Somethings the site does that I don't agree

[JD’sBarracuda]

I recently asked 2 questions and for pictures on a car for sale thread for a friend interested in the car. My friend asked me if I thought the car was a real 340 car as claimed having original 391's. After the seller answered my questions on the open forum and provided pictures for all to see. The proof was evident the car was a rebodied restoration.

My posts were then taken down to hide the facts of the car not being the real deal 340 car. His own answer and pictures prove the hidden truth. But a site moderator helped him deceive other potential buyers on this site.

Instead of my posts being removed I would think his deceiving sale thread should be taken down or corrected. When did we decide to help members sell their clones when they clearly are. Remember this. All 340 cars came with drip rail chrome so when there is a painted filler piece still on the drip rail seam it usually didn't have the chrome from new.

Plus all 340 cars came with a factory right side exhaust hanger. Sure the hanger can be added but when the phillips screw that holds it in place was never there then it was usually added. This car never had the hanger at all and still didn't have one by the sellers own admission. And still the seller is allowed to sell his car as a original 391 car on this site. If we are going to enforce rules that should be one of the most important to enforce. No Fakes sold on this site unless stated as one.

Members pointing out discrepancies on this site is why people come here for advise due to the knowledge and honesty. When did that change to allow deceit. I believe that sale thread should be corrected or taken down not hide the truth for the seller just because it was built by a magazine years ago. Beware of fakes they are out there.

Completely agree

 

[barbee6043]

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Backup to about 1990 Missouri, I had a bud that we had traded some cars/parts back and forth a little. I remember the first time he showed me his 71 hemi Roadrunner, he had bought new. He stored it in the drive out basement of his double wide. Kind of a secret. Of course, I eyeballed the fender tag quickly and it said R and then I noticed the door stickers vin said V. I did not say anything, but he then added the comment " yea it came that way from the factory!" I just thought "wow!"
A few years later another friend of mine bought it, he was a big time hemi guy and flipper....he sold it a week later, for a big price this was mid 90s.
Sad part was he admitted he put about 1 million $ worth of coke up his nose before he got clean. More than a few hemi cars he had horded since the 70s, 80s.

 

[ajarofclay]

I recently asked 2 questions and for pictures on a car for sale thread for a friend interested in the car. My friend asked me if I thought the car was a real 340 car as claimed having original 391's. After the seller answered my questions on the open forum and provided pictures for all to see. The proof was evident the car was a rebodied restoration.

My posts were then taken down to hide the facts of the car not being the real deal 340 car. His own answer and pictures prove the hidden truth. But a site moderator helped him deceive other potential buyers on this site.

Instead of my posts being removed I would think his deceiving sale thread should be taken down or corrected. When did we decide to help members sell their clones when they clearly are. Remember this. All 340 cars came with drip rail chrome so when there is a painted filler piece still on the drip rail seam it usually didn't have the chrome from new.

Plus all 340 cars came with a factory right side exhaust hanger. Sure the hanger can be added but when the phillips screw that holds it in place was never there then it was usually added. This car never had the hanger at all and still didn't have one by the sellers own admission. And still the seller is allowed to sell his car as a original 391 car on this site. If we are going to enforce rules that should be one of the most important to enforce. No Fakes sold on this site unless stated as one.

Members pointing out discrepancies on this site is why people come here for advise due to the knowledge and honesty. When did that change to allow deceit. I believe that sale thread should be corrected or taken down not hide the truth for the seller just because it was built by a magazine years ago. Beware of fakes they are out there.

Needs to be a heart emoji for this post

 

[barbee6043]

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Backup to about 1990 Missouri, I had a bud that we had traded some cars/parts back and forth a little. I remember the first time he showed me his 71 hemi Roadrunner, he had bought new. He stored it in the drive out basement of his double wide. Kind of a secret. Of course, I eyeballed the fender tag quickly and it said R and then I noticed the door stickers vin said V. I did not say anything, but he then added the comment " yea it came that way from the factory!" I just thought "wow!"
A few years later another friend of mine bought it, he was a big time hemi guy and flipper....he sold it a week later, for a big price this was mid 90s.
Sad part was he admitted he put about 1 million $ worth of coke up his nose before he got clean. More than a few hemi cars he had horded since the 70s, 80s.

One guy just messaged me and asked if I thought it was a real hemi RR. Or not. I told him I figured it was a factory screw up, for sure. Yea, I know it was a real hemi RR.

I would also bet real 340 Dusters came factory with dual exhaust.

Years ago I built a 318 Duster out of a slant car, before it was popular. I built it for me. Got the car from a friend in town that bought it new. I should have just keep; it original. I was bored. I also welded in the bracket for the dual exhaust, just for me, no one was trying to fool people back, then, the "clone: was not even invented quite yet. Heck back them few people even lusted for a real 340 A body. Too many big block whatever cars around, even the 67-9 BB A body was not that hard to find...cheap enough.

 

[OneOfMany]

I also welded in the bracket for the dual exhaust, just for me, no one was trying to fool people back, then, the "clone: was not even invented quite ye

Exactly. I just don't believe that someone would "remove" one, regardless of whether their new exhaust system used it. If so, they would for sure have removed the ds one to match both sides for appearance sake.

 

[MILO]

The old gray mare aint what she use to be

 

[pink340swinger]

I didn't read all the comments on this thread, but I owned a 69 dart swinger 340 with out the drip rail chrome. I also own one with the chrome but it was a vinyl top car. My 70 Dart Swinger 340 4-speed FM3 Panther car does not have the drip rail chrome, but both of my 68 GTS Darts have it.

 

[72bluNblu]

So the whole basis for calling out a possible fraudulent sale is

1. "Missing" drip rail trim that turns out to be optional and definitely wasn't on every 340 car, so that's no proof of any fraud at all
2. A missing exhaust bracket

Have I got that right? That's it?

A '69 Dart is 56 years old. 56. A lot can happen in 56 years. Why would someone replace an exhaust hanger? Maybe the exhaust got caught on something and it was damaged. Maybe the weld job was for crap and it broke (like that's never happened on these cars). Maybe the floor was replaced because of rust. Maybe somebody cut it off because the exhaust was a rusty POS one of the times it was restored and they chopped it all out. Maybe someone put a single exhaust on it and tried to convince their insurance company back in the '70's to reduce their premium because it was a 318? Who the hell knows. 56 years is a long time, and for more than half that time a 340 A-body wasn't all that special. Hell Car Craft got the entire car in a trade for a Muncie 4 speed! I'm sure there are a heck of a lot of people out there that wouldn't have been all that concerned about removing a passenger exhaust hanger and who would have had no idea it was some litmus test for a real 340 car. I mean, clearly the guy that traded it for a Muncie didn't think too much of it.

The simple fact is the car in question has been restored multiple times and according to Car Craft has had been through "a few owners and more than a little abuse" since they restored it. There are perfectly legitimate reasons why the original exhaust hanger might not still be present on a car that has been restored on multiple occasions in 56 years. The current owner not knowing those reasons doesn't make the car a re-body.

And look, I'm not saying it's original. I don't know, and I'd want to check a whole bunch of stuff before I dropped $50k on a car. I suppose someone could get all the original magazine articles on it and see if there's anything relevant in there. Or track down every owner it's ever had and ask them. Or maybe check all the other things that would indicate that it's a legit 340 car, other than just a single exhaust bracket.

Saying it's a fraudulent sale though? Over a single exhaust bracket? That's facts not in evidence. That's a pretty serious accusation based on pretty much nothing.

 

[Swinger 340]

I recently asked 2 questions and for pictures on a car for sale thread for a friend interested in the car. My friend asked me if I thought the car was a real 340 car as claimed having original 391's. After the seller answered my questions on the open forum and provided pictures for all to see. The proof was evident the car was a rebodied restoration.

My posts were then taken down to hide the facts of the car not being the real deal 340 car. His own answer and pictures prove the hidden truth. But a site moderator helped him deceive other potential buyers on this site.

Instead of my posts being removed I would think his deceiving sale thread should be taken down or corrected. When did we decide to help members sell their clones when they clearly are. Remember this. All 340 cars came with drip rail chrome so when there is a painted filler piece still on the drip rail seam it usually didn't have the chrome from new.

Plus all 340 cars came with a factory right side exhaust hanger. Sure the hanger can be added but when the phillips screw that holds it in place was never there then it was usually added. This car never had the hanger at all and still didn't have one by the sellers own admission. And still the seller is allowed to sell his car as a original 391 car on this site. If we are going to enforce rules that should be one of the most important to enforce. No Fakes sold on this site unless stated as one.

Members pointing out discrepancies on this site is why people come here for advise due to the knowledge and honesty. When did that change to allow deceit. I believe that sale thread should be corrected or taken down not hide the truth for the seller just because it was built by a magazine years ago. Beware of fakes they are out there.

Buyer beware!!!!! I agree, if a saling item can be deceitful, in an ad, we have the right to say differently on the item.

 

[Swinger 340]

So the whole basis for calling out a possible fraudulent sale is

1. "Missing" drip rail trim that turns out to be optional and definitely wasn't on every 340 car, so that's no proof of any fraud at all
2. A missing exhaust bracket

Have I got that right? That's it?

A '69 Dart is 56 years old. 56. A lot can happen in 56 years. Why would someone replace an exhaust hanger? Maybe the exhaust got caught on something and it was damaged. Maybe the weld job was for crap and it broke (like that's never happened on these cars). Maybe the floor was replaced because of rust. Maybe somebody cut it off because the exhaust was a rusty POS one of the times it was restored and they chopped it all out. Maybe someone put a single exhaust on it and tried to convince their insurance company back in the '70's to reduce their premium because it was a 318? Who the hell knows. 56 years is a long time, and for more than half that time a 340 A-body wasn't all that special. Hell Car Craft got the entire car in a trade for a Muncie 4 speed! I'm sure there are a heck of a lot of people out there that wouldn't have been all that concerned about removing a passenger exhaust hanger and who would have had no idea it was some litmus test for a real 340 car. I mean, clearly the guy that traded it for a Muncie didn't think too much of it.

The simple fact is the car in question has been restored multiple times and according to Car Craft has had been through "a few owners and more than a little abuse" since they restored it. There are perfectly legitimate reasons why the original exhaust hanger might not still be present on a car that has been restored on multiple occasions in 56 years. The current owner not knowing those reasons doesn't make the car a re-body.

And look, I'm not saying it's original. I don't know, and I'd want to check a whole bunch of stuff before I dropped $50k on a car. I suppose someone could get all the original magazine articles on it and see if there's anything relevant in there. Or track down every owner it's ever had and ask them. Or maybe check all the other things that would indicate that it's a legit 340 car, other than just a single exhaust bracket.

Saying it's a fraudulent sale though? Over a single exhaust bracket? That's facts not in evidence. That's a pretty serious accusation based on pretty much nothing.

Body numbers usually don't lie. If you are going to spend a lot of money on a car, do your homework. The word "RESTORED" is overused. A restored car should have all the correct parts or items that came with that car. "REBUILT" may be a better terminology for this car.

 

[Swinger 340]

In regards to comments being removed, my comment was also removed. I stated that not all 340 dart swingers came with roof rail drip moldings. I believe that it will be on the fender tag (M21). I have an original paint car without said moldings. It was an option on a 340 swinger. Still have the car and had at least one other the same. I also stated I didn't want to this to turn into an argument but was trying to help both parties out. If the numbers on the body, vin tag, and fender tag match its a good chance it's legit. No guarantee that these numbers weren't transferred or transplanted. Attached pics of my original paint car. Hopefully you can see the roof rail.
Good luck to all

View attachment 1716464701

View attachment 1716464702

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I believe it depended on if the car came with a vinyl top or not. My 69' has the vinyl top, with stainless drip rails and my 70', that was only painted does not.

 

[Swinger 340]

I agree. I think he does too. Just ONE of those things he mentioned? I don't know. But he mentioned TWO different things. And to me, the exhaust bracket is kinda an end all be all. That's the kinda thing that'd really make me LOOK a LOT closer. Or walk away.

No, right side under carriage exhaust bracket would be a red flag to look deeper into the build sheet. If the panel was changed out, I would think the bracket would have been transferred over also. If there were holes in the panel for a bracket, but no bracket, then it could have been defected and removed. There are many other items, a 340car had than the others. A welded washer on the K-member for one. Someone said the 340 had a 9" brake drum on the rear, not on any 340 I ever seen, 10" was the way and not all 340's were disc in the front, mine had four way 10" drum. I changed to front disc.

 

[Swinger 340]

One guy just messaged me and asked if I thought it was a real hemi RR. Or not. I told him I figured it was a factory screw up, for sure. Yea, I know it was a real hemi RR.

I would also bet real 340 Dusters came factory with dual exhaust.

Years ago I built a 318 Duster out of a slant car, before it was popular. I built it for me. Got the car from a friend in town that bought it new. I should have just keep; it original. I was bored. I also welded in the bracket for the dual exhaust, just for me, no one was trying to fool people back, then, the "clone: was not even invented quite yet. Heck back them few people even lusted for a real 340 A body. Too many big block whatever cars around, even the 67-9 BB A body was not that hard to find...cheap enough.

Those right body exhaust brackets were bolted on I believe, not welded.

 

[barbee6043]

Those right body exhaust brackets were bolted on I believe, not welded.

Could be. I was thinking they were welded, but I have forgot 80% of what I did know!!

 

[OneOfMany]

The simple fact is the car in question has been restored multiple times and according to Car Craft has had been through "a few owners and more than a little abuse" since they restored it.

Yes. The car was restored by cc in 1984. That makes it 15yrs old at the time. The Mecum sale I linked from 2022 lists the VIN and the description also says matching numbers engine.
If the car has it's original engine, the likelihood that during the original restoration someone removed the bracket, even if that area of the pan needed replacing, and did not reuse it when putting the original engine back in is highly suspect.

Further to looking for other items that are unique to 340 cars, with the exception of bolt ons like springs, brakes/rear, dash and fendertag there are only a couple of things. Body numbers, right exhaust bracket, and possibly torque boxes (and being a small block automatic, these were normally not installed). I don't believe a coin was on the k member until 1970, but I stand to be corrected if so.

 

[72bluNblu]

Body numbers usually don't lie. If you are going to spend a lot of money on a car, do your homework. The word "RESTORED" is overused. A restored car should have all the collect parts or items that came with that car. "REBUILT" may be a better terminology for this car.

"restored" is a very broad category, there are levels to restoration. Concourse restoration, for example, would mean all original/date coded parts in most cases. People will say it's had a "rotisserie restoration", well, that means something different too and I'd expect the bottom of the car to be nicer, right? I would not expect a car that's just been "restored" to be all original or date code correct, that is the most strict sense of the word. Clearly the car in question has not been restored back to factory or concourse levels, but it's pretty far beyond just a rebuild.

Yes. The car was restored by cc in 1984. That makes it 15yrs old at the time. The Mecum sale I linked from 2022 lists the VIN and the description also says matching numbers engine.
If the car has it's original engine, the likelihood that during the original restoration someone removed the bracket, even if that area of the pan needed replacing, and did not reuse it when putting the original engine back in is highly suspect.

Further to looking for other items that are unique to 340 cars, with the exception of bolt ons like springs, brakes/rear, dash and fendertag there are only a couple of things. Body numbers, right exhaust bracket, and possibly torque boxes (and being a small block automatic, these were normally not installed). I don't believe a coin was on the k member until 1970, but I stand to be corrected if so.

Right, but in 1984 how many people gave a flip about an original exhaust hanger? Not nearly as many as now, that's for sure. And a magazine restoration? More about the deadlines and the print than making it a gold concourse car. Again, this car was in a condition such that the owner didn't think twice about trading it for a rebuilt Muncie.

The washer/"coin" on the 340 K's appears to have started in '68 sometime, at least according to other 340 owners 69 340 k member? Help

But, the presence of the washer and the torque boxes was not 100%. There are legitimate 340 cars without them. They may be the exceptions, but, my point is there are exceptions. Which is why taking a single item and calling fraud if it's not present is silly on these cars. The factory did not have the level of diligence as some of our purists do now. A single missing thing doesn't make a fraudulent deal. If multiple things were missing then sure, my index of suspicion would go up with each item. But ultimately, if the numbers on the body, engine and transmission match, well, that's a pretty good argument for being a legit 340 car. Better than it not being one just because a 56 year old car that's been rebuilt/restored multiple times came out missing an exhaust hanger at some point. I mean how many cars are missing fender tags because they were lost at the shop or by a previous owner? You'd think that would be more important than an exhaust hanger, and people lose fender tags all the time.

 

[340sFastback]

I would be suspicious if the exhaust hanger is missing. But I wouldn't just jump to the conclusion its a re-body because its missing.

At 50k asking price for a low option 340 automatic Dart the car needs a full visual inspection to verify.

Probably safe to say magazine did a minimum get the car looking decent and running just good enough for a give away car. Who did what to that car over the years who knows.....

 

[Cranky]

I'm so glad I never got into the 'numbers matching VIN tag build sheet info' and just had fun with the cars!!! I did sell a car that was all original according to the build sheeeeet etc because I didn't want to listen to all the haters of someone who cared about that stuff. Thing is, the buyer changed a lot of stuff on the car anyways. Go figure!

 

[WymanV]

My '72 H code Duster didn't have torque boxes installed. I made up a set out of 16 gauge before replacements were commercially available.

Not that I cared. The original engine was long gone before I got the car so "correct" didn't matter. The K frame is a replacement for the bent original so there's no washer there. I could've easily welded one on, but why? The whole idea behind my build was to build a car I like, not a car that's valuable. It's valuable to me and what else matters?

 

[72bluNblu]

I'm so glad I never got into the 'numbers matching VIN tag build sheet info' and just had fun with the cars!!! I did sell a car that was all original according to the build sheeeeet etc because I didn't want to listen to all the haters of someone who cared about that stuff. Thing is, the buyer changed a lot of stuff on the car anyways. Go figure!

My '72 H code Duster didn't have torque boxes installed. I made up a set out of 16 gauge before replacements were commercially available.

Not that I cared. The original engine was long gone before I got the car so "correct" didn't matter. The K frame is a replacement for the bent original so there's no washer there. I could've easily welded one on, but why? The whole idea behind my build was to build a car I like, not a car that's valuable. It's valuable to me and what else matters?

Totally understand on both accounts, I have two cars with all of their major numbers matching and quite frankly I should sell both of them because it's just not my jam. Much happier with my non-number matching cars that I can do whatever I want to without anyone thinking twice.

That being said, for $50k a '69 340 Dart is going to need to have some documentation and evidence that it is actually what the seller says it is. But that has its issues, because good old Ma Mopar was pretty far from perfect when it came to rules and exceptions. I mean, I definitely wouldn't call anyone a fraud because they're missing an exhaust hanger 56 years after the fact. There are so many perfectly legitimate reasons why that could have happened it just makes no sense at all to get worked up about it. Yeah, if you're the one buying it you should check the numbers.

But getting in a twist over an exhaust hanger on someone else's sale thread? C'mon. The car has been redone multiple times now. Any evidence of the presence or absence of an original exhaust hanger would be dubious at best. Doesn't mean the car isn't legit. Doesn't mean it is either. I'd be far more concerned about the VIN and body numbers matching. Beyond that, Ma Mopar wasn't nearly consistent enough to call someone a fraud over it. And more than that, I'd be far more concerned about the quality of the work done, because clearly a lot of work has been done. That's what's going to bite you in the ***, not whether or not a hanger went missing or was never there.

 

[Cranky]

Totally understand on both accounts, I have two cars with all of their major numbers matching and quite frankly I should sell both of them because it's just not my jam. Much happier with my non-number matching cars that I can do whatever I want to without anyone thinking twice.

That being said, for $50k a '69 340 Dart is going to need to have some documentation and evidence that it is actually what the seller says it is. But that has its issues, because good old Ma Mopar was pretty far from perfect when it came to rules and exceptions. I mean, I definitely wouldn't call anyone a fraud because they're missing an exhaust hanger 56 years after the fact. There are so many perfectly legitimate reasons why that could have happened it just makes no sense at all to get worked up about it. Yeah, if you're the one buying it you should check the numbers.

But getting in a twist over an exhaust hanger on someone else's sale thread? C'mon. The car has been redone multiple times now. Any evidence of the presence or absence of an original exhaust hanger would be dubious at best. Doesn't mean the car isn't legit. Doesn't mean it is either. I'd be far more concerned about the VIN and body numbers matching. Beyond that, Ma Mopar wasn't nearly consistent enough to call someone a fraud over it. And more than that, I'd be far more concerned about the quality of the work done, because clearly a lot of work has been done. That's what's going to bite you in the ***, not whether or not a hanger went missing or was never there.

I can imagine a car/cars being built without a 'correct' hanger when things didn't go well on the line and that happened many times. A buddy of mine bought a 65 Mudstain with all the V8 underpinnings but the car was a 6 banger. I have found a 318 car that had torque boxes. Think about what happened during a union strike when the 'white' collars got on the lines to keep on punching out cars. You don't think that happened....?? LOLOL Doesn't anyone here know anyone that worked on the lines back then??

 

[RustyRatRod]

I can imagine a car/cars being built without a 'correct' hanger when things didn't go well on the line and that happened many times. A buddy of mine bought a 65 Mudstain with all the V8 underpinnings but the car was a 6 banger. I have found a 318 car that had torque boxes. Think about what happened during a union strike when the 'white' collars got on the lines to keep on punching out cars. You don't think that happened....?? LOLOL Doesn't anyone here know anyone that worked on the lines back then??

@Oldmanmopar has already said he did. @krazykuda Karl has also.

 

[Swinger 340]

"restored" is a very broad category, there are levels to restoration. Concourse restoration, for example, would mean all original/date coded parts in most cases. People will say it's had a "rotisserie restoration", well, that means something different too and I'd expect the bottom of the car to be nicer, right? I would not expect a car that's just been "restored" to be all original or date code correct, that is the most strict sense of the word. Clearly the car in question has not been restored back to factory or concourse levels, but it's pretty far beyond just a rebuild.



Right, but in 1984 how many people gave a flip about an original exhaust hanger? Not nearly as many as now, that's for sure. And a magazine restoration? More about the deadlines and the print than making it a gold concourse car. Again, this car was in a condition such that the owner didn't think twice about trading it for a rebuilt Muncie.

The washer/"coin" on the 340 K's appears to have started in '68 sometime, at least according to other 340 owners 69 340 k member? Help

But, the presence of the washer and the torque boxes was not 100%. There are legitimate 340 cars without them. They may be the exceptions, but, my point is there are exceptions. Which is why taking a single item and calling fraud if it's not present is silly on these cars. The factory did not have the level of diligence as some of our purists do now. A single missing thing doesn't make a fraudulent deal. If multiple things were missing then sure, my index of suspicion would go up with each item. But ultimately, if the numbers on the body, engine and transmission match, well, that's a pretty good argument for being a legit 340 car. Better than it not being one just because a 56 year old car that's been rebuilt/restored multiple times came out missing an exhaust hanger at some point. I mean how many cars are missing fender tags because they were lost at the shop or by a previous owner? You'd think that would be more important than an exhaust hanger, and people lose fender tags all the time.

Torque boxes came on the 4 speed cars not the automatics.

 

[72bluNblu]

I can imagine a car/cars being built without a 'correct' hanger when things didn't go well on the line and that happened many times. A buddy of mine bought a 65 Mudstain with all the V8 underpinnings but the car was a 6 banger. I have found a 318 car that had torque boxes. Think about what happened during a union strike when the 'white' collars got on the lines to keep on punching out cars. You don't think that happened....?? LOLOL Doesn't anyone here know anyone that worked on the lines back then??

Right? Anyone that says that EVERY car came a certain way and there were no exceptions isn't being realistic. Hell there's a member here that said his '70 340 Dart 4 speed had 3 of the 4 torque boxes installed and no braces on one side for the bucket seats it came with.

torque boxes

@Oldmanmopar has already said he did. @krazykuda Karl has also.

Yeah, things were supposed to be a certain way. But it was an assembly line in the 60's/70's, and there are exceptions for every rule. Multiple factories, multiple lines, many years of assembly, sub-par employees, trainees, you name it. Anyone that says that every car was perfect is insane, it's well documented that many were not.

Could a car have left the factory without an exhaust hanger? I would absolutely bet one could have. Does that mean the car in question did? No idea. But using an exhaust hanger to call a guy a fraud on a 56 year old car that's been restored at least twice? That's more than a stretch, that's just flat out rude. Like I said, facts not in evidence. I'm not saying the car is original, I'm not saying it isn't. But accusing someone of fraud because of a missing exhaust hanger? There's gotta be a hundred legit reasons for a hanger like that not to be original.

Torque boxes came on the 4 speed cars not the automatics.

And yet there are several members here with 340 cars that were factory automatics and had torque boxes. And a member with a 340 stick car that had 3 torque boxes. And another that says his car had rear torque boxes and no fronts. And without a lot more evidence, I don't have a reason to doubt any of them. Orders were changed on the line, stuff got installed and then things changed. And yeah, **** happens. Monday morning and Friday afternoon cars are a real thing.

TORQUE BOXES ?

torque boxes

 

[RustyRatRod]

Right? Anyone that says that EVERY car came a certain way and there were no exceptions isn't being realistic. Hell there's a member here that said his '70 340 Dart 4 speed had 3 of the 4 torque boxes installed and no braces on one side for the bucket seats it came with.

torque boxes



Yeah, things were supposed to be a certain way. But it was an assembly line in the 60's/70's, and there are exceptions for every rule. Multiple factories, multiple lines, many years of assembly, sub-par employees, trainees, you name it. Anyone that says that every car was perfect is insane, it's well documented that many were not.

Could a car have left the factory without an exhaust hanger? I would absolutely bet one could have. Does that mean the car in question did? No idea. But using an exhaust hanger to call a guy a fraud on a 56 year old car that's been restored at least twice? That's more than a stretch, that's just flat out rude. Like I said, facts not in evidence. I'm not saying the car is original, I'm not saying it isn't. But accusing someone of fraud because of a missing exhaust hanger? There's gotta be a hundred legit reasons for a hanger like that not to be original.



And yet there are several members here with 340 cars that were factory automatics and had torque boxes. And a member with a 340 stick car that had 3 torque boxes. And another that says his car had rear torque boxes and no fronts. And without a lot more evidence, I don't have a reason to doubt any of them. Orders were changed on the line, stuff got installed and then things changed. And yeah, **** happens. Monday morning and Friday afternoon cars are a real thing.

TORQUE BOXES ?

torque boxes

You know it! Just like someone couldda ordered cars a certain way back then that they cannot now. You know, like Hemi station wagons and such?