Raybestos hoses are actually Sunsong. Are there any good brake hoses out there?

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cb474

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I ordered Raybestos brake hoses, front and rear, for my 1969 Dart, thinking hopefully they would be halfway decent quality, compared to what's out there. I ordred them from Amazon (sold by Amazon, not a third party seller), but Amazon said they are sourced directly from Raybestos.

The box that arrived was Raybestos packaging, but the hose inside was markek Sunsong (on all three hoses--contrary to the image in the product listing). Is Raybestos really just rebranding Sunsong parts? You can buy the same hose branded as Sunsong for about $5 versus $20 (or more) from Raybestos.

The hoses were also a lot thinner in diameter than the hoses on my Dart and they have silver, rather than brass colored fittings at the ends.

I have no record of the rear hose ever being replaced (I have all the repair records back to 1969). So I replaced the rear hose even though it looked fine: flexible, no cracks of any sort. But I just returned the front hoses, which have been replaced many times. The last time was in 2011 and the car has only gone 4000 miles since then; also the car is garaged and in a very mild climate. The front hoses really just seem totally fine, not the tiniest crack, no matter how much I flex them (which is how the shop manual says to inspect them).

Anyway is this really all we have for hose options now? Is Centric or Dorman any better than Sunsong? Are they all really Sunsong parts under different names?
 
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You cant trust Amazon for anything anymore. Someone could have just put cheap hoses in a Raybestos box and sold it that way, regardless of what Amazon is telling you. Amazon is getting bad for sellers reselling crap under false pretenses. I cant speak to your situation, but this is what Im reading and finding out personally.
 
70SwingerGuy said:
You cant trust Amazon for anything anymore. Someone could have just put cheap hoses in a Raybestos box and sold it that way, regardless of what Amazon is telling you. Amazon is getting bad for sellers reselling crap under false pretenses. I cant speak to your situation, but this is what Im reading and finding out personally.
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It was sold by Amazon. I specifically made sure that it wasn't a third party seller. Maybe it's not true that Amazon is getting them from Raybestos? But when I talked to customer service, they said they are sourced directly from Raybestos.

Has anyone bought these lately from Rockauto or a parts shop and experienced something different?
 
I'm just asking a simple question, but how do you know Sunsong isn't good quality?
 
RustyRatRod said:
I'm just asking a simple question, but how do you know Sunsong isn't good quality?
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As I say in the OP, I'm basing this on the fact that the hose itself is much less substantial than the hose I was replacing. It's smaller in diameter, so I assume the material of the hose is not as thick. It also seemed stiffer and less flexible material. And the fittings were zinc or something, as opposed to brass on the old hoses.

Also the fact that on Rockauto Sunsong hoses are the cheapest hoses, $5-$7, compared to $23 for Raybestos or Centric, and other hoses priced inbetween, perhaps means something?

So I don't know for sure that they are not good quality, but there are definitely some meaningful signs that they may well not be.

Plus, in any case, if Sunsong hoses are perfectly fine, then one may as well buy the Sunsong hoses directly for $5 and not spend $23 to get the same hose shipped in a box that say Raybestos on it. In either case, Raybestos is just ripping people off.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I'm just asking a simple question, but how do you know Sunsong isn't good quality?
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I'm guessing maybe it's this thread that you saw:


People there say that Sunsong makes OE parts for car manufacturers and are fine parts. But they also say when they bought the hoses they were identical to the OE hoses on their cars. But these people are talking about relatively new cars.

There are definitely OE manufacturers that make great OE parts and also make not so great aftermarket parts. And obviously Sunsong was not an OE manufacturer for Chrysler in the 1960s.

It is possible that the rear hose on my car was the original hose, since I have all the repair records back to 1969 and there is no record of it ever being replaced (whereas there are records of the front hoses being replace several times); although I find it a little hard to believe it's original (can a hose be good for 158K miles, in an always garaged car, in a mild climate?). Nonetheless, if that's the case, I can definitely say that the Sunsong hose was not exactly like the the hose I replaced. And it was also a lot less substantial than the front hoses that were replaced in 2011, whatever those were.

Anyway, I don't know what to think. Maybe the Sunsong hoses are the cheapest because they are selling them directly, whereas everyone else has to buy the hose from Sunsong and then mark the price up. That seems to be what some people on Bob is the Oil Guy are suggesting.

[Edit: Looking a little more on Bob is the Oil Guy, there are a lot of posts about Sunsong hoses. I have not read all of them. But I see a lot of stories of people buying all sorts of brands of hoses, including from parts stores, and they turn out to actually be Sunsong. One person says they have pretty much found that all aftermarket brake hoses are repackaged Sunsong hoses. If that's true, it's would be pretty remarkable that there is only one manufacturer of after market brake hoses. In any case, if that's true it also means there is no reason not to just by the direct Sunsong branded hose and save a lot of money.]
 
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cb474 said:
As I say in the OP, I'm basing this on the fact that the hose itself is much less substantial than the hose I was replacing. It's smaller in diameter, so I assume the material of the hose is not as thick. It also seemed stiffer and less flexible material. And the fittings were zinc or something, as opposed to brass on the old hoses.

Also the fact that on Rockauto Sunsong hoses are the cheapest hoses, $5-$7, compared to $23 for Raybestos or Centric, and other hoses priced inbetween, perhaps means something?

So I don't know for sure that they are not good quality, but there are definitely some meaningful signs that they may well not be.

Plus, in any case, if Sunsong hoses are perfectly fine, then one may as well buy the Sunsong hoses directly for $5 and not spend $23 to get the same hose shipped in a box that say Raybestos on it. In either case, Raybestos is just ripping people off.
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I don't think it's Raybestos. Re-boxing has been a problem for a long time now. It's normally the vendors like parts store warehouses and such. I saw it everyday in management at O'Reilly. It's really depressing to find a part in a brand a customer was really looking for, only for it to come in a house brand box, with the house brand part number marked out and the brand name number written on in marker. They don't care about integrity anymore. They just want your money. The sad reality is, there are no American made parts anymore, except very high end performance pieces and that's about it.
 
cb474 said:
I'm guessing maybe it's this thread that you saw:


People there say that Sunsong makes OE parts for car manufacturers and are fine parts. But they also say when they bought the hoses they were identical to the OE hoses on their cars. But these people are talking about relatively new cars.

There are definitely OE manufacturers that make great OE parts and also make not so great aftermarket parts. And obviously Sunsong was not an OE manufacturer for Chrysler in the 1960s.

It is possible that the rear hose on my car was the original hose, since I have all the repair records back to 1969 and there is no record of it ever being replaced (whereas there are records of the front hoses being replace several times); although I find it a little hard to believe it's original (can a hose be good for 158K miles, in an always garaged car, in a mild climate?). Nonetheless, if that's the case, I can definitely say that the Sunsong hose was not exactly like the the hose I replaced. And it was also a lot less substantial than the front hoses that were replaced in 2011, whatever those were.

Anyway, I don't know what to think. Maybe the Sunsong hoses are the cheapest because they are selling them directly, whereas everyone else has to buy the hose from Sunsong and then mark the price up. That seems to be what some people on Bob is the Oil Guy are suggesting.

[Edit: Looking a little more on Bob is the Oil Guy, there are a lot of posts about Sunsong hoses. I have not read all of them. But I see a lot of stories of people buying all sorts of brands of hoses, including from parts stores, and they turn out to actually be Sunsong. One person says they have pretty much found that all aftermarket brake hoses are repackaged Sunsong hoses. If that's true, it's would be pretty remarkable that there is only one manufacturer of after market brake hoses. In any case, if that's true it also means there is no reason not to just by the direct Sunsong branded hose and save a lot of money.]
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No, this is the first thread ever where I saw their name brand. Never heard of them before now. I was simply asking a legitimate question.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I don't think it's Raybestos. Re-boxing has been a problem for a long time now. It's normally the vendors like parts store warehouses and such. I saw it everyday in management at O'Reilly. It's really depressing to find a part in a brand a customer was really looking for, only for it to come in a house brand box, with the house brand part number marked out and the brand name number written on in marker. They don't care about integrity anymore. They just want your money. The sad reality is, there are no American made parts anymore, except very high end performance pieces and that's about it.
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Do you mean, you don't think it's only Raybestos?

That does seem to be what people are saying on Bob is the Oil Guy. It's everyone. They are all just reboxing Sunsong brake hoses.

I don't need my parts to be made in the US. But I'd like to think someone is interested in making high quality parts that are equivalent to OE parts, even for classic cars. I'd be happy to pay more for that. I'm sure if someone wanted to do that, there are overseas factories that can do it.

But if it's really just all the same part under different labels and with a company like Raybestos they are just trading on their name and past reputation, that's pretty aggravating and sad. I know this happens, I'm not naive, but I didn't think it was literally every company. It's amazing, if correct, that the entire price spread from $5 to $24 on the same part on Rockauto is just paying for different names and packages for the same exact part from the same manufacturer.
 
cb474 said:
Do you mean, you don't think it's only Raybestos?

That does seem to be what people are saying on Bob is the Oil Guy. It's everyone. They are all just reboxing Sunsong brake hoses.

I don't need my parts to be made in the US. But I'd like to think someone is interested in making high quality parts that are equivalent to OE parts, even for classic cars. I'd be happy to pay more for that. I'm sure if someone wanted to do that, there are overseas factories that can do it.

But if it's really just all the same part under different labels and with a company like Raybestos they are just trading on their name and past reputation, that's pretty aggravating and sad. I know this happens, I'm not naive, but I didn't think it was literally every company. It's amazing, if correct, that the entire price spread from $5 to $24 on the same part on Rockauto is just paying for different names and packages for the same exact part from the same manufacturer.
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No, I mean I don't think it's Raybestos at all. Nor do I think it's any other MANUFACTURER that's doing it. It's the vendors. The retailers. They don't care what brand something is. All they care about is that it get sold. I've seen re-boxing at every major parts store. It's common practice now. It sucks and I think it's dang near dishonest, but that's how they do it now.
 

It's VERY possible 1 of 2 things happened.

1...Raybestos may be sourcing them from some other brand themselves

2...They may be reboxed--BY A RAYBESTOS rep, in other words sorta with the blessing of the company. With near 15 years "in another life" into parts sales, I've been witness to a few line change overs. One was the disasterous change from Standard / Blue streak to "piddle and diddle." (P&D / Bendix). After we'd had enough of that, they changed back to Standard / Blue Streak. IN BOTH CASES reps from the supplier came in and bought back unwanted / unpopular parts, BUT REBOXED many of the existing parts into their product line!!!
 
I try to find NOS. I know most people avoid NOS rubber products but if they've been in the box and look nice and are pliable, I will use them. I have several old brake books to look up part numbers. I prefer the old boxes that say made in the USA.
 
All current aftermarket offerings that I've seen are sunsong in every package regardless of brand name sold under.. If you want American/Canadian made lookup hydraulic/brake hose shops that make Brakequip custom hoses, they can match up ends and crimp.
 
townsend said:
Made in USA - NOS hoses can be found.
Some people prefer made in USA even if they are old stock rubber hoses.
Here's an example of a rear brake hose for a 1969 Dart from eBay

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lemondana said:
I try to find NOS. I know most people avoid NOS rubber products but if they've been in the box and look nice and are pliable, I will use them. I have several old brake books to look up part numbers. I prefer the old boxes that say made in the USA.
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Yeah, I'm not sure what to think about a 28 year old hose that has been stored in unknown conditions, like the one on ebay townsend links to. Is that really better than the 15 year old hoses on my garaged car that only have 4000 miles on them and look fine and pliable? It's tempting, but I think I probably fall on the side that it's not a great idea with rubber parts.
 
RustyRatRod said:
No, I mean I don't think it's Raybestos at all. Nor do I think it's any other MANUFACTURER that's doing it. It's the vendors. The retailers. They don't care what brand something is. All they care about is that it get sold. I've seen re-boxing at every major parts store. It's common practice now. It sucks and I think it's dang near dishonest, but that's how they do it now.
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I this case it does sound like it's Raybestos and other manufacturers that are doing it. Now that I've searched around, it seems like a lot of people are saying no matter what you buy, from any store these days, it's going to be a Sunsong hose in the box. Big.J.007 says the same above.

But that aside, I still don't understand what you are saying the retailers are doing. Where do they get the, for example, Raybestos box to put the whatever part in? Is Raybestos supplying them with empty boxes to put whatever part they want in it? I'm not questioning you, I just don't get the process here.
 
cb474 said:
I this case it does sound like it's Raybestos and other manufacturers that are doing it. Now that I've searched around, it seems like a lot of people are saying no matter what you buy, from any store these days, it's going to be a Sunsong hose in the box. Big.J.007 says the same above.

But that aside, I still don't understand what you are saying the retailers are doing. Where do they get the, for example, Raybestos box to put the whatever part in? Is Raybestos supplying them with empty boxes to put whatever part they want in it? I'm not questioning you, I just don't get the process here.
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In the end, it doesn't matter who it is, does it? Since we can't do a damn thing about it.
 
cb474 said:
That's true. I was just curious to understand how what you're saying the retailers do works.
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I've told you once. I was in management in retail auto parts over five years. I've SEEN IT first hand. Carry on.
 
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