No start with new wiring and battery relocation

[Zcuda68]

Ok guys starting to put car "68 Barracuda notch, 408 stroker, tremec tko 600 5 speed with FAST EFI" together after full resto. Bought an American Auto wire kit with full schematics very informative, Also relocating battery to trunk.
Trying to integrate AWW kit, FAST and battery relocation all together.
Right now I have power to alternator, coil, and key on power, but cannot seem to get car to crank.
I have the newer mopar relay with ground terminal that is grounded directly to battery which is grounded to car using a 1/2" bolt, nut welded to frame, Engine block has 2- #2 grounds that go to 2- 1/2" bolts, nut welded to frame.
WHAT AM I MISSING??
WHAT DO I NEED TO CHECK NEXT?

Thanks all for any info, love this forum.

 

[67Dart273]

First I do not understand what you mean by "newer starter relay." Can you post a shot? Is it 3, 4, or 5 terminal?

1...The one in the photo is a 69/ earlier STICK shift which grounds the coil through the relay mounting bracket.
2...ANY automatic, and not "newer" had 4 terminals, and the stick cars 70 and later used that 4 terminal relay. Only difference is the added terminal is for the relay coil ground---which is grounded by the automatic neutral start switch, or by the clutch switch in a stick car
4...The "later" 5 terminal, used on Jeeps and I think Dodge pickups, had a terminal that came alive when engaged and sent power off I guess to the ballast during cranking. This relay, even tho appearing different, works just like the automatic relay except the solenoid terminal was replaced by different terminals, and then the added terminal at far bottom left

So, if you have a 3 terminal, make sure the relay bracket is grounded, and there is not much current there. The mounting bolt to the body should be fine.

Make sure you have the starter signal from the key to the "push on" terminal which is the coil of the relay.

IF you have the 4 terminal, the remaining push on terminal must become grounded. Again, this either goes to the NSS on the automatic, a clutch switch if used, or to ground. This terminal functions in place of the relay mount on the stick relay

I doubt you have the 5 pin Jeep one, but the picture should relate the hook up. Same as the 4 pin, ignore the added 5th pin.

 

[67Dart273]

Also what are you doing for an ignition system? Is it integrated with the EFI? Generally you need to jumper the IGN1 and IGN2 terminals on the key, or at least the wiring from them which leads into the engine bay. IGN1 is your "ignition run" and IGN2 is the original ballast resistor bypass circuit.

If you are running a ballast type ignition with EFI, that might get a bit more tricky

 

[matthon]

You said you had power to coil, what about distributor?

I have an AAW harness.

AAW wiring diagram below.

Stock ignition switch has BAT, ACC, SOL, IGN1, IGN2.

BAT 12v from battery.

ACC feed.

SOL to starter solenoid.

Pink IGN wire powers MSD and coil, and since IGN1 and IGN2 on the switch are start and run, I hooked both to the pink wire.

Pink wire goes to coil, wire from coil to distributor.

 

[67Dart273]

You said you had power to coil, what about distributor?

I have an AAW harness.

AAW wiring diagram below.

Stock ignition switch has BAT, ACC, SOL, IGN1, IGN2.

BAT 12v from battery.

ACC feed.

SOL to starter solenoid.

Pink IGN wire powers MSD and coil, and since IGN1 and IGN2 on the switch are start and run, I hooked both to the pink wire.

Pink wire goes to coil, wire from coil to distributor.

View attachment 1716454138

NO THAT IS NOT correct SOL wire from key does not go in series with the neutral switch, and does not go to solenoid

The circuit path from the ignition switch S wire (OEM YELLOW) is direct to the start relay coil, through the coil out on the NSS wire, down to the transmission, and to the center terminal of the NSS. If a stick car, ground the second coil terminal or run it through the clutch switch which then grounds it

The RELAY then activates the solenoid by way of the "big square" terminal on the start relay, no. 12 or 10 from there to the starter solenoid

 

[Zcuda68]

First I do not understand what you mean by "newer starter relay." Can you post a shot? Is it 3, 4, or 5 terminal?

1...The one in the photo is a 69/ earlier STICK shift which grounds the coil through the relay mounting bracket.
2...ANY automatic, and not "newer" had 4 terminals, and the stick cars 70 and later used that 4 terminal relay. Only difference is the added terminal is for the relay coil ground---which is grounded by the automatic neutral start switch, or by the clutch switch in a stick car
4...The "later" 5 terminal, used on Jeeps and I think Dodge pickups, had a terminal that came alive when engaged and sent power off I guess to the ballast during cranking. This relay, even tho appearing different, works just like the automatic relay except the solenoid terminal was replaced by different terminals, and then the added terminal at far bottom left

View attachment 1716454121
So, if you have a 3 terminal, make sure the relay bracket is grounded, and there is not much current there. The mounting bolt to the body should be fine.

Make sure you have the starter signal from the key to the "push on" terminal which is the coil of the relay.

IF you have the 4 terminal, the remaining push on terminal must become grounded. Again, this either goes to the NSS on the automatic, a clutch switch if used, or to ground. This terminal functions in place of the relay mount on the stick relay

I doubt you have the 5 pin Jeep one, but the picture should relate the hook up. Same as the 4 pin, ignore the added 5th pin.

67Dart273 thanks for Responding.
I have a 4 pin relay that's why I grounded the ground tab on relay, 3 pin relay was grounded through case is my understanding.

No ballast resister have an Msd ready to run. Coil and alternator have 12 volts when key is on.

Also what are you doing for an ignition system? Is it integrated with the EFI? Generally you need to jumper the IGN1 and IGN2 terminals on the key, or at least the wiring from them which leads into the engine bay. IGN1 is your "ignition run" and IGN2 is the original ballast resistor bypass circuit.

If you are running a ballast type ignition with EFI, that might get a bit more tricky

 

[Zcuda68]

Also what are you doing for an ignition system? Is it integrated with the EFI? Generally you need to jumper the IGN1 and IGN2 terminals on the key, or at least the wiring from them which leads into the engine bay. IGN1 is your "ignition run" and IGN2 is the original ballast resistor bypass circuit.

If you are running a ballast type ignition with EFI, that might get a bit more tricky

I'll try jumpering from ign 1 to ign 2.
Thanks

 

[Zcuda68]

NO THAT IS NOT correct SOL wire from key does not go in series with the neutral switch, and does not go to solenoid

The circuit path from the ignition switch S wire (OEM YELLOW) is direct to the start relay coil, through the coil out on the NSS wire, down to the transmission, and to the center terminal of the NSS. If a stick car, ground the second coil terminal or run it through the clutch switch which then grounds it

The RELAY then activates the solenoid by way of the "big square" terminal on the start relay, no. 12 or 10 from there to the starter solenoid

how do I check ford solenoid to make sure it has power? Only in crank position correct?

 

[67Dart273]

You said you had power to coil, what about distributor?

I have an AAW harness.

AAW wiring diagram below.

Stock ignition switch has BAT, ACC, SOL, IGN1, IGN2.

BAT 12v from battery.

ACC feed.

SOL to starter solenoid.

Pink IGN wire powers MSD and coil, and since IGN1 and IGN2 on the switch are start and run, I hooked both to the pink wire.

Pink wire goes to coil, wire from coil to distributor.

View attachment 1716454138

NO THAT IS NOT correct SOL does not go in series with the neutral switch, and does not go to solenoid

The circuit path from the ignition switch S wire (OEM YELLOW) is direct to the start relay coil, through the coil out on the NSS wire, down to the transmission, and to the center terminal of the NSS. If a stick car, ground the second coil terminal or run it through the clutch switch which then grounds it

The RELAY then activates the solenoid by way of the "big square" terminal on the start relay, no. 12 or 10 from there to the starter solenoid

how do I check ford solenoid to make sure it has power? Only in crank position correct?

So you are firing a ford solenoid with the Mopar relay? I assume you have the Ford solenoid in the big starter wire and using a smaller wire from the alternator?

So first you need to see if the Mopar relay is working. It sounds as if it should. Put a light or meter on the "start" wire from the key there at the Mopar relay and it should power up in "start." Then move to the large "square" terminal on the relay which formerly went to the Mopar starter solenoid. That should power up as well in crank.

That square terminal should feed back to your Ford relay, which must be grounded, and should hook to the small terminal marked "S" on the Ford. If the Ford has a second small terminal, it was used for ballast bypass and will not be used.

If that is what you are doing, you should be able to hear the Ford relay fire. You should have the Mopar solenoid terminal jumpered to the main terminal, as the Ford solenoid will power up the entire thing.

if you refer to your own post, the small had drawn diagram, it shows (in green) the feed I'm talking about.

It also shows the jumper at the starter

Other than than, "I can't see" what you see, and obviously this is not factory. So it's a matter of following the power and see what is getting power. If you have someone to help, or can make an alligator clip jumper, you can manually power the small terminal at the start relay. You should hear it click. You can use a light/ meter to see if the "square screw" is then powered, or you should hear the Ford solenoid engage.

 

[matthon]

NO THAT IS NOT

Mistyped, meant starter relay.

 

[matthon]

 

[jbc426]

MADD used to have good diagrams for battery in trunk etc.

 

[Zcuda68]

NO THAT IS NOT correct SOL does not go in series with the neutral switch, and does not go to solenoid

The circuit path from the ignition switch S wire (OEM YELLOW) is direct to the start relay coil, through the coil out on the NSS wire, down to the transmission, and to the center terminal of the NSS. If a stick car, ground the second coil terminal or run it through the clutch switch which then grounds it

The RELAY then activates the solenoid by way of the "big square" terminal on the start relay, no. 12 or 10 from there to the starter solenoid

So you are firing a ford solenoid with the Mopar relay? I assume you have the Ford solenoid in the big starter wire and using a smaller wire from the alternator?

So first you need to see if the Mopar relay is working. It sounds as if it should. Put a light or meter on the "start" wire from the key there at the Mopar relay and it should power up in "start." Then move to the large "square" terminal on the relay which formerly went to the Mopar starter solenoid. That should power up as well in crank.

That square terminal should feed back to your Ford relay, which must be grounded, and should hook to the small terminal marked "S" on the Ford. If the Ford has a second small terminal, it was used for ballast bypass and will not be used.

If that is what you are doing, you should be able to hear the Ford relay fire. You should have the Mopar solenoid terminal jumpered to the main terminal, as the Ford solenoid will power up the entire thing.

if you refer to your own post, the small had drawn diagram, it shows (in green) the feed I'm talking about.

It also shows the jumper at the starter

Other than than, "I can't see" what you see, and obviously this is not factory. So it's a matter of following the power and see what is getting power. If you have someone to help, or can make an alligator clip jumper, you can manually power the small terminal at the start relay. You should hear it click. You can use a light/ meter to see if the "square screw" is then powered, or you should hear the Ford solenoid engage.

Was busy yesterday, ford solenoid not grounded. I will try that tomorrow, thanks for all the replies.

 

[Bewy]

You can buy a small relay 150 amp rating, cube shape with about 1.5" sides, that does everything the ugly, current gorging Ferd sol does....

 

[Zcuda68]

Hey guys just getting back to the car. 67Dart273 nailed it. Ford solenoid Not being grounded was the issue, I mounted it to my plastic battery box and didn't even think about grounding it. Thanks all for replies. You guys are great!

 

[67Dart273]

Oh WOW!! "Easy fix" as the internet says. Congrats!!!