23 to 18 spline what it takes and how good i'll be!

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demon1515

demon1515

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yeap, first how much it take to convert from 23 to 18 spline and how good this will be?

and also how strong is the 23 spline unit?
would it be enough for a really hot street 440 that will be seen track with slicks once in a while?

it is a 72 swiger minitubed dana60 and guestimate 550 hp.
 
demon1515 said:
yeap, first how much it take to convert from 23 to 18 spline and how good this will be?

and also how strong is the 23 spline unit?
would it be enough for a really hot street 440 that will be seen track with slicks once in a while?

it is a 72 swiger minitubed dana60 and guestimate 550 hp.
Click to expand...

the 23 from what ive heard will not hold a stock 440 or street hemi with old bias tires! the 18 is the only way to go.

as for how to do it i think all the internals are different but im probably wrong, somebody else will know. hope this helps
 
ha ha ha...... 23 spline is plenty strong enough.

what it takes?
besides the tranny or input shaft, a new 18 spline clutch disk will be needed.
it's a 5 tooth diff...
you'll need to change yer underwear before the 23 spline needs changin.lol
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
ha ha ha...... 23 spline is plenty strong enough.

what it takes?
besides the tranny or input shaft, a new 18 spline clutch disk will be needed.
it's a 5 tooth diff...
you'll need to change yer underwear before the 23 spline needs changin.lol
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even with the slicks??
 
Yeah....

You can break almost, if not, any/everything if it wears out or you try hard enough.

the factory did things as to not have to warranty[if possible] like over engineer to play it safe.

it's his deal, if he wants 18..let'em do the 18.
nothing wrong with insurance if you have the cash...
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
Yeah....

You can break almost, if not, any/everything if it wears out or you try hard enough.

the factory did things as to not have to warranty[if possible] like over engineer to play it safe.

it's his deal, if he wants 18..let'em do the 18.
nothing wrong with insurance if you have the cash...
Click to expand...


Exactly….. My transmission out lasted my 8 3/4 that's why I have a Dana 60.
 
the 23 from what ive heard will not hold a stock 440 or street hemi with old bias tires! the 18 is the only way to go.
Click to expand...


man i don't know where you heard that but everyone i know that has a 23 spline trans beat the everliving crap out of it and non of them have broke yet...
 
Well i have owned before the 18 spline 833 and got no problems at all with it my question comes cuz i didnt know how strong is the 23 spline 833's and as far as i see here it is almost up to par with the 18 spline i think the only diference is the imput shaft size and ratios but thats about it IMO, did someone got more imput? i think i'll be ok with the 23 spline b-body 833 i get, taking in consideration that it is going to be in a lighter car than the B body 383 b engine it came with, i think it should be ok!
 
So the long shaft a-833 shifter can be done i heard that the shifter will come out where the torsion bar brace is or did you make a shifter bracket. I will be using my for drag raceing and want to run a v-gate shifter and if it is set back it might be better to hammer gears while being straped it the seat. have you got some pic of your shifter in the car? I got an iron overdirve unit by mistake and might change out the guts from a b-body unit but it sound like what you did is better i might save myself the trouble
 
Sadlly i didnt get any pictures of my trany setup, all i can tell you i use a E body 18 spline back then and use the back shifter location just like in a E body car i did fabricate the floor hump for the shifter so all was good the shifter rods went over the torsion bar x memeber.
 
demon1515 said:
Sadlly i didnt get any pictures of my trany setup, all i can tell you i use a E body 18 spline back then and use the back shifter location just like in a E body car i did fabricate the floor hump for the shifter so all was good the shifter rods went over the torsion bar x memeber.
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I welded up a plate that was outset just over an inch to clear the tail housing taper. It bolted to the rear mounting pad and extended forward in stock location but with just a lil rearward tilt [I'm tall and have recaro sets]

note...I had to grind away two of the front mounting bosses to clear plate.
 
demon1515 said:
yeap, first how much it take to convert from 23 to 18 spline and how good this will be?

and also how strong is the 23 spline unit?
would it be enough for a really hot street 440 that will be seen track with slicks once in a while?

it is a 72 swiger minitubed dana60 and guestimate 550 hp.
Click to expand...

The 23 spline is a very strong unit, but anything over 500 hp or with slicks and I'd go straight to an 18 spline. Once Mopar Muscle was down the road at the local hotrod shop doing a feature on a Hemi Dart they built. Everyone got into the swing of things, and they pulled out a '71 440 'cuda that had just been restored. They did a burner in the driveway with it, and the 23-spline failed right in front of the Mopar Muscle guys. They twisted the input splines nearly a quarter of the way around the shaft. Fortunately the had a new 23-spline in the 'cuda, and it was back in action before the photo session was done.
23-splines are plenty strong, but you have to be realistic.
 
Outsider said:
The 23 spline is a very strong unit, but anything over 500 hp or with slicks and I'd go straight to an 18 spline. Once Mopar Muscle was down the road at the local hotrod shop doing a feature on a Hemi Dart they built. Everyone got into the swing of things, and they pulled out a '71 440 'cuda that had just been restored. They did a burner in the driveway with it, and the 23-spline failed right in front of the Mopar Muscle guys. They twisted the input splines nearly a quarter of the way around the shaft. Fortunately the had a new 23-spline in the 'cuda, and it was back in action before the photo session was done.
23-splines are plenty strong, but you have to be realistic.
Click to expand...



I might have a explain'ation for some of this. I have built a lot of tranny's for muscle car guy's before I retired my shop for health reasons. Other than M21 M22 Muncies with the bellhousing face machined out of square with the main shaft. 34 to be axact. This happened to 2-833's and 1-T10bent bolt mounting ear.
I found out what happened on the second 833 23spline in a 383 Ply. I rebuilt one for a kid and he broke it doing a burnout like above.
TWICE! I did it for him free an I thought it was something I did. So after the second time I went with him on the test drive. Remember, 383 B body
3.55 gear bias ply tires. I said OK, Do a burn-out. Thank god I noticed he was in 3rd GEAR! He would get all exited and was in 3rd not first. With that tall gear and a swept off rock seal coated street he would of broke a truck tranny. Found out that is what happened to the others.He was always first to mouth off that 833's were junk. Exited and in the wrong gear. That is the only way I have seen a 23spline break in 36yrs that was not wore out, bad bearing, low oil, contaminated oil or out off alighnment. If any bellhouseing retainer hole is out of center .008 you will break tranny's. Not square to the crank or main shaft, you will break tranny's.
Most breakage I have seen was because of miss-alignment. Not, this tranny was weak ect. Someone here said the USA muscle car tranny's were about bomb proof. he was spot on. If you are breaking 23spline 833's on a regular basis, you have something out of alighnment. I have only ran into a very small handfull of guy's that know how to dial indicate in a bellhousing. Yes, you need to do it to stock ones too. More are off than scattershields.
No where in these how tough is this tranny posts is alighment mentioned.
This is why I posted in this old string, because it has some great info and some bad. If everything is set up right I find it hard to swallow that a 23spline will break in under 3500lb car with pump gas and reasonable cubic inches. that being 500. I have also seen guy's run 2.76-3.23 gears and slicks, launch at 5000rpm and blame the tranny!
Thank You guy's for such a great forum with so much great advice.
Take care all,
Rick
 
Unless you have a ten-oh wheelie car, spending money on this swap is simply wasting money. the 23 spline trans are nearly as strong as the 18 spline units, and MUCH easier to find, not to mention cheaper.
 
i have a 66 charger running a strong 440 23 spline trans dana 60 with 5.13s and m and h race masters slicks no problems but got to agree got the money 18 spline is good insurance
 
LOL trust me 23 spline does not hold up to Torque and hp together , heres pics to prove it , this mess happend behind a 528 hemi that dynoed at 696 hp at the wheels with a dana 60 430 gears and Eaton tru trac posi unit , i hit second at 5000 rpm and it detonated complete with with 3 holes in the floor , needless to say it will have a Lakewood bell $ an 18 spline Hemi box when i put it back together .
 

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And this is somehow the fault of the gearbox at nearly 700 hp? In a heavier car, I'm guessing an E body but you didn't say?
 
67Dart273 said:
And this is somehow the fault of the gearbox at nearly 700 hp? In a heavier car, I'm guessing an E body but you didn't say?
Click to expand...

Its a 70 Cuda conv , i weighed it last month at Englishtown dragway and it tipped the scale at 3378 lbs
 
The splines on that broken 23 spline input shaft still look OK, despite the fact that everything else grenaded.... Does the 18 spine unit have a larger diameter input shaft too?
 
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