Is it smart???

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Bill Dedman

bill dedman
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The time-honored tradition of yanking that /6 out and replacing it with a V8 may be on its way out.

There are some slant six cars with turbos on them that give serious rise to the idea that a turbo'd /6 might be a better and/or cheaper way to achieve lower e.t's than is possible with a V8, for the same money.

Tom Wolfe had stock /6 1970 Dart Swinger (3,300-pounds), and all he did was to install a junkyard turbo off a Buick V6 and his car ran a 12.95, with no changes to the engine other than a 2bbl intake and a blow-thru modified 2bbl carb.

If he'd swapped in a V8, and it had enough beans to run that quick, he'd probably have spent more money... it's not that easy to put a small block, 3,300 pound car into the 12's without some aftermarket parts.

The people who swap a V8 into grandma's a-body when they inherit it, usually spend money on a rear end, to replace the fragile 7.25" unit that comes in /6 cars, and because they like the convenience of a drop out 3rd member for occasions when they may need ratio flexibility (hiway gears vs. drag strip gears,) they usually opt for the more expensive 8.75" unit. The turbocharged '6 can get by nicely with a 2.93:1 for all use because the turbo/6 works well with low numerical ratios on the drag strip.

Because of that, and that they won't be changing ratios, the cheaper alternative (8.25") is attractive to the /6 crowd.

The stock cam also works well in a turbocharged /6, wherein virtually any V8 you drop in, will need a new (more radical) cam, unless you are installing an already "hot" cammed engine, like a 340.

More money saved with the six.

The performance of these inline engines can be enhanced, just like a V8 car can, with big valves, a ported head, and improved fuel delivery, but now you're talking money, and that is not the gist of this topic.

High 10s in a
n A body turbo /6 car are a reality.


I just am contending that if you come into a /6-powered A-body, you should examine the alternatives thoroughly before you ditch the /6; a turbocharged version of it may be a better choice than a V8.

Just sayin'....
 
Bottom line, there are a thousand ways to skin a cat.
It is your car,so do what makes you happy.
 
anyone messes up this thread will get a vacation,this is bill's third attempt...either add to it constructively or enjoy cyberspace for at least a week.....disgust
 
i believe a turbo on my slant would make me happy! i miss my v8s ,but for me its time for something different and mainly economical.i was wondering about a 7.25 rear holding up though. i dont have much money for my car anymore, so this makes sense to me.i have also read about making a buick 3.8 fuel injection system work on a slant which also peaks my interest.
 
Turbo,s are the thing of the future.I work at the Ford plant in Oakville Ontario,Canada and we make Ford Edge,Flex and Lincoln MKX,MKT.We,ve been putting the new Eco-boost 3.5 twinturbo V6 engines in the Flex and MKT,s for over a year now.These twinturbo V6,s put out a whopping 375HP,not bad for a 7 passenger vehicle.=D>If you search You-Tube for Flex vs Corvette,you,ll see the Ford Flex run a 14 sec 1/4 mile.To me a 4000lb,7 passenger vehicle running 14,s is pretty cool and good on gas to boot.Right now there in the works of adding a 4 cyl with turbo for the Edge and MKX,s.Adding the turbos is an excellent way to get better fuel economy.Soon most vehicles will have turbo,s.Look at the new F-150 trucks,they have the new V6 twinturbo,s also and can haul a car trailer with car inside no problems.Just food for thought,Sorry for long winded story.:yawinkle:
 
When I pulled the blown up 225 out of my dart it surprised me how big it was. If I ever get this one done, the trubo /6 sounds like a cool next project.
 
It all depends on the situation. My 225 in the Dart was smoking as the rings where going out and it really needed a complete rebuild. I ended up getting a complete V8 and trans. from a friend for free so I went that route instead. Either engine at the power level I wanted would have put too much stress on the stock 7-1/4 for me to trust it so out it came.

Now if I had an already solid running /6 then I probably would have kept it and put a turbo on it... who knows. I (as far as this car goes) am not really into mpg. so that wasn't an issue. I wanted from the begining a car that had decent power and good daily driver road manners. That meant to me around 300 hp and a docile idle. I also like it to be as simple as possible for any future repairs go. Good parts availability and fewer external components for something to go wrong. Thats why I did my swap. So again if someone already has a good running /6 or mpg is a concern I would keep the 6 any day. I also really liked my old trusty slant while it was in the car. Even smoking like a pig it always ran and was so easy to work on. A big plus for me since I like to tinker on all my vehicles.
 
You all know my car has a big block 383 (with a 4 spd). It is a bracket racer only. So it has to be consistent to go rounds. Before you point out the obvious, (you need an automatic to be consistent in a bracket car) I do pretty well with a 4 speed. My car is very consistent it is just the driver who needs more practice.

That being said, I had thought about doing a /6 blower deal for my car but I know it would be expensive to do because of it would be a one off.
The idea of a turbo looks to be the way to go if you want to go fast especially on a budget and still retain street-ability.

My only concern, and this may be unfounded please prove me wrong if so, is every turbo car I see bracket racing is not very consistent due to spool up and trying to launch at the same rpm every time.
Is there a way to have your cake and eat it too? Can you run a turbo /6 and successively bracket race it round after round?
 
A turbo /6 is indeed a good idea. Like previously mentioned, more than one way to skin a cat. Only issue for me will be it is going to reach it's limits before a v-8......but there is nothing wrong with being different........
 
......Add som giggle gaz off the line.................kim.........

Oh yes,very good idea.This helps eliminate turbo lag or "spooling",both of whci are associated with running large turbo"s.

Im glad chrysler was so crazy overengineered in it's day!! Now we can use that to great effect with turbo's. The slant is a natural candidate for a turbo,being so strong.
 
The original question here was "Is it smart?" as in smart to yank out a V8. My answer is whatever the owner decides to do is smart....for them. Turbocharging is nothing new. There have been both supercharged as well as turbocharged cars and trucks as far back as the 1920s. After all, turbocharging IS a form of supercharging. There are turbos on the market now that completely eliminate turbo lag.....that is, IF you make the right choice. There are many different size and type turbos. Some larger than others. The impeller weight as well as type of impeller shaft support directly effects how a given turbo will spool up. Choosing a small, light turbo with ball bearings for impeller shaft support, instead of bronze sintered bushings will result in unparalled turbo performance. The spool up on a properly chosen turbo is instantaneous, instead of having to "wait" for exhaust pressure to get the impeller spinning. I have a friend who has a 7.3 Power Stroke in an F350 who lives in Macon. That truck is in no way shape form or fashion stock anymore. Soon as he hits the starter, you can hear the turbo spinning at idle. Idling through the grocery store parking lot, his truck sounds like a jet airplane idling on a runway. Because the turbo is already spinning, it's ready johnny on the spot to create boost. Yes, buying a specific turbo to match a specific application will be more expensive, but in the end the result will be instant tire shredding torque. Turbocharging is just like anything else in hot rodding. A moderately sized unit will work much better than going all out with a jumbo sized gorilla turbo. In fact, the turbo on my buddy's Power Stroke makes the stock Garrett we removed look huge. Bigger is not always better. With a turbo, it all depends on vane size, shape and pitch, as well as overall impeller and shaft weight and support. And believe me, lighter is better. I would probably turbocharge my slant, however, I have already purchased pistons for a naturally aspirated build that will result in a compression ratio far too great at 9.6:1 for turbocharging and running on pump fuel. But for a low static compression ratio slant, I think it's a great idea.
 
Thanks to Waggin' for keeping the peace; there are some really GREAT posts in this thread this time! This kind of response is what I had hoped for before, but I guess the third time, really IS the "charm." LOL!

I was in the hospital with some diabetes-related issues (I'm OK now) from last Monday morning 'til Thursday aftrnoon, late, so I don't have a clue as to what went on to create so much chaos that it ended up getting the thread deleted, but this time is just GREAT!!!

Thanks to everyone who's posted! I appreciate it. :)
 
Glad you're doin better, Bill. Don't keep us in the dark if there's a next time. We got a good prayer group here.
 
You all know my car has a big block 383 (with a 4 spd). It is a bracket racer only. So it has to be consistent to go rounds. Before you point out the obvious, (you need an automatic to be consistent in a bracket car) I do pretty well with a 4 speed. My car is very consistent it is just the driver who needs more practice.

That being said, I had thought about doing a /6 blower deal for my car but I know it would be expensive to do because of it would be a one off.
The idea of a turbo looks to be the way to go if you want to go fast especially on a budget and still retain street-ability.

My only concern, and this may be unfounded please prove me wrong if so, is every turbo car I see bracket racing is not very consistent due to spool up and trying to launch at the same rpm every time.
Is there a way to have your cake and eat it too? Can you run a turbo /6 and successively bracket race it round after round?
Rev limiter, kick it up to 3000 rpm, then release the button.
 
Hey Rob Im guessing when you are talking about new turbo's you would mean the VNT. Vairable nozzle turbo.No lag and huge power. Yes they cost lots of $$ but would be the best all round style turbo in any given situation. There is also the option of a big and little turbo combo,where the effective boost rpm ranges cross over. Results in big torque all throught the range but Im not tecnical enough on that to tell you which two turbo's would be the most effective in any given engine. Im sure it would depend on a lot of things.

Which leads to a question I have,how to pick the right size turbo for your application?
 
Not necessarily the VNT, no. You don't have to have that fancy a turbo to get rid of lag...and I mean completely rid of lag. It simply takes lots of research and buying smart. In fact, I don't like the variable turbos. That's what my 6.0L Power Stroke had on it from the factory. They had more trouble with the 6.0 than any other diesel they ever made. Mine SUCKED. That's why I got rid of it. Had I only bought an early 03 and not an 04 I would have gotten the last of the 7.3s and gotten a good one and still be in it now. No, I think Ford learned the hard way. Trying to vary the pitch on turbo vanes spinning at 40K plus RPM ain't too good an idea. lol The key is buy a ball bearing turbo, DON'T buy too big and buy LIGHT.
 
Not necessarily the VNT, no.You don't have to have that fancy a trubo to get rid of lag...and I mean completely rid of lag. It simply takes lots of research and buying smart. In fact, I don't like the variable turbos. That's what my 6.0L Power Stroke had on it from the factory. They had more trouble with the 6.0 than any other diesel they ever made. Mine SUCKED. That's why I got rid of it. Had I only bought an early 03 and not an 04 I would have gotten the last of the 7.3s and gotten a good one and still be in it now. No, I think Ford learned the hard way. Trying to vary the pitch on turbo vanes spinning at 40K plus RPM ain't too good an idea. lol The key is buy a ball bearing turbo, DON'T buy too big and buy LIGHT.

And I thought it was just the 6.0 that was crap! Lol knew all about those ones,they have a very bad rep around town as lots of guys at work bought them and all the same problems.


Maybe your right about the VNT. Havent heard a whole lot about them as of late.
 
Which leads to a question I have,how to pick the right size turbo for your application?

You can come pretty close yourself if you have some basic knowledge of turbos. I consider what I know not even to fill the head of a pin. I would consult a big turbo outfit, tell them what I have, what I want and go from there.
 
Well...I agree to a point that a /6 with a turbo is a good idea. This comes from a guy who has won quite a bit of $$ racing the /6.

The reality is this though..it is not as simple as bolting on the turbo and going fast with it. It takes lots of tuning and patience to acheive what you want. That goes for quite a few things anyways.

If you have the patience to do it and the $$$, I say go for it. I don't believe it it is as easy or cheap as people say it is. If that were the case, more people would do it.

Oh yeah..the 7.25 rear holding up behind a turbo /6? Not for long. A 7.25 will hold up to it for a while if it is a Sure Grip because that is what my old slant bracket car had in it. My 7.25 Sure Grip even with slicks was pretty stout. An 8.25 or 8.75 is $$$ better spent in the long run. A 7.25 peg leg is running off of borrowed time.
 
Well...I agree to a point that a /6 with a turbo is a good idea. This comes from a guy who has won quite a bit of $$ racing the /6.

The reality is this though..it is not as simple as bolting on the turbo and going fast with it. It takes lots of tuning and patience to acheive what you want. That goes for quite a few things anyways.

If you have the patience to do it and the $$$, I say go for it. I don't believe it it is as easy or cheap as people say it is. If that were the case, more people would do it.

Oh yeah..the 7.25 rear holding up behind a turbo /6? Not for long. A 7.25 will hold up to it for a while if it is a Sure Grip because that is what my old slant bracket car had in it. My 7.25 Sure Grip even with slicks was pretty stout. An 8.25 or 8.75 is $$$ better spent in the long run. A 7.25 peg leg is running off of borrowed time.

Good points, all. I didn't mean to make it sound easy, but we have two guys on here who are both making a litte over 500 flywheel HP, with more to come, and they are both cost-conscious racers. Maybe they're just both really smart, but from what I have read of their projects, they go really fast in spite of buying "frugal" in a lot of areas. As they acquire the means to get more sophisticated parts (for example, neither of them even has a ball-bearing turbo,) I think you're going to see them both pick up a bunch of power.

Maybe Ryan or Tom could post on here, some ways their cars, although being lightning-fast, have been budget projects so far.

I'll be very interested!:yawinkle:
 
Oh yes,very good idea.This helps eliminate turbo lag or "spooling",both of whci are associated with running large turbo"s.

Im glad chrysler was so crazy overengineered in it's day!! Now we can use that to great effect with turbo's. The slant is a natural candidate for a turbo,being so strong.
A slant six is THE natural candidate for a turbo!
It's an accident that it is so over-built, and harkens back to the fact that as an aluminum engine, Chrysler HAD to make it strong because aluminum ISN'T (compared to cast iron,)

When their grandiose plans for making it out of aluminum fell through, the CHEAPEST thing was to simply cast what they could, of the original aluminum design, out of iron... so, that's what they did.

Can you say, "RIGID"????

Now, 50 years later, with cheap turbos and reasonably-priced forged pistons and rods available from several vendors, WE are the beneficiaries of Ma Mopar's bad luck with aluminum castings, back then.

Oh well.... I can dig it!!!! :)

This would seem to be the payoff for having to put up with that 170 cylinder head (they're all the same) on our normally-aspirated 225's, for all those years!!! LOTS of boost will overcome some pretty bad breathing problems, and these /6 babies would seem to be second only to a Diesel, when it comes to be having been "Made for a turbo!!!"

I'm lovin' it....:thumbup:
 
because aluminum ISN'T (compared to cast iron,)

As a former certified welder, I got some disagreement here. Aluminum, unlike cast iron, is forgiving. It will stretch and return, whereas cast iron will crack or break. It is my belief that when cast iron was invented, it was heralded as an "end all be all" substance to make things out of.....however, if those that had invented it had only known its quirks ahead of time, I think they would have scrapped cast iron in the scrap pile......where it rightfully belongs. I can think of no other metal as unstable. You can season a block for years out in the weather, press it into service and it last for years. Take it back out, set it on the work bench and it crack the next day. In my mind's eye, aluminum is stronger than cast iron in certain ways. Certainly not sheer tensil strength, but by its forgiveness alone, I think aluminum is a far greater substance.....and that's not even getting into it's repairability VS cast iron. Sorry to get off on that tangent, but I thought it was worth discussion.
 
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