Rear brakes are not bleeding.

[ProjectBazza]

Stupid question time....

Since the bleeders appear to be in the wrong location (pointing downward), could it be as simple as the calipers need to be swapped L to R?

Logging off soon and heading for home, otherwise I'd look at the pictures and (maybe) answer this for myself.

 

[DentalDart]

Before you pull the master, bleed it and put plugs in it. If you have a good pedal then the master is fine. if not replace the master. Order these adapters and plugs and you will have them for future diagnosing on these old cars. This is a good way to isolate the problem area in your brake system.

Amazon.com: Allstar Performance ALL41012 3/16" Adapter for Sideport M/C : Automotive

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006K8MKEA?tag=fabo03-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DMH3MGS?tag=fabo03-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KNGVDUG?tag=fabo03-20

I ordered a bunch of plugs earlier, they will be at my house waiting for me when I get back.

 

[ESP47]

You originally had no fluid going to the rears. What did you do to get the fluid to start flowing?

 

[DentalDart]

You originally had no fluid going to the rears. What did you do to get the fluid to start flowing?

I wasn’t using the power bleeder, I was pumping it with my son and couldn’t get the pedal hard enough to really force fluid back there.

I used the syringe filled with fluid to force fluid through all of the lines and the calipers.

 

[ESP47]

I wasn’t using the power bleeder, I was pumping it with my son and couldn’t get the pedal hard enough to really force fluid back there.

I used the syringe filled with fluid to force fluid through all of the lines and the calipers.

Thanks! I think my prop valve is blocking my fluid at the moment but I'll remember this if I still can't get fluid back there.

 

[DentalDart]

Just wanted to say… **** these brakes! lol.

Installed a different MC, the pedal already feels 10x better, but the brakes still aren’t hard. I think the parking brake is adjusted properly, but it’s pretty hard to hear if they are dragging or not.

I really feel like the dumbest person alive struggling with these brakes so much. I’d gladly pay to have them done for me

 

[92b]

Just wanted to say… **** these brakes! lol.

Installed a different MC, the pedal already feels 10x better, but the brakes still aren’t hard. I think the parking brake is adjusted properly, but it’s pretty hard to hear if they are dragging or not.

I really feel like the dumbest person alive struggling with these brakes so much. I’d gladly pay to have them done for me

I hate to even ask because I feel your pain but did you try plugging off the calipers and bleeding yet?

 

[DentalDart]

I hate to even ask because I feel your pain but did you try plugging off the calipers and bleeding yet?

I’m an idiot and ordered 5-16th not 3/16 plugs, so I have those on the way.

 

[340sFastback]

Some times cars are like woman you can't figure it out. But keep at it, persistence, and a break through usually surfaces...

 

[DentalDart]

Ok can I light the car on fire yet?

I disconnected every line and retightened them, and when I tightened them I seated the line like 4 times before the “final tighten.”

I put a gallon of brake fluid through it today when bleeding the brakes. I used the power bleeder and the leg of my 12 year old. 1 pump to then loosen bleeder screw, 1 pump then loosen for about an hour. Went around multiple times.

When using the bleeder I’m not losing pressure after getting the pressure up, which would rule out a leak in the system.

Pedal straight to the floor on the 1st pump.
The rears are tight, I can’t move them with a beaker bar but the fronts I can get to move. With the pedal on the floor.

I capped the rear lines, and still a soft pedal before re bleeding everything.

I’m going to put on the entire new brake kit and see if I’m the idiot or what. If I’m the idiot I’m paying someone to do it, because at this point I’ve spent way to many days fighting a never ending battle.

 

[DentalDart]

Some times cars are like woman you can't figure it out. But keep at it, persistence, and a break through usually surfaces...

Well the pain in the *** women you get rid of and then stay with the one that gives you the most joy and least amount of stress.

 

[DentalDart]

I re-bled the MC with it on the car, and that helped a little. Then I cracked each port, had my son press the pedal all the way in and closed the port. After doing those 2 things I can pump the pedal like 7-8x and it forms up. So looks like I’ll bleed the system again and see if it’s better.

 

[Dartsun]

Hope you figure it out Doc, brakes can be a battle. I've got one that rubs the front left alittle, I just drive anyways.

 

[DentalDart]

Hope you figure it out Doc, brakes can be a battle. I've got one that rubs the front left alittle, I just drive anyways.

I’d love for it to rub, at least I’d be able to drive it. My pos is still on blocks. I need to buy one that isn’t a project

 

[Dartsun]

I’d love for it to rub, at least I’d be able to drive it. My pos is still on blocks. I need to buy one that isn’t a project

I feel ya I'm only driving one of my 3 Mopars myself.

 

[92b]

Ok can I light the car on fire yet?

I disconnected every line and retightened them, and when I tightened them I seated the line like 4 times before the “final tighten.”

I put a gallon of brake fluid through it today when bleeding the brakes. I used the power bleeder and the leg of my 12 year old. 1 pump to then loosen bleeder screw, 1 pump then loosen for about an hour. Went around multiple times.

When using the bleeder I’m not losing pressure after getting the pressure up, which would rule out a leak in the system.

Pedal straight to the floor on the 1st pump.
The rears are tight, I can’t move them with a beaker bar but the fronts I can get to move. With the pedal on the floor.

I capped the rear lines, and still a soft pedal before re bleeding everything.

I’m going to put on the entire new brake kit and see if I’m the idiot or what. If I’m the idiot I’m paying someone to do it, because at this point I’ve spent way to many days fighting a never ending battle.

View attachment 1716440463

View attachment 1716440464

View attachment 1716440465

View attachment 1716440466

Did you try plugging and bleeding the master cylinder?

 

[DentalDart]

Did you try plugging and bleeding the master cylinder?

Yes I rebled the MC last night with it on the car. Went and got brand new fluid to do it with as well.

 

[72bluNblu]

Pedal straight to the floor on the 1st pump.
The rears are tight, I can’t move them with a beaker bar but the fronts I can get to move. With the pedal on the floor.

If I follow this, you're using a breaker bar to turn the wheel when the brakes are being applied to see if the brakes are working right?

And the front brakes don't grab tight enough to keep you from moving the wheel with the breaker bar?

I capped the rear lines, and still a soft pedal before re bleeding everything.

So, rear brakes fully out of the system and you have a soft pedal still? Like exactly the same as with the rear brakes hooked up or was there any change at all?

That would indicate either the master cylinder or the front brakes are the culprit, not the rears.

Have you tried capping the front and seeing what the pedal is like? Because that could help eliminate the rear brakes and master cylinder.

I’m going to put on the entire new brake kit and see if I’m the idiot or what. If I’m the idiot I’m paying someone to do it, because at this point I’ve spent way to many days fighting a never ending battle.

I think you're changing too many variables here. At the point you've changed the master cylinder, and capped the rears and still had the same problem if I'm following you. And the front brakes aren't grabbing the rotors tight enough to keep you from spinning the wheels.

I would cap the front brakes and see if you have any change in the pedal. You could even do that one side at a time, and maybe get it down to a single caliper with an issue. If capping out one or both of the front brakes solves the issue then you pretty much know the front brakes have been the issue. If if changes nothing, it would indicate either both front and rear brake issues or the master cylinder. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good.

You said the front brakes are new as well, so you don't know if they were working properly before all this correct?

I know it's frustrating, but you need to eliminate each part one by one. Just wholesale changing everything is terrible as far as troubleshooting goes, if it doesn't fix the issue you have to start over and eliminate each and every part again. And if it does fix the issue, you don't know what the problem actually was.

 

[92b]

Yes I rebled the MC last night with it on the car. Went and got brand new fluid to do it with as well.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant plug the master and bleed it. You should have a solid pedal with the master plugged and bled. If you don't the problem is between the pedal and the master. I feel like your on the verge of figuring this out. Hang in there.

 

[Just Send It]

OP...When you're bleeding the MC, are you 100% sure that the rod is being completely pushed in until it bottoms out in the bore?

I've bench bled MCs and there's been huge air bubbles trapped in the last 1/16". It can be tough to feel when you're using the pedal.

Sorry if you mentioned this already. I didn't catch it.

 

[DentalDart]

I lengthened the rod from the pedal to the MC and rebled it.

Now for some more intrigue. When we go back around to rebleed the brakes. 1 pump hold, loosen bleeder screw and retighten bleeder screw. After about 3 times on the first wheel my son says the pedal “Bricks,” what he means by that is the pedal gets rock hard! Even when I go to press it, I have to use all my leg strength to get the pedal to go in at all. If I let out a bleeder screw 1 time it gets better, but if I do it more than once it “bricks” again. But when the pedal is “bricked” the rear rotors can move when not pressing the pedal and the front rotors are rock solid. When I press the pedal all rotors are solid.

Is my rod out to far now?

 

[Just Send It]

I lengthened the rod from the pedal to the MC and rebled it.

Now for some more intrigue. When we go back around to rebleed the brakes. 1 pump hold, loosen bleeder screw and retighten bleeder screw. After about 3 times on the first wheel my son says the pedal “Bricks,” what he means by that is the pedal gets rock hard! Even when I go to press it, I have to use all my leg strength to get the pedal to go in at all. If I let out a bleeder screw 1 time it gets better, but if I do it more than once it “bricks” again. But when the pedal is “bricked” the rear rotors can move when not pressing the pedal and the front rotors are rock solid. When I press the pedal all rotors are solid.

Is my rod out to far now?

I'm not sure about the Bricking. Someone else will have to chime in on that.

As far as the arm's length, you should have approximately an 1/8" between the back of the pedal arm to your floorpan/carpet when it's fully depressed. That will ensure you're getting a full stroke while not pushing the arm through the MC and possibly damaging it. I have an 1/8" thick magnet that I'll put on the back of the pedal as a gauge.

Sharpies are your friends. Remove the boot from the pedal arm. Then mark the arm right at the firewall. (By hand) I'll push the arm into the MC as far as it can go, and then mark the arm again at the firewall. The distance between those 2 marks is your total stroke. Write that number down. From there, reattach the arm to the pedal and have someone depress it while you make the length adjustments until it's 1/8" away while maintaining that stroke distance.

 

[72bluNblu]

I lengthened the rod from the pedal to the MC and rebled it.

Now for some more intrigue. When we go back around to rebleed the brakes. 1 pump hold, loosen bleeder screw and retighten bleeder screw. After about 3 times on the first wheel my son says the pedal “Bricks,” what he means by that is the pedal gets rock hard! Even when I go to press it, I have to use all my leg strength to get the pedal to go in at all. If I let out a bleeder screw 1 time it gets better, but if I do it more than once it “bricks” again. But when the pedal is “bricked” the rear rotors can move when not pressing the pedal and the front rotors are rock solid. When I press the pedal all rotors are solid.

Is my rod out to far now?

Sounds like the pushrod is too long and isn’t letting all the pressure off when the pedal is released.

 

[str12-340]

I will repeat an earlier comment (#22)... Now that you posted a picture of the rear brakes with a drain bottle attached, you can understand the orientation of the bleeder, which appears to be at the bottom of the caliper as opposed to the top (see pictures of your front calipers). This does not allow proper bleeding of the rear calipers. Often this is the result of having the calipers switched from side to side. but I tried to do that in my head and the bleeder still seems to be in the wrong place.

 

[DentalDart]

I will repeat an earlier comment (#22)... Now that you posted a picture of the rear brakes with a drain bottle attached, you can understand the orientation of the bleeder, which appears to be at the bottom of the caliper as opposed to the top (see pictures of your front calipers). This does not allow proper bleeding of the rear calipers. Often this is the result of having the calipers switched from side to side. but I tried to do that in my head and the bleeder still seems to be in the wrong place.

Yes bleeder will be in a worse position if I switch the sides.

I’ve bled brakes with the bleeder up, by pulling out the top caliper bolt and lifting the calipers up. Had the same issues.