the plate I use to cover the opening over the cam will deflect the oil thrown off the cam itself back onto the cam as well.

Even though the cam turns half of crank speed, the amount of oil being slung off the cam at say 6000 rpm (3000 cam speed) is incredible. Putting that oil back on the cam rather than slinging it up into the lifter valley will increase available lubrication to the cam without taking the oil from somewhere else.

The added benefit of that is also you’re getting less hot oil being thrown on the bottom of the intake manifold.

 

[gzig5]

Nice writeup. It all makes sense to me except for the following part.

Once the bearings are in, I drill a 9/32 hole up through the block from the main bearing side up through the cam bearings. If you look close you’ll notice I also drilled up through the bearing and the block. I then tapped that hole 5/16. I’ll explain that in a bit. Make DAMN SURE you deburr the bearings.

The 5/16" threaded holes is what you mount the aluminum block-off plate to? Look like the standard holes they put in the Magnum blocks for the lifter spider so that is what block I thought you had until you said it was an X.

Is that 9/32 drill opening the passage from the main bearing to the cam bearing or is that chosen because it is the 5/16 tap drill size? Going all the way through saves another setup to put the threaded holes in from the top and there's no real need for it to go through the top of the bearing. Moot point because a screw will plug that hole.

Do you support the hose T in the middle with a bracket? I know that you use the rubber hose so it will flex, which is good, but that unsupported mass is a potential failure point from the hoses flexing. Fixing that in place will still allow the parts to move due to the rubber hose, but the natural frequency will be raised significantly and that frequency is where you get resonance which will significantly multiply the forces the parts are exposed to. I did a lot of HALT testing (highly accelerated life testing) on industrial automation equipment and motors. This is exactly the kind of thing that we would look for in our design reviews and testing. Not every application will expose the weakness, but some will. If you eliminate the weakness, the customer will be more happy.
Just a thought. May never be an issue in a race motor due to short run cycles, but that would be real liability in anything driven regularly.

One last thing. Anything stopping you from using this technique in a later Magnum block that doesn't have shaft oiling going to the heads? You should be able to drill down maybe an inch through where that passage normally would go to the cam bearing and then bring the line in? It would just be closer to the deck face and drilling an inch is a lot easier than going. About where that lump is?

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Nice writeup. It all makes sense to me except for the following part.

The 5/16" threaded holes is what you mount the aluminum block-off plate to? Look like the standard holes they put in the Magnum blocks for the lifter spider so that is what block I thought you had until you said it was an X.

Is that 9/32 drill opening the passage from the main bearing to the cam bearing or is that chosen because it is the 5/16 tap drill size? Going all the way through saves another setup to put the threaded holes in from the top and there's no real need for it to go through the top of the bearing. Moot point because a screw will plug that hole.

Do you support the hose T in the middle with a bracket? I know that you use the rubber hose so it will flex, which is good, but that unsupported mass is a potential failure point from the hoses flexing. Fixing that in place will still allow the parts to move due to the rubber hose, but the natural frequency will be raised significantly and that frequency is where you get resonance which will significantly multiply the forces the parts are exposed to. I did a lot of HALT testing (highly accelerated life testing) on industrial automation equipment and motors. This is exactly the kind of thing that we would look for in our design reviews and testing. Not every application will expose the weakness, but some will. If you eliminate the weakness, the customer will be more happy.
Just a thought. May never be an issue in a race motor due to short run cycles, but that would be real liability in anything driven regularly.

One last thing. Anything stopping you from using this technique in a later Magnum block that doesn't have shaft oiling going to the heads? You should be able to drill down maybe an inch through where that passage normally would go to the cam bearing and then bring the line in? It would just be closer to the deck face and drilling an inch is a lot easier than going. About where that lump is?
View attachment 1716372235

Yes, the threaded holes are used to hold the plate down.

I have never made a support for the hose, but now that you mention it I will.

I used to restrict the oil to the cam bearings to try and limit the leak around the bearings.

With the rpm I was running back then, I started seeing the bottom of the bearings getting beat up. So I stopped doing that. Really, the leak at the cam bearings is like the leaks at the rod bearings. It will only leak what the clearance allows. So I just use the drill size to get the hole I want to tap to hold the plate down.

Absolutely you could do exactly what you are suggesting to a magnum block. It would function the same way.

The only difference would be you wouldn’t have to clock the bearing to cover the gallery going to the head because it’s not drilled.

 

[DNasty777]

When you say you tubed the drivers side lifters gallery, does that mean you drilled and hammered in a copper tube, then broached the lifter bores?

 

[Newbomb Turk]

When you say you tubed the drivers side lifters gallery, does that mean you drilled and hammered in a copper tube, then broached the lifter bores?

Yes. But I do not press the tube in. I don’t know why Chrysler thinks it needs a press fit.

I use a slip fit. Once you peen the tube it can’t come out or leak.

I mean it can’t rattle around in there like socks on a rooster but a .003-.005 slip fit makes tubing the block a bunch easier.

 

[gzig5]

Yes. But I do not press the tube in. I don’t know why Chrysler thinks it needs a press fit.

I use a slip fit. Once you peen the tube it can’t come out or leak.

I mean it can’t rattle around in there like socks on a rooster but a .003-.005 slip fit makes tubing the block a bunch easier.

Yeah, I don't think I'd want to have a true press fit on a 10-12" piece of soft copper tube that has to be hammered all the way in. It would collapse before you got an inch or two in, even with a mirror finish on the bore of the hole. Even if it was line on line it would be a ***** because a drilled or even reamed hole is anything but smooth.

 

[mopowers]

Yes. But I do not press the tube in. I don’t know why Chrysler thinks it needs a press fit.

I use a slip fit. Once you peen the tube it can’t come out or leak.

I mean it can’t rattle around in there like socks on a rooster but a .003-.005 slip fit makes tubing the block a bunch easier.

What size drill and tube do you use?

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Yeah, I don't think I'd want to have a true press fit on a 10-12" piece of soft copper tube that has to be hammered all the way in. It would collapse before you got an inch or two in, even with a mirror finish on the bore of the hole. Even if it was line on line it would be a ***** because a drilled or even reamed hole is anything but smooth.

Plus the tubing is nominal. I was getting the tubing from somewhere back in the early 2000’s and it was .6250-.6265 IIRC.

When I finally ran out of that I bought some from McMaster-Carr and it was .6238-.6251 or close to that.

The reamer that came in the Chrysler kit I bought in 1988 to do a block had a reamer that was .624 so you ended up with a .001ish press fit.

I used it once. I loaned it out and the dude broke it.

And he never replaced it either.

 

[Garrett Ellison]

Well, that sucks!

 

[Bobzilla]

Videos of drill and tube process.

 

[TurboGLH]

When I did my setup, I made 3D printed drill guides for all 5 cam bearings. Drop the bearings on each and then drill with a 1/8" drill. Easier to deburr outside the motor.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

When I did my setup, I made 3D printed drill guides for all 5 cam bearings. Drop the bearings on each and then drill with a 1/8" drill. Easier to deburr outside the motor.

View attachment 1716374199View attachment 1716374200

Very cool.

How are you doing your oiling if you don’t mind my asking?

 

[TurboGLH]

Very cool.

How are you doing your oiling if you don’t mind my asking?

My setup is pretty close to what you're running.

Tubed passenger side, blocked off drivers side, mains feeds drilled out to 9/32, splash oiling only on the lifters. Cam bearings redrilled and flipped to block off oil to the heads.

I picked up my oil feed for the rockers differently, if I had thought about it more I probably would have done it the same way you're showing.

Instead I have a 0.080 feed hole coming from the passenger main oil galley, behind the fitting. It feeds the pass head and the crossover for the drivers head. Both heads have 0.030 restrictors, which is still probably too big. I get a LOT of oil up top.

Obviously those numbers aren't universal, that's just what worked for me. But I'm running a HV pump and have restricted the cam oil way down and turned oil to the lifters off entirely.

 

[TurboGLH]

Side note, if anyone is interested in the files to print those drill guides, I have a Google drive folder with other car related 3d printed items and I can put the files up to share.

I don't want to commit to shipping 100 sets out, but I'd be willing to send some out for the cost of postage too, but only if you plan to actually use them.