is there really no replacement for displacement?...

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britdart

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hi FABO, i've had my '70 swinger for almost a year now and she's absolutely wonderful. But she's only got the stock (yet extremely clean) 225 /6. i've always driven faster cars, and although the low end torque is nice, the high end torque simply doesn't exist. She's a brilliant engine, (she lasted 400 miles and back upto lake shasta a few weeks ago) but i really need to get some more power. Is it worth me getting a 2 barrel carb, header exhausts etc (and possibly even a turbocharger) or is it best just to find a 340 to throw in? i'm in no great rush, but if anyone has any opinion on the matter, that'd be great - thanks
 
considering im in the same boat, i had a hard time with the cost. i bought an offy 4bbl intake.. $225. the carb is another few hundered. the 2bbl i had and wish i didnt sell, i got that for cheap but i couldnt see it making that big difference, than headers are a few more hundered for new, after im done paying for the headers and intake setup, i could have easily had a mild small block in there probably making almost double the power. i personally think turbo slants are so cool, but i think thats the only way to make small block numbers with the leaning tower of power. i say either plan for the turbo slant, or get start preparing for the 340.
 
shoot i even was tinkering with the idea of the turbo slant i had the garrett t3/t4 turbo, blow off and all. i sold it all tho unfourtunatly
 
Well you asked for opinions, so here goes. I have all the respect in the world for /6s, but I have yanked them out of the two cars I was keeping.

70 Purple Barracuda I had years ago, was a 3 speed slant, put a warmed up 318 and 904, 8 3/4 in it. Now, 22 years later, it would be really cool if it was original, but not then. The next owner made it a full blown 340 4 speed Cuda clone.

My 68 Barracuda was a /6 car, and I put a 340 in its place. In fact, I just like messing with it, and I have my 3rd motor in it.

The only car I left as a /6, was my daughters 67 FB Barracuda, her high school car. I put an aluminum slant in it for a while, until she blew the head gasket.
 
hi FABO, i've had my '70 swinger for almost a year now and she's absolutely wonderful. But she's only got the stock (yet extremely clean) 225 /6. i've always driven faster cars, and although the low end torque is nice, the high end torque simply doesn't exist. She's a brilliant engine, (she lasted 400 miles and back upto lake shasta a few weeks ago) but i really need to get some more power. Is it worth me getting a 2 barrel carb, header exhausts etc (and possibly even a turbocharger) or is it best just to find a 340 to throw in? i'm in no great rush, but if anyone has any opinion on the matter, that'd be great - thanks


its all personal preference and intended use i would say. personally its just way too easy to pull that slant and drop a small block in the bad boy. i would leave the 340 for the resto crowd and find a 360 for it if it was mine.
 
There's no EASY replacement for displacement. If you don't get carried away with fuel injection and expensive turbochargers you can boost a slant six up to small block power levels for less than swapping in a V8. The rub is that you need to know what you're doing and how to set up everything for boost.

On the other hand, if you hunt down bargains on parts and a decent engine you can swap in a V8 pretty cheap too. It all depends on how much you know and how much work you're willing to do.
 
is there really no replacement for displacement?...

For the search of power? No. Except! Turbo or supercharging. Though todays tech. has made smaller engine much more powerful and effceint than ever before, it's the upgrading of the old iron to use the new tech is the hard part with the same results being difficult to achieve.

Things like cylinder heads can be improved only so much. Intakes only so much to equal what is used today.
 
[ agree with abodyjoe. 360's are dirt cheap and the conversion is fairly straight forward. Good luck with with what ever way you choose.
 
Careful what you say, the /6 crowd ganged up on me for a 3 page thrashing on that very notion. They also came from slant six.org and signed up and trolled around just to join the bashing freeennzzzzy for ha ha's.
 
Ok,here`s my take,I`ve always been a small block user,had them raced them and loved them,even found cheap ways to make more power,if I had a car with a slant,I took it out tried to put it in the corner,but because of this wierd lean thing they never stayed long cause they kept tipping over,gangly things I thought.
I have had a few given to me recently,and had a thought,thats dangerous,what if I could use one of these things everyone loves to hate? parts are usually pretty plentiful,and usually cheap or free,just what I need.
Enter my wife`s driver a 65 barracuda,when I got it years ago,it was in several baskets,buckets and boxes,just a shell,no doors, hood,even the front suspension K-frame were gone,but it came with a small trailer with parts from at least 4 different barracudas,paid 400 bux,and I started putting things together, naturally it needed a V-8
and a torqueflite, had an 8 1/4" rear,so what if it has 2.45 gears,it is just a driver right,so I put A/C on it,took most parts off her last driver a studebaker with a small Mopar v-8.
The wife was happy and all was well,but several years passed and the 318 roller was getting tired,had a little main rattle in the morning,but still ran fine.
My plan was to put a slant in place of the 318,heck I even had the A/C bracket,so I wouldn`t even have to recover the freon,I built a little 904 using leter A999 stuff even the low gearset,and I kept the lock up,for gas economy,and I had another 8 1/4" with 3.21 and a sure grip,I just kept piling up parts on one side of the garage,so I could do the swap as easy as possible.
then the time came to make the swap,I told the wife she might not be pleased as we were going to put a much less powerful engine in her car,but it would have A/C and a cd player,so she was on board for the swap.
I never got it,I never saw what others did in these funny looking engines,Inever had one that impressed me,so what could change? well I did add the super six option, and when I got the engine it didn`t have a lot of miles,but the cam got water on it and was not useable,I looked and couldn`t find a used one so I called summit,they had an erson cam smallest one they had,so I put it in ,that`s it no milling ,porting nothing,even ran single exhaust,w a 2" pipe,ok so Ihad a small used flowmaster laying around so I welded it on,tailpipe and all,Got it fired,and no leaks everything worked perfect,so far and I went off for a test drive,had to adjust throttle pressure,I like it set tight,and I drove on.
when there was a little area to test to see if throttle pressure was good,I took off normal and hit the gas pedal to the floor,I never had a slant run this well,I know its hard to believe,I`m a v-8 guy but this thing feels like it pulls harder than the 318 that was in here,must be my imagination,cause you know that don`t happen,any ways now I get it,I get the weird leany thing,I think I`ll do another one,it is true we did go from 2.45 to 3.21 but come on a slant.it even pulls good on the highway when you kick it down it to second,and the wife is pleased,lets face it if we want to go fast,we have 2 race cars,just jump in one of those,why make a race car for the street,you can never use it,but this I can use, very decent power for little investment,kinda makes me wonder... if we put a set of headers on...nah better leave it alone,
 
I agree with a couple other posters on here. Depends on where you want to go with your car. If you are an avid restorer and want the numbers matching and everything as original as possible- leave as is. If you are not so concerned with that, you could spend the buca bucks on a 340 $$$$

I was in the same position. I went with a 360 over a 340 because there are a lot around and you can get them for cheap.

Go with your gut!
 
At a given level of tune, there is no replacement for displacement. The long stroke of the 225 is both its strength and weakness. The long stroke is what gives the /6 the deep low end torque. It also creates high piston speeds which restricts how high it will rev without some extra help. Even though there is factory racing experience with the engine, it was not designed for competition.

However, there are a few things that can be done to give the /6 a little more pep. I have a /6 in the 73 that is my daily driver. I know I can slide a V-8 in if I wanted more power (as I did in the Demon), but I'd like to keep the economy of the /6. My plans are to build my first /6 that will represent my thoughts on the matter.

Make it breathe better.
  1. I have already installed an oversize exhaust manifold and a 2¼" exhaust system. It netted additional top speed and 2-3 mpg on the highway. Because I lost carb heat when I installed it and most of my city driving is short trip stuff, city mpg suffered a slight drop.
  2. The build up gets an AussieSpeed SL6 manifold and a 390 cfm Holley. I may install this on the engine in the car. It's a little like putting lipstick on a pig without the intermal modifications.
  3. Clean up the ports and combustion chamber. This requires pulling off the cylinder head, so it waits for the new motor.
  4. The stock cam is okay but restricts air flow. Small engines with low compression are easy to over carb and over cam for street use. When that happens it will actually produce less power and worse fuel economy.
Give it a bigger bang.
  1. With the build up, I plan to increase compression into the 9.0:1 range by milling the block and cylinder head. The /6 is great for this as there is no corresponding milling needed on the intake as on a V-8 engine. This is the most radical of the modifications planned, but, IMO, it will produce the most bang for the buck (exclusive of my labor for Dis/re-assembly).
  2. Replace the cam with one that will allow more complete filling of the cylinder. Because this is not a high revving engine by design and I'm not going radical on modifications, the cam is going to be in the 265º duration and .450 lift range.
One of the other things that can be done to give the car a bit better high-end response is to go to a lower (numerically higher) rear gear ratio.
Your Swinger probably has a 2.76:1 or 2.93:1 rear gear. Going to a 3.23:1 will improve acceleration across the board with a small decrement in fuel mileage. FWIW, I'm sticking with the 2.76 in the 73 because I want to keep the revs down on the highway.
 
Put a nicely built small block in it...Relatively cheap, and pretty easy...You will have the power and sound you want lol...
 
Careful what you say, the /6 crowd ganged up on me for a 3 page thrashing on that very notion. They also came from slant six.org and signed up and trolled around just to join the bashing freeennzzzzy for ha ha's.

haha those guys on slantsix.org get going dont they!!
 
Now hold on there, I'm over at slantsix.org and I must point out that if you want to see a big difference with a slant for a modest price, look no farther then a timing recurve and head work. A timing recurve makes a world of change, especially when it's coupled with a high voltage coil and electronic ignition. Even on stock engines.

Headwork, being the second biggest bang for your buck upgrade, is essential. The head on the /6 was originally intended for the 170, when Chrysler increased the the stroke a whole inch in to acheive 225 C.I. they neglected to design a head to allow more flow. Also factory compression is very low (about 7.4:1) so it is important to CC the chambers and choose with method you want to use to raise compression.

After that, exhaust and carb upgrades becomes the next most responsive upgrade. The amount of head work would determine these choices.

I must say though, slants do have their limits. Naturally aspirated your usually running mid 13's to low 14's. On the other hand, I've seen some forced induction setups do mid to low 9's. Juice also another great way to make power, although it is risky if not done correctly.

As ya'll have said, it's not cheap to build a performance slant although; in my opinion, it's cool and different from the typical V8's. It's really fun to whoop up on small blocks with grannies slant! :snakeman:

Don't get me wrong, I do like small blocks. Sound is every thing to me in a hot rod and let's faces it, no matter what state of tune a slant is in, it never sounds quite the same as a small block. Glass packs and open headers make them sound like angry weed eaters, as where small blocks can pull that off and still sound decent.

It all boils down to taste and budget. I'll have a slant 'till the day I die!
 
haha those guys on slantsix.org get going dont they!!

Yea, don't get me started......

Now hold on there, I'm over at slantsix.org

I must say though, slants do have their limits. Naturally aspirated your usually running mid 13's to low 14's. On the other hand, I've seen some forced induction setups do mid to low 9's. Juice also another great way to make power, although it is risky if not done correctly.

Not accordding to the slew of hate mail I got. Your dead wrong and echo alot of what I had said. So, your wrong, not by me, but by thopse you know over at the oether forum. In fact, I have been told , I'm dead stupid, dumb and a hord of explictits and was also given exacting directions on how to go crew myself and to hell.

Also, according to them, some of them drive 11 second daily drivers.


W-W-W-w-w-w-w-w-w_what ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As ya'll have said, it's not cheap to build a performance slant although; in my opinion, it's cool and different from the typical V8's. It's really fun to whoop up on small blocks with grannies slant! :snakeman:

Not according to the /6 crew, Again, like me, your dead wrong and the above parragraph. (OH HOW DROLE!)

I should have save the E-mails posts and PM's.

I better run and duck again before the posting war starts up again. The zelots and trolls are sure to reappear.

IMO, do what ever you want with the car and just have fun with it. Otherwise, IMO, I don't see the purpose of owning a old car if it isn't fun.
What ever gets your motor running!
 
hi FABO, i've had my '70 swinger for almost a year now and she's absolutely wonderful. But she's only got the stock (yet extremely clean) 225 /6. i've always driven faster cars, and although the low end torque is nice, the high end torque simply doesn't exist. She's a brilliant engine, (she lasted 400 miles and back upto lake shasta a few weeks ago) but i really need to get some more power. Is it worth me getting a 2 barrel carb, header exhausts etc (and possibly even a turbocharger) or is it best just to find a 340 to throw in? i'm in no great rush, but if anyone has any opinion on the matter, that'd be great - thanks

How fast do you want to go? A little more compression, some head work, 2 1/4" exhaust and a 2 bbl or 4 bbl carb will do a lot. I'll use my '67 Valiant as an example. Milling the head .080" got the compression ratio up to 8.5:1, put a used Holley 390 on a used Offy intake and had 2 1/4" exhaust run off the stock manifold. I ported the head myself and had the machine shop install 1.70/1.44" valves. I took over 2 seconds of my pathetic low 19 second 1/4 mile this way. It's still not fast, but it's much more fun to drive. I'm still running the original 1967 short block and cam. The column shifted 3-speed is interesting, but it would be quicker with a Torqueflite. If I want to go faster I'll up the compression a bit more and run a hotter cam, but then the 3-speed would really start hurting me.
 
as long as you have fun,its` like asking which small block is better 340 or 360,they are both mopar and both excellent designs,as far as the guy worrin so much about what other people say or think,if you see a pile of poop on the path of life,you can walk by it or you can put a stick in it and stir it up,the results are predictable.
 
Hell Britdart why limit yourself to a small block, go for the throat and put some "big iron" in there.

Whatever it is enjoy it, now go roast those tires.:burnout:
 
Hell Britdart why limit yourself to a small block, go for the throat and put some "big iron" in there.

Whatever it is enjoy it, now go roast those tires.:burnout:

Saw the title of the thread and knew I would find you here.Did ya have a good holiday? Good to see ya back.8)
 
Saw the title of the thread and knew I would find you here.Did ya have a good holiday? Good to see ya back.8)

Hey Dave, yup had a great holiday for 8 weeks at the lake (just me and the hound for 4 or them), we vegetated hard. Just got out of the garage after installing some more goodies on the Demon. How was your summer. PM me.
 
When I changed my exhaust and put a good 390 on my 170/ it run's much better. hills don't bother it and she likes 65 and 70 mph now :happy10:
Bone stock 170/ 2 to 1 exhaust 2'' to the tail shaft then 2 1/4 with a very quit muffler for some back pressure and run's a 12.07 1/8 mile and my daily driver getting 27 mpg on the hwy, switching to 14'' and removed the 13'' helped I am sure
I know it is no power house but it sure eat's up the first 60' for a granny numbers matching A body, I know this engine will give me many great miles and it will always have one in it, I think 8) :happy10: Just had to share and yes =P~ you can not here it running down the road :happy10: Nice and quite and light.
 
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