Torsion bars installed incorrectly?

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GRNHELL

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:withstup:
So I'm a complete noob and I've been slowly working on my first project, a 73 Dart Swinger. Pulled the motor and noticed k-member was blown out where torsion bars plug in. I got a new one from a fellow FABO member, plugged it in, reinstalled new rebuilt 360 and thought everything was good. I finally got my tires and wheels in, lowered the car for the first time since motor was out, and it just kept going... until it bottomed out on the jack. After doing a bit of research on the site, I saw people mentioning jacking up the car and adjusting the torsion bars. After doing so (and what felt like I bottomed out the adjustment bolt), I looked at the control arm and saw this (pictured). Looks like an arm (from the torsion bar?) is way up to where the bolt does seem to seat properly. Is it supposed to be look like that? When reinstalling, I noticed the control arms needed to be in a certain position while plugging in the hex side of the torsion bars and everything looked and went together correctly. But dropping with what seems like ZERO tension/spring rate leads me to believe maybe I'm short one turn/twist of the control arm. If this is the case, is there a way to correct without pulling the motor (again), k-member, etc? Or is it just as simple as replacing/rotating the arms? I can get more pics if needed. Thanks in advance for the help!!


photo3.jpg
 
Back the adjustment bolts back out. Pop the torsion bars back out, and make sure the "finger" on the torsion adjuster is almost down on the adjustment bolt and then put the torsion bars back in.
When you are putting them back in, if the hexes do not line up, always pull that finger toward the adjustment bolt. Put the retainers back in the back of the torsion bar mounts.
Once that is done, run the adjustment bolts about 3 or 4 full turns. Set the car back on the ground and then bounce up and down on the bumper. This should settle the bars back in. The adjustment of the torsion bar is pretty time consuming, so be patient, adjust the bolts a little at a time. On mine, it seems that for every full inch I adjusted the ride height upwards, it would settle 1/2 inch. Just keep that in mind that it will settle until the torsion bars are all back under tension.
Once that is all done, be sure to put the pivot pin nuts back to torque, while the car is on the ground, after the torsion bars are adjusted correctly.
 
So is it possible to back out the torsion bars from the back? When I took out the k-member, I left the arms and hex socket in place and slid them off. So that's really the only way I know of spinning that socket so that the finger is back in the correct place.
 
remove snap ring from the back and slide them out the back
 
Not to hijack the thread....I have a set of 892 and 893....so the even number 892 goes on the right side???? and the 893 goes on the left....?That's the right side as you are sitting in the drivers seat??
 
Not to hijack the thread....I have a set of 892 and 893....so the even number 892 goes on the right side???? and the 893 goes on the left....?That's the right side as you are sitting in the drivers seat??

Odd numbers on the left (drivers) evens on the right (pass)
 
Good luck bro! The retaining rings come right out with a pair of pliers. Spray it down with PB Blaster and run a little brush around the inside lip of the mount. Just to be sure the clip goes right back in once you get them pushed back in. I had to get mine fully seated with a shortened wooden broom handle and a soft blow hammer. The torsion bar should go in about a half inch or so, and then the snap ring pops right back in.

You may want to pick up some lower bump stops for those control arms....
 
BlackBrick has it pretty well. I recommend that you remove the bump stop for the upper control arm before you re-install the T-bars. The wheel will sit lower when the stop is removed. In turn, this will let the T-bar take up tension sooner leaving you more range of adjustment on the LCA bolts. Remember to re-install the UCA bump stops before you go driving off.
 
Also remove the bump stop that is on the frame. This will allow the control arms to droop further and will help in getting the hex on the bar lined up with hex socket on the lower control arm.
 
Anyone have a removal tool for sale? I got the drivers side out no problem with vice grips and a hammer, but can't seem to get a good grip on the pass side one.
 
Anyone have a removal tool for sale? I got the drivers side out no problem with vice grips and a hammer, but can't seem to get a good grip on the pass side one.

Oh ouch. :sad1: Vise grips?

Hopefully you didn't gouge up the torsion bar. Torsion bars are just giant springs, and if they're gouged up they can fail when under load. While I haven't seen it myself, I have heard stories of torsion bars exploding due to external damage to the bar.

The best way to remove the torsion bars is to drop the LCA. Once you've lowered it off the spindle and removed the pivot nut you can hit the LCA with a dead-blow mallet to drive the torsion bar out the back. Removal tools are basically just big clamps, and even they sometimes slide and damage the torsion bars.
 
Vise Grips and a rag. I have done it that way. Sucks but it works.

I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm saying its a REALLY bad idea.

Think about it this way. The shafts of the torsion bars carry the entire load of the front end of your car. Plus any shock/dynamic loads from the road. And, because of the design of the torsion bar system, its a 1:1 relationship. Which means even at a stand still each torsion bar probably carries around 1,000 lbs of load on most A-body's.

Now, if you figure most torsion bars are less than an inch in diameter, that 1/16" deep gouge you just put in the bar with the vise grips becomes significant. No, not every little mark can or will cause a failure, but even small gouges and dings in the main shaft of a torsion bar can be significant and lead to failures down the road. And because of the nature of spring loads, it can be a catastrophic failure.

So, sure, you may be able to remove your torsion bars this way without damaging them. But if you do damage the bars doing it, they're junk at best, and quite literally a time bomb at worst.
 
I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm saying its a REALLY bad idea.

Think about it this way. The shafts of the torsion bars carry the entire load of the front end of your car. Plus any shock/dynamic loads from the road. And, because of the design of the torsion bar system, its a 1:1 relationship. Which means even at a stand still each torsion bar probably carries around 1,000 lbs of load on most A-body's.

Now, if you figure most torsion bars are less than an inch in diameter, that 1/16" deep gouge you just put in the bar with the vise grips becomes significant. No, not every little mark can or will cause a failure, but even small gouges and dings in the main shaft of a torsion bar can be significant and lead to failures down the road. And because of the nature of spring loads, it can be a catastrophic failure.

So, sure, you may be able to remove your torsion bars this way without damaging them. But if you do damage the bars doing it, they're junk at best, and quite literally a time bomb at worst.
Not to argure or start a fight But that seems a little far fetched I can see the possibility of the gouges causing fatigue to the bars BUT the difference of how many people have had that happen to the people who havent is pretty big I would also say the majority of the back yard guys and gals that are workin on these old mopars have used vicegrips more than the correct tool Heck I think theres people out there that dont even know there is a correct tool
 
Not to argure or start a fight But that seems a little far fetched I can see the possibility of the gouges causing fatigue to the bars BUT the difference of how many people have had that happen to the people who havent is pretty big I would also say the majority of the back yard guys and gals that are workin on these old mopars have used vicegrips more than the correct tool Heck I think theres people out there that dont even know there is a correct tool

I refuse to read this sentence. Punctuation is my friend. :thumleft:
 
Yes, their is a special tool. I think US tool makes,but I've been using vise grips for years, never had a problem. I usually double them up in case one slides it catches the other.
 
I refuse to read this sentence. Punctuation is my friend. :thumleft:
Not to argure or start a fight, but that seems a little far fetched. I can see the possibility of the gouges causing fatigue to the bars, BUT the difference of how many people have had that happen to the people who havent is pretty big. I would also say the majority of the back yard guys and gals that are workin on these old mopars have used vicegrips more than the correct tool. Heck I think theres people out there that dont even know there is a correct tool. Better?
 
Not to argure or start a fight, but that seems a little far fetched. I can see the possibility of the gouges causing fatigue to the bars, BUT the difference of how many people have had that happen to the people who havent is pretty big. I would also say the majority of the back yard guys and gals that are workin on these old mopars have used vicegrips more than the correct tool. Heck I think theres people out there that dont even know there is a correct tool. Better?

Thank you! :thumleft:

Sorry. It's just one of my pet peeves. My kids are in high school and I see so much of this stuff on line & everywhere else it seems. Even some of the teachers can't write, punctuate or spell. They bring home school announcements with terrible grammatical & punctuation errors. Now the schools are even teaching the kids to only leave a single space at the end of a sentence. I cringe every time I go onto a forum. About once every year or so I can't hold back.
 
Thank you! :thumleft:

Sorry. It's just one of my pet peeves. My kids are in high school and I see so much of this stuff on line & everywhere else it seems. Even some of the teachers can't write, punctuate or spell. They bring home school announcements with terrible grammatical & punctuation errors. Now the schools are even teaching the kids to only leave a single space at the end of a sentence. I cringe every time I go onto a forum. About once every year or so I can't hold back.
I hear ya man!!! Everyone says I write like a *****! When i was in catholic school we had penminship(spelling?) classes and the nuns would smack your fingers for holding the pencil wrong. If you were left handed, you had to learn to write with your right hand. But i'm glad I was taught that way back then. Everything has changed so much with the schools.
 
I'm not saying that it hasn't been done a million times, or you can't remove torsion bars with vice-grips without damaging them. All I'm saying is that it's a bad habit to get into. It's not the right way to do it, and it can have consequences.

Not every tiny little nick is a problem. But here's the thing, do YOU know which nick or gouge will propagate into a fracture? Unless you do a stress strain analysis on your torsion bar, you won't know. And once the damage reaches a certain size, it can propagate.

As far as torsion bar failure, see this thread. Maybe the percentage is small, but it does happen. And if you're constantly using vice grips or other methods to remove 40 year old torsion bars, you're definitely improving your chances of a failure.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=40665
 
A u-bolt and piece of angle iron might do the trick too.

The torsion bars seem to have some residual load on them even when the tension bolt is backed out.

I like the way 70 Crate Duster did it. That's an effective method, too.
 
Take the upper rebound stops off, have someone stand on the lca. Put pieces of alum strap in the jaws of a pipe wrench, put that on bar. Then smack the pipe wrench with a 2 lb maul. Out. No damage.
 
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