joes68340s
Well-Known Member
I have read article there is no mention of front torsion bar change. Or what bar they are running. This was a change from drag race suspension to handling. I think the rate of the torsion bars would be important.
Hotchkis TVS for A-Body's!
- Thread starter redlinegw
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redlinegw
Shannon
Stock A-body V8 torsion bars with a small block is what is in my car and it feels like it is on rails. I guess if you are going to put a big block in you may want to get different ones. Once I swap my seat and convert to power steering I am going to race the car all the time. I am going to install a Paxton Supercharger this summer as well. Woo Hoo!
PacificScamp
'71 Scamp
So I am just posting this for easy tracking when I come back to it later for in-depth review...& to bump it!
This is the link to the Car Craft article:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticle...upgrade_on_a_1969_plymouth_valiant/index.html
This is the link to the Car Craft article:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticle...upgrade_on_a_1969_plymouth_valiant/index.html
Looks like their system did well at the Motor State Challenge : http://www.hotchkis.net/press_release.html?ID=40
Hack
Active Member
Beat Keisler KUDA(XV level 1 and firm feel stuff) and the Green Brick (E-Bergs recipe). I wonder if any RMS suspension equipped Mopars were there ?
DartorDemon
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anyone else surprised to see that a 69' camaro edged out an Ultima GT(supercar)
autoxcuda
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The silver 72 Charger has full XV Level 2 suspension.
rokketride
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Not at all if familiar with the car. Here is the build thread.
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=20693
demonduster
Well-Known Member
Here is a link http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69695
Excerpt from the article:"Hotchkis trekked all the way from California with their familiar yellow Challenger and ran fourth overall in road course qualifying. The performance of that car is nothing short of amazing given that it only runs bolt on Hotchkis suspension parts like torsion bars, leaf springs and sta-bars".
Looks like Torsion bars, sway bars, leaf springs, shocks and a good set of low profile tires still CAN get the job done. Of course a little tweaking to make sure everything is right ( Chassis stiffening, alignments, height and travel) and some driving talent are needed also.
Excerpt from the article:"Hotchkis trekked all the way from California with their familiar yellow Challenger and ran fourth overall in road course qualifying. The performance of that car is nothing short of amazing given that it only runs bolt on Hotchkis suspension parts like torsion bars, leaf springs and sta-bars".
Looks like Torsion bars, sway bars, leaf springs, shocks and a good set of low profile tires still CAN get the job done. Of course a little tweaking to make sure everything is right ( Chassis stiffening, alignments, height and travel) and some driving talent are needed also.
autoxcuda
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Excactly.
A lot of the Camaros in that competition were nothing more than a custom chassis with a Camaro body draped over it. Kit cars with big $$$$ thrown at them.
i drove this car at the peach state musclecar challenge. holy hell does it handle for a big car!! bill howell owns it. i pulled comparable times with my stock type setup and no race tires. it is a big car,but about a $60,000 car! i ran times close to c6 a vette,rousch 'stang,and high end camaro's. we'll see what happens at run through the hills in august!
rednesss
Well-Known Member
I wish they had machined a spot for a wrench on the strut bar somewhere, you can't turn them very easily once you get them on to lengthen or shorten the bar. My only gripe. I have the same on my cuda.
autoxcuda
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rednesss
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They seat pretty good to the lower control arm after you tighten them up once, I had to loosen the nut up pretty good and give it a whack to pop it loose before I could turn it by hand.
autoxcuda
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I learned one trick blueprinting type move the Hotchkis guy told me about the Poly lower control arm (LCA) bushings and the Hotchkis Adjustable Strut Rod .
The Mopar Poly lower control arm bushings are really a plain bearing that only allows the LCA to move on on vertical path up and down. If the strut rod pulls the LCA too far forward the movement of the LCA will be in bind. Or if the strut rod is adjusted too far back there will be a gap (slop) between the LCA bushing and the K-frame.
So what you do is pull the LCA bushing and control arm foward against the K-member hole near ride height. Then adjust the Hotchkis Adjustable Strut Rod too short with the jam nut all the way out.
Next pull the LCA against the K-member again and move the LCA up and down. Keep pulling the LCA foward until you feel the bushing binding a little. Last you adjust the Hotchkis Strut Rod out until it touches the K-member so you will end up with the optimun bind free adjustment.
Now with the T-bar loose, you can grab the whole suspension and move it up and down freely. No bind or unpredicable spring rate from twisting rubber or deflected poly bushings.
I like the Hotchkiss kit here. The reason it works so well is because it's not a huge departure from the factory design. So many times when we modify something factory designed, we think we're making an improvement, when we're going the other way. The factory setup was a lot closer than what most people realize and is really tough to improve upon. This is why when you see something like this that actually WORKS there is a high price tag. It takes a lot of R&D to make real improvements on the factory design and this system seems to deliver. I've never really liked the touring and road race scene.....but honestly, this kit might just make my long list. Since my car is gonna be 100% street driven, this mod would make it more FUN. My question to the guys here who have the kit is.....how is the ride quality? Also, can you load up the trunk with groceries and not have to worry about ground clearance or rubbing issues?
PanGasket
has cork sides
So whats the opinion on the one TVS kit on summit? is it cheaper by alot?
autoxcuda
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I've allready had lots of suspension mods done to my car over the last 16 years (since 1994). With those mods I've driven it 70,000 miles, daily commutted 80 miles round trip through Los Angeles for 4 years, driving it from L.A. to Iowa and back 4 times, snow/salt/rain/sleet, been to 14 different states, etc, etc.
My Cuda has had lots of combinations of tires, rims, shocks, swaybars. Like I've run no less than 4 different rims sizes, 4 tires sizes, 4 different brands of shocks (Herb Adams, Koni, KYB, QA1), 4 Swaybars (early stock, late stock, 1 1/8, 1 1/4). This is not the first suspension setup on my Cuda. Not hardly.
Well, I'm really impressed at the improvements that the Hotchkis TVS made. After all that fiddling around for 16 years this is hands down the best.
For all that time, my car had .99" torsion bars. Those are 65% more spring rate than stock. It's a stiffer ride, but not like you might think. BUT the shocks didn't seem to control things. When I hit long bumps or dips the seatbelt would pull me down and stuff like that.
Now with the TVS and there system, I don't feel that.
The kicker is I just installed 1.14" torsion bars with the TVS system. !!:shock: Ok, those are BIG bars. Those are THREE TIMES stock rate and 57% more rate than the .99" t-bars. Those are way bigger than I would expect most to run on thier car...
You know, with the TVS system the big T-bars are nicer riding than the smaller .99 T-bars. I was sort of shocked. With .99 bars it would be even better.
I really notice how good it tracks on long soft freeway/interstate curves.
I'm still got to put some more miles on it. And I'm going to have some friends drive it and see what they think too.
Anyone here near Simi Valley, Ca what to drive it?
dusterbd13
Well-Known Member
hmmm....
im looking at doing some more upgrades to mine. im just not happy with the way it drives.
first stop is 17X8 wheels, 275/40/17 rear and 255/40/17 front.
ive used hotchkis stuff on my projects before, and liked them. always wondered if you could do the same cheaper, though.
the spring rate for the hotchkis leafs is the same as the mopar circle track springs. i understand that the design is slightly different bethween the two, but is the improvement in the design or in the spring rate?
next, the UCA's. the hotchkis pieces are designed with more negative camber and positive caster in mind. any other benifits? could i get there with stock UCA's and the offset moog bushings?
hotchkis strut rods: how are they different from the standard adjustables im running now?
the sway bars and shocks are obvious.
im also running big block torsion bars in mine, and KYB's. never liked the turn in or handling ive had in the car since the resto, but then again my tires are 10 years ols, 60 series 15's, and my alignemnt is crap.
anyway, some input on the differences would be appreciated before i spend money i dont have to get where i should have gone in the first place.
michael
im looking at doing some more upgrades to mine. im just not happy with the way it drives.
first stop is 17X8 wheels, 275/40/17 rear and 255/40/17 front.
ive used hotchkis stuff on my projects before, and liked them. always wondered if you could do the same cheaper, though.
the spring rate for the hotchkis leafs is the same as the mopar circle track springs. i understand that the design is slightly different bethween the two, but is the improvement in the design or in the spring rate?
next, the UCA's. the hotchkis pieces are designed with more negative camber and positive caster in mind. any other benifits? could i get there with stock UCA's and the offset moog bushings?
hotchkis strut rods: how are they different from the standard adjustables im running now?
the sway bars and shocks are obvious.
im also running big block torsion bars in mine, and KYB's. never liked the turn in or handling ive had in the car since the resto, but then again my tires are 10 years ols, 60 series 15's, and my alignemnt is crap.
anyway, some input on the differences would be appreciated before i spend money i dont have to get where i should have gone in the first place.
michael
autoxcuda
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IIRC, you have dropped spindles? Is that why you are staying 255/40/17 in the front?
Both. I think the Hotchkis leafs have a drop front eyelet and two big leafs under the main leaf for anti wrap up. AND one big left on TOP of the mail leaf to keep the rear end from hopping under hard braking into a corner.
ALSO, the Hotchkis Leaf Springs are a lot lighter. That's unsprung weight. :-D
Michael, what a clean lookin Duster! Man, you really suck! LOL
autoxcuda
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With the stock upper A-arm with Moog 7103 offset bushing resting on top of the Hotchkis Upper Contol Arms:
I could never get close to this much caster (~6.0 pos) with 1.5 negative camber. BTW this it was 1.5 negative camber equal on both sides. But we triped the lasers and moved the car. It's so sensitive just little thing throw it off.
Since I drive the car a lot we went with 1.5 neg camber. If it were weekend fun only type car they said go with 2.0 neg camber. Also I could/should have went up to 8.0 deg positive caster, but we didn't have time to go back. With the Hotchkis upper A-arms you can get whatever caster and camber combinations your heart desires.
Also, note the picture above how the angle of attack the A-arm legs are the adjuster bolts. If make the A-arm leg straight, you don't get as much alignment adjustment when you adjust the heim joints.
** Another thing situation I've seen from people running adjustable upper A-arms... I've heard of people taking them to alignment shops and the technicians telling the car owner they have to take the A-arm off to adjust caster and camber. I don't think that is true with most these aftermarket arm. I know it's not true with the Hotchkis A-arms, because they keep the factory cam eccentric adjusters for fine tuning of caster/camber. The instructions are clear and tell you how to set the upper control arms before you bolt them in. Then they tell you the spacer to run on the sides of the heim joints. If I wanted more than the 6.0 degrees of postive caster I should/would go back and swap the heim spacer around.
I thought that car looked familier. That is a rad car for sure. pretty much a test bed for the A body kit. isn't it powered by a 360?
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