72 360, cam/lifter failure, replacements?

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CichliDart

Well, where is it now?
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SF East Bay, Antioch CA.
My engine died.
I need a cam and lifters.

I have noticed almost everyone over the last several years discussing lifter problems and camshaft problems with things built in the last x amount of years.

Is Oregon Cams the go to solution for replacement or mild power/torque cams?
Johnson Lifters or?

This is a heavy B100 with a big camper bubble top like the ice cream man uses to sell ice cream. I just need it running again but don't want to do this more than once.

Advice about cams and lifters appreciated. I don’t need personal opinions about engine oil or what ******* decade it is.

Mike
 
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i'm sorry, but i'm having difficulty parsing the question: are you looking for a cam for the LA motor or the magnum?

either way, my rec would be to call ken up at oregon. but depending on which motor there's some other considerations.
 
Rule number ONE: Junk oil is junk oil.

Rule number TWO: Never mix oils. Ever. You have no idea what the additive package of either oil is, and you mixing oils like that can add something from one oil that will affect the other oil. So STOP doing that. Mixing those oils may have made the additive package in both oils fail.

All engine oils have zinc. ALL OF THEM. The amount of zinc in the oil is less in “modern” oils and if you don’t have cats you shouldn’t be using ANY oil that says it’s just oil or semi synthetic oil.

I’m not going to get into oil groups in this post, but I need to correct an error I have made several times here on FABO.

Regardless of all that, any oil that is made of Group I or II (or both) is just obsolete.

Group III oils get called synthetic but they are not.

If you buy an oil that says semi synthetic it has to have Group I or II base oil (or both) plus some Group III oil, and it doesn’t have to be much Group III.

Oil is a case of spending more gets you a better product IN MOST CASES.

Buying **** oil off the shelf of a box store is a bad policy.

It’s not 1980 any more.
 
Rule number ONE: Junk oil is junk oil.

Rule number TWO: Never mix oils. Ever. You have no idea what the additive package of either oil is, and you mixing oils like that can add something from one oil that will affect the other oil. So STOP doing that. Mixing those oils may have made the additive package in both oils fail.

All engine oils have zinc. ALL OF THEM. The amount of zinc in the oil is less in “modern” oils and if you don’t have cats you shouldn’t be using ANY oil that says it’s just oil or semi synthetic oil.

I’m not going to get into oil groups in this post, but I need to correct an error I have made several times here on FABO.

Regardless of all that, any oil that is made of Group I or II (or both) is just obsolete.

Group III oils get called synthetic but they are not.

If you buy an oil that says semi synthetic it has to have Group I or II base oil (or both) plus some Group III oil, and it doesn’t have to be much Group III.

Oil is a case of spending more gets you a better product IN MOST CASES.

Buying **** oil off the shelf of a box store is a bad policy.

It’s not 1980 any more.
I did NOT mix oils when I did the oil change. I may just delete the backstory since people can’t get past it.
 
okay, so it's LA that you want to fix.

while my recommendation is still keep the cam reasonable-- i love something like .410/.425 245/255 110LSA for this application, and to contact ken up at oregon to see if he's got a similar grind or can regrind yours; from there my deviation is to find out what happened.

have you ascertained *what* caused your cam to cease doing the bumpstick boogie?

slamming new parts in without due diligence is just a lesson in frustraton and how to lighten you wallet.
 
okay, so it's LA that you want to fix.

while my recommendation is still keep the cam reasonable-- i love something like .410/.425 245/255 110LSA for this application, and to contact ken up at oregon to see if he's got a similar grind or can regrind yours; from there my deviation is to find out what happened.

have you ascertained *what* caused your cam to cease doing the bumpstick boogie?

slamming new parts in without due diligence is just a lesson in frustraton and how to lighten you wallet.

okay, so it's LA that you want to fix.

while my recommendation is still keep the cam reasonable-- i love something like .410/.425 245/255 110LSA for this application, and to contact ken up at oregon to see if he's got a similar grind or can regrind yours; from there my deviation is to find out what happened.

have you ascertained *what* caused your cam to cease doing the bumpstick boogie?

slamming new parts in without due diligence is just a lesson in frustraton and how to lighten you wallet.
Hi Junkyard,

Well, I was fairly certain I had a reason but I very recently informed in an abrupt manner that zinc was not the reason despite the only change was using a different brand of oil. I went and checked other conversations about zinc in oil and see other people reference it for parts failures. I guess I am not allowed to have that reason ;)

I have not torn down the engine. I only got as far as removing the valve covers to observe the rocker arms. I had oil pressure and had not done anything else to this engine in over a year except my regularly scheduled archaic 1880’s oil changes prior to this so I do not have much to go on. I had several plans fall through on rebuilding an engine or doing an engine swap. I kind of need to get it moving so I can address more pressing problems. I don’t want to just throw a cam in and repeat the problem but every avenue I have tried to take has closed.

The cam(s) you mention. Would they be ok for a heavy tow vehicle like a van?

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply with help and advice. It is appreciated.

Mike
 
I did NOT mix oils when I did the oil change. I may just delete the backstory since people can’t get past it.


I went by YOUR post. At one time or another you were mixing oil, so it IS about mixing oil and using cheap assed oil.

You might not like my response but I don’t care. Playing tribologist is a bad thing.

Buying cheap assed junk oil is a bad thing. It sounded to me like you at least thought you killed an engine by using junk oil.

This isn’t for you. This is for guys who come along later.

DO NOT MIX OIL.

DO NOT BUY CHEAP JUNK OIL.
 
Hi Junkyard,

Well, I was fairly certain I had a reason but I very recently informed in an abrupt manner that zinc was not the reason despite the only change was using a different brand of oil. I went and checked other conversations about zinc in oil and see other people reference it for parts failures. I guess I am not allowed to have that reason ;)

I have not torn down the engine. I only got as far as removing the valve covers to observe the rocker arms. I had oil pressure and had not done anything else to this engine in over a year except my regularly scheduled archaic 1880’s oil changes prior to this so I do not have much to go on. I had several plans fall through on rebuilding an engine or doing an engine swap. I kind of need to get it moving so I can address more pressing problems. I don’t want to just throw a cam in and repeat the problem but every avenue I have tried to take has closed.

The cam(s) you mention. Would they be ok for a heavy tow vehicle like a van?

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply with help and advice. It is appreciated.

Mike


I never said anything about the oil you used killing the cam and lifters one way or the other, because you didn’t post what you used.

Now that you’ve edited your post, neither can anyone else.

What I do recall is you, like millions of other malinformed people out there claim there is no zinc in the oil any more and that’s just wrong.

They REDUCED the level of zinc dialkydithiophosphate AND the phosphorus in the oil to stop them from killing the cats.

It is still in engine oil and for the foreseeable future it will still be there, but probably in ever decreasing amounts.

It’s very likely the oil you used played a significant role in killing your cam.

Hopefully one or two guys will read this and stop buying crap oil or mixing oils.

Some day soon I’m going to make a video about oil, oil groups and additive packages because I can talk 100 times faster than I can type.
 
I never said anything about the oil you used killing the cam and lifters one way or the other, because you didn’t post what you used.

Now that you’ve edited your post, neither can anyone else.

What I do recall is you, like millions of other malinformed people out there claim there is no zinc in the oil any more and that’s just wrong.

They REDUCED the level of zinc dialkydithiophosphate AND the phosphorus in the oil to stop them from killing the cats.

It is still in engine oil and for the foreseeable future it will still be there, but probably in ever decreasing amounts.

It’s very likely the oil you used played a significant role in killing your cam.

Hopefully one or two guys will read this and stop buying crap oil or mixing oils.

Some day soon I’m going to make a video about oil, oil groups and additive packages because I can talk 100 times faster than I can type.
Or using diesel oil in gas motors. The one that kills me the most is: hey let’s build this engine, I spend X amount of money (thousands) and then running cheep **** oil. Like Fing really, it’s like 10-13 bucks a quarter for Penn, Driven, Amsoil etc, and 15 bucks for a good filter, so we’re talking about less than 100 bucks per year for an oil change in our classics. But no, let’s be a cheep ***.
 
I have been a member here off and on over the years and the oil thread that was started has pissed me off to a new level. That was ******* obnoxious! I have never had to ignore or block someone here but that pompous asshole can go **** himself.
 
I have been a member here off and on over the years and the oil thread that was started has pissed me off to a new level. That was ******* obnoxious! I have never had to ignore or block someone here but that pompous asshole can go **** himself.


Nice. Go cry a river.

If the truth hurts you that bad, PM your address and I’ll send you a teddy bear. You can hug it out with him.
 
I just broke in new comp soild lifters on an old used Mopar purple shaft cam. I used 5 quarts of VR1 20-50w and one quart of Schaeffers supreme 7000 20-50w.
They both advertise extra zinc for old flat tappet engines. I had no issues with the break in.
I always make sure all lifters Spin and slide up and down smoothly and I use red line or Schneider's cam break and Lube, in this case Schneider's.
As everyone said already, it's good to take them apart and clean them make sure they're not full of debris, as well as checking the faces for knicks or any imperfections that might cause one to bite the lobe.
 
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I went by YOUR post. At one time or another you were mixing oil, so it IS about mixing oil and using cheap assed oil.

You might not like my response but I don’t care. Playing tribologist is a bad thing.

Buying cheap assed junk oil is a bad thing. It sounded to me like you at least thought you killed an engine by using junk oil.

This isn’t for you. This is for guys who come along later.

DO NOT MIX OIL.

DO NOT BUY CHEAP JUNK OIL.
I did not know about the continued use of zinc, especially when people claimed it fouled up the catalytic converters. That is interesting.

As I have read, including from some of the Mopar manuals, the synthetic oil that they came up with in the 90s was pure synthetic oil.
At some point they began to blend it, and there was pushback to that.

At some point in time within the last two decades, the oil companies petitioned the government to allow the synthetic oil being sold to be a synthetic blend, instead of pure synthetic oil.

I want to say that the Mopar manual said Purr synthetic would last around 50,000 miles, except for the fact that it gets dirty.

Before I learned that they stop adding zinc or that they reduce the zinc content in oil, I was adding Mobil One 10W40 with the autoparts stores’ zinc additive. I didn’t flatten the tappers yet on the 1973 340 but maybe this mixture might be hurting my cam lobes.

As for mixing oils. I have done that with low performance, older or new high mileage engines that I had to maintain for a company that I worked for where the employees didn’t drive hard with the gas pedal, but neglected the hell out of the vehicles.
As I was told to do, not by choice.

Those trucks had transmission problems long before they ever had engine problems.

A coworker told me that his ignorant son changed his oil (90’s car) and filled it with automatic transmission fluid. He drove around for a week before his father corrected the mistake.

If ever there was a problem mixing oils, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN IT. The engine didn’t die, but it probably aged 80,000 miles. Pretty sure that was a roller engine though.

Obviously that isn’t the same as mixing 0W20 with 20W50

As to testifying that synthetic can handle temporary, extreme heat compared to the ranges of mineral oils:

I drove 1990 Subaru Loyale with cheese and a stick shift. The manual transmission leaked to empty going through the hills of Tennessee. When I smelt something and saw the temp gauge climb a little, all I had in the car to add to the reservoir (GEAR oil) of that transmission was 10W30 Mobil One oil. The 4 cylinder car’s transmission reservoir was empty. I added 2 1/2 quarts of Mobil One 10W30 oil.

It worked.

I added gear oil when I finally came to a truck stop, 75W90 right on top of it and the transmission never had a problem. I don’t think that solution would work the same way with an engine, but it doesn’t seem to be catastrophic, it probably speeds up wear and tear.
 
I did not know about the continued use of zinc, especially when people claimed it fouled up the catalytic converters. That is interesting.

As I have read, including from some of the Mopar manuals, the synthetic oil that they came up with in the 90s was pure synthetic oil.
At some point they began to blend it, and there was pushback to that.

At some point in time within the last two decades, the oil companies petitioned the government to allow the synthetic oil being sold to be a synthetic blend, instead of pure synthetic oil.

I want to say that the Mopar manual said Purr synthetic would last around 50,000 miles, except for the fact that it gets dirty.

Before I learned that they stop adding zinc or that they reduce the zinc content in oil, I was adding Mobil One 10W40 with the autoparts stores’ zinc additive. I didn’t flatten the tappers yet on the 1973 340 but maybe this mixture might be hurting my cam lobes.

As for mixing oils. I have done that with low performance, older or new high mileage engines that I had to maintain for a company that I worked for where the employees didn’t drive hard with the gas pedal, but neglected the hell out of the vehicles.
As I was told to do, not by choice.

Those trucks had transmission problems long before they ever had engine problems.

A coworker told me that his ignorant son changed his oil (90’s car) and filled it with automatic transmission fluid. He drove around for a week before his father corrected the mistake.

If ever there was a problem mixing oils, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN IT. The engine didn’t die, but it probably aged 80,000 miles. Pretty sure that was a roller engine though.

Obviously that isn’t the same as mixing 0W20 with 20W50

As to testifying that synthetic can handle temporary, extreme heat compared to the ranges of mineral oils:

I drove 1990 Subaru Loyale with cheese and a stick shift. The manual transmission leaked to empty going through the hills of Tennessee. When I smelt something and saw the temp gauge climb a little, all I had in the car to add to the reservoir (GEAR oil) of that transmission was 10W30 Mobil One oil. The 4 cylinder car’s transmission reservoir was empty. I added 2 1/2 quarts of Mobil One 10W30 oil.

It worked.

I added gear oil when I finally came to a truck stop, 75W90 right on top of it and the transmission never had a problem. I don’t think that solution would work the same way with an engine, but it doesn’t seem to be catastrophic, it probably speeds up wear and tear.

This is why I need to do a video. There is enough wrong in this post that I don’t want to type it all out.
 
Is Oregon Cams the go to solution for replacement or mild power/torque cams?
Johnson Lifters or?

they recommend ressurfacing vintage used lifters but do have an american made brand that they have had good luck with they told me.. i bought those lifters when i bought the cam. still sitting here in the box though..

gotta runa good break in oil then a good oil afterwards with flat tappets.

i've been running driven motor oil.. is it over kill? maybe but its in there and so far so good... i've also run VR1 with good results too..

you going through the motor too hopefully?


.
 
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It’s not 1980 any more.
We didn't have the problems with flat cams in 1980, come to think of it, I've never flattened a lobe or lost a bearing.
I've used Valvoline Racing oil in some form since the late 70's, I'm not changing because you say so. lol
I also run a qt of 10/30 in all my torqueflites, never lost one.
There's one thing for sure if strange **** happens it always show's up on FABO. lol
 
We didn't have the problems with flat cams in 1980, come to think of it, I've never flattened a lobe or lost a bearing.
I've used Valvoline Racing oil in some form since the late 70's, I'm not changing because you say so. lol
I also run a qt of 10/30 in all my torqueflites, never lost one.
There's one thing for sure if strange **** happens it always show's up on FABO. lol


Sadly, it’s not what I say. I learn from the experts.

Also sad is if you think the oil you buy today is the same as the oil you bought way back when you are shitting yourself.

I don’t know why oil is such a touchy subject.

QUALITY oils today leave that oil we had back then in the dust and it’s not even close.

It’s not some secret squirrel **** with voodoo magic thrown in, it’s pure science and engineering.

You want to stay in the dark ages I’m good with it.
 
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