Flex plates

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BVoelzke

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This is my SFI flex plate after less than 120 runs in my Dart . I foot brake and leave at 2,000 trans is a 904 and I run an 8 inch converter with a 4:30 rear gear motor is a mid 500 hp 410 inch small block . What is everybody using with a 904 and a small block ?

IMG_1063.jpeg
 
Hard to believe an SFI plate broke that bad in a foot braker!
What brand was it?

Edit: can't help on the 904. I use a b&m SFI in my 727.
 
Hard to believe an SFI plate broke that bad in a foot braker!
What brand was it?

Edit: can't help on the 904. I use a b&m SFI in my 727.
I bought it from A&A Transmissions in July of 23 , I don't know who they get them from.
 

You don't believe you have a torque problem you have a balance issue Those are vibration cracks. I have seen two cracked like that and both were the wrong converter for the crank that was used. The owners racing the car never felt the vibration blaming open headers. What engine are you running ? Is it internal or external balance.

We also just had a 440 race engine 10 second truck. After 2 week ends it had metal in the oil. They pulled the engine and the thrust bearing was destroyed. The crank was shot and it cracked the block up through the mains.

They checked everything the engine came from our shop. When taking the flex plate off they saw a crack. They put the converter in the lathe and found the hub was welded on crooked. It had a 5/8 wobble at the ring gear .

I am sure that is a vibration crack. From out of balance or bent part. Was it ever on another engine where you could have missed seeing the crack starting? Or was it new for that engine?
 
Definitely looks like a metal fatigue crack. Possibly from excessive assembly runout or torque converter balloning. 65
 
I bought it from A&A Transmissions in July of 23

You don't believe you have a torque problem you have a balance issue Those are vibration cracks. I have seen two cracked like that and both were the wrong converter for the crank that was used. The owners racing the car never felt the vibration blaming open headers. What engine are you running ? Is it internal or external balance.

We also just had a 440 race engine 10 second truck. After 2 week ends it had metal in the oil. They pulled the engine and the thrust bearing was destroyed. The crank was shot and it cracked the block up through the mains.

They checked everything the engine came from our shop. When taking the flex plate off they saw a crack. They put the converter in the lathe and found the hub was welded on crooked. It had a 5/8 wobble at the ring gear .

I am sure that is a vibration crack. From out of balance or bent part. Was it ever on another engine where you could have missed seeing the crack starting? Or was it new for that engine?
Same converter I have ran for years , motor is a 410 cubic inch small block , motor was internally balanced , I just replaced the flex plate when I put the motor in .
 
You don't believe you have a torque problem you have a balance issue Those are vibration cracks. I have seen two cracked like that and both were the wrong converter for the crank that was used. The owners racing the car never felt the vibration blaming open headers. What engine are you running ? Is it internal or external balance.

We also just had a 440 race engine 10 second truck. After 2 week ends it had metal in the oil. They pulled the engine and the thrust bearing was destroyed. The crank was shot and it cracked the block up through the mains.

They checked everything the engine came from our shop. When taking the flex plate off they saw a crack. They put the converter in the lathe and found the hub was welded on crooked. It had a 5/8 wobble at the ring gear .

I am sure that is a vibration crack. From out of balance or bent part. Was it ever on another engine where you could have missed seeing the crack starting? Or was it new for that engine?
What brand converter was it?
 
I used the PRW on my 360 block 904 trans. I have not seen breaks like that in a SFI flex plate, but replaced plenty of factory flex plates especially GM products
 
I used the PRW on my 360 block 904 trans. I have not seen breaks like that in a SFI flex plate, but replaced plenty of factory flex plates especially GM products
Just thought I'd ask being i just bought a new PTC. Thanks for the info! Those flex plate cracks are no joke. Good you caught it now.
 
You have a DAMPER issue. Next up is the crank or the block.

The flex plate is telling you it’s pissed off.

Get a better damper.

Would the damper cause that so quickly ?
I’m not questioning your opinion,,,just curious.

I was thinking maybe wrong crank balance ?
Or something out of kilter ?
What about the balance for the stroker crank,,,,could it be wrong bobweight,,,and imbalance being masked by all the other things combined.
You know,,,noise and vibration from running down the track ?

Or,,,possibly a crank flange that is not true ?

I’m assuming that this was a complete fresh engine,,,,and the converter and transmission were used ?

Tommy
 
Production flex plates are made out of a 'springy' steel....so that can flex & not crack.

I suspect that SFI plate was made of non-springy steel [ for want of a better word ] & it cracked from flexing one too many times....
 
Would the damper cause that so quickly ?
I’m not questioning your opinion,,,just curious.

I was thinking maybe wrong crank balance ?
Or something out of kilter ?
What about the balance for the stroker crank,,,,could it be wrong bobweight,,,and imbalance being masked by all the other things combined.
You know,,,noise and vibration from running down the track ?

Or,,,possibly a crank flange that is not true ?

I’m assuming that this was a complete fresh engine,,,,and the converter and transmission were used ?

Tommy

It’s usually the opposite.

A piss poor balance job will show up quickly.

A bad damper (not counting the crank breaking aluminum hubs like Moroso dumped on the market back in the day because they broke parts very quickly) can take some time to do damage.

Not knowing what balancer the OP has, chances are it’s an elastomer damper.

They degrade every time you start the engine. The rubber gets heat cycles, and with each cycle its ability to dampen the torsional cycles of the crank degrades.

That’s one reason why I don’t use any of them.

I use Fluidamper on as many as I can. As a second option would be Innovators West and tied with that, and probably better than both of those and certainly better than an elastomer damper would be the TCI Rattler.

I’ve used several over the years on customers stuff but the number one gripe about them is at very low engine speed, like shutting the engine off they make a rattling sound.

All the rail birds and looky Lou’s run off at the mouth about how the engine is coming apart and the damper is killing the engine when the opposite is true.

If I had several dampers here I’d dyno test them, but I suspect with a water brake dyno you’d learn anything.

An inertia crank dyno (not a wheel dyno) would show accurate results.

I think some would be surprised at the results. In a very narrow range some elastomer dampers MAY show less harmonics but over the entire ROM range I think the elastomer dampers would be very disappointing.

In the last Small Block Engine manual Chrysler produced they cover a bit of this about their testing.

It’s worth reading if you have the book.

Edit: I went back and looked. The OP used it for a season or so.

Depending on his damper that’s a time frame where a bad damper shows up.

Since I’m a gutless turd and I hate carnage if the OP was my customer I’d want him to bring the engine back in so I could mag the crank at least.

I’d be scared to death that even if he gets a new damper on it he hasn’t already has some fractures started on the crank.

And the block. I’ve seen aftermarket blocks as tough as the BBC literally and by that I mean actually pull the mains right out of the block.

One BBC had less than 80 runs on it. It had the Moroso crank braking aluminum hub on it.

It was dropped off after I went home for the day, but the next morning I walked in, saw it on the stand and I said out loud “this is garbage”.

It broke the block, pulling the center three mains out, it had cracked the 1 and 5 mains. It had a Kieth Black billet crank and it broke it too.

It wasn’t in pieces but it had fracture in every main fillet and most of the rod throw fillets.

I knew it not because I’m smart, I knew because I’d seen it before.

What the OP posted is a bad damper. The flex plate is the canary in the coal mine.

Let’s hope he doesn’t have anything else broken.
 
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I've had the same flex plate in my car since I bought my Vitar 9" in late 74, I'll have to replace it with crap this year as NHRA now requires all V8 Stock Eliminator cars to have an SFI plate, mainly because of the Chevy plates exploding.

atp-z197_id.jpg
 
I have used this one in the past. 904, trans brake (leave at 5600) 4.86 gear, 1.29 60’.

IMG_1588.jpeg
 
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What brand converter was it?
I'll find out from Nick. He is the owner of the truck

All Pro balanced cranks received in stroker kits we get for engines are rebalanced. Had a FE Ford stroker out of balance over 120 grams. 3 grams is acceptable. Some cranks take a lot of weight in heavy metal slugs.

We had a 360 with an external balance front of the crank and a internal balanced rear of the crank. External Damper and a neutral flywheel on a 4 speed car. Unless you are standing at the balancer you can only take the word and trust the person balancing it. This 360 engine was balanced with the external 360 Damper used with the crank that was dropped off with the engine and no 360 flywheel .

So never trust your pro balanced crank . My small block would sin up over 9000 with steel mounts and it felt like and electric motor.

Here are 2 videos of the same molnar crank before and after balance. Look at the RPM difference once it is correctly balanced. Balancing is the most important from the damper to the tire.


 
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This is my SFI flex plate after less than 120 runs in my Dart . I foot brake and leave at 2,000 trans is a 904 and I run an 8 inch converter with a 4:30 rear gear motor is a mid 500 hp 410 inch small block . What is everybody using with a 904 and a small block ?

View attachment 1716395701
If I remember correctly, you previously had some rocker arm breakage and also a broken Eagle crankshaft. Were any of the parts in this current engine carried over from the previous build with those other issues? was this torque converter on that previous build?
 
If I remember correctly, you previously had some rocker arm breakage and also a broken Eagle crankshaft. Were any of the parts in this current engine carried over from the previous build with those other issues? was this torque converter on that previous build?
Good point !!! but no this is a totally different engine combo . I think I might have found the problem : when I took the motor out the passenger side motor mount rubber was broken , when I last changed the oil during winter maintenance I found loose bell housing bolts on the same side . Although I have a torque strap on the drivers side I am thinking the broken motor mount is causing the engine to move around thus causing the bolts to come loose and cracking the flex plate . I am thinking I need solid motor mounts . BTW its an ATI Super Damper rebuilt by them 2 years ago and the motor was on the dyno ( thats how I know the hp. and tq. numbers ) before installation in the car
 
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Good point !!! but no this is a totally different engine combo . I think I might have found the problem : when I took the motor out the passenger side motor mount rubber was broken , when I last changed the oil during winter maintenance I found loose bell housing bolts on the same side . Although I have a torque strap on the drivers side I am thinking the broken motor mount is causing the engine to move around thus causing the bolts to come loose and cracking the flex plate . I am thinking I need solid motor mounts . BTW its an ATI Super Damper rebuilt by them 2 years ago and the motor was on the dyno ( thats how I know the hp. and tq. numbers ) before installation in the car
The engine was run on a dyno but not with the torque converter. Rubber mounts won't cause vibrations. But if the rotating assembly is out of balance everything will vibrate loose. .

Back in the 70's I had an old Harley with a stroker kit. It had a vibration that would sting your legs on the tank. The women loved it "Good Vibrations" but the bike didn't, parts just kept falling off the bike. The licence plates would crack off like lightning hit them.
 
Loose bell housing bolts might do that depending on how loose and how many. Movement between engine and trans would be focused on the flex plate. I run the B&M flex plate. If you go that route make sure it is the 904 one. 727 Will rub the starter.
 
Production flex plates are made out of a 'springy' steel....so that can flex & not crack.

I suspect that SFI plate was made of non-springy steel [ for want of a better word ] & it cracked from flexing one too many times....
I was going to comment, was it mis-hardening , or did bolts pull flexplate down to tighten and cause Bending cracks?
Check hardening with automatic center punch, if you have an old flexplate or new replacement to compare a good one or cracked after many years of use, punch both & compare marks.
Just another possible clue.
 
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