Improved Handling

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CUDA69

CUDA69

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I installed a pair of Firm Feel upper control arms and a PS box with their Stage III upgrade. The control arms got me to 2 degrees positive caster. Now the car gives good feed back. Exiting turns the wheel straightens out on it's own. Even with reduced pump pressure (Ehrinburg trick) I can turn the wheel with one hand. This turned out to be a good up grade.
 
These?http://www.firmfeel.com/tubuca_a.htm

Good to know that the parts live up to thier claims. I plan on reinforcing my lower control arms with thier plates but am reinforcing the uppers as well with some home made pieces and moog offset camber bushings.I'll be going with manual steering due to a big block swap.

That pump trick is very cool and if mopar had known back in the day they probably would have done it themselves! Not many upgrades to our cars are free,but this one is and every mopar guy should do this! Well worth it.
 
You can also get 3-4 deg postive caster with offset upper control arm bushing in your stock A-arms. You should have been able to get 3-4 deg positive caster with those FF A-arms if you wanted.
 
autoxcuda said:
You can also get 3-4 deg postive caster with offset upper control arm bushing in your stock A-arms. You should have been able to get 3-4 deg positive caster with those FF A-arms if you wanted.
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Really? Because the offset camber bolts from Moog only offer about 1 to 1.5 degrees of offset. My search at rock auto turned up an ac delco part # for an offset camber bolt that offers a bit more,maybe 2.5?.

How is the 3-4 degree's achieved?

Here are the part #'s I came up with at rock auto;

K7036 the moog cam and bushing kit or K8243A if you want just the bolts

K408 is the bushings

45K18013 is the AC Delco # for the cam bolt.
 
i dont think u install the moog offset bushings like they say to in their provided instructions...i think theres another set of instructions floating around on how to install them...i could be wrong though.,..
 
Positive two degrees seems great on the street. Is four degrees better? I measured it with the Eastwood tool that mounts onto the wheel, in my garage so it might not be the most accurate numbers.
 
needsaresto said:
Really? Because the offset camber bolts from Moog only offer about 1 to 1.5 degrees of offset. My search at rock auto turned up an ac delco part # for an offset camber bolt that offers a bit more,maybe 2.5?.

How is the 3-4 degree's achieved?

Here are the part #'s I came up with at rock auto;

K7036 the moog cam and bushing kit or K8243A if you want just the bolts

K408 is the bushings

45K18013 is the AC Delco # for the cam bolt.
Click to expand...

You don't install them per the instuctions. And many car can get 1 deg positive and more just stock. Depends on the car and the skill and effort of the alignment tech.
 

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CUDA69 said:
Positive two degrees seems great on the street. Is four degrees better? I measured it with the Eastwood tool that mounts onto the wheel, in my garage so it might not be the most accurate numbers.
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Yes, 3-4 better. More stable and high speeds. A little camber gain in corners too. Drag guys IIRC, even run more.
 
Sorry to jump on your thread in this way! I do have a question regarding the AC delco # I gave above.

Anyone using the delco bolt or a brand other than Moog? Just curious on feedback before I leap and go buy something. I did buy a set of the Moogs a loooong time ago and they were fine then,but everything is made offshore these days.
 
i just bought new eccentric bolts, offset upper and std lower bushings, new upper and lower ball joints. all moog from rock auto. everything was made in the usa except the lower control arm buchings, which were made in mexico. i kept hearing how all the moog stuff was made overseas, i figured if any of it was, i would definitely get the import stuff from rock auto since the prices were so much lower. i was surprised.
needsaresto, you dont gain anything from any different bolts, there is only so much slot built into the car. you gain fro mthe offset bushings.
 
autoxcuda said:
Yes, 3-4 better. More stable and high speeds. A little camber gain in corners too. Drag guys IIRC, even run more.
Click to expand...

You seem to be the guy that would know. I plan to use the offset bushings. If I can get that much, can I get away with 3-4 degrees on the street, or should I maybe use a bit less? I've got an original 16:1 manual box I plan to put on my car, and plan to run about a 215 to 225/60 15 radial front tire. The car has a small block.
 
jamesdart said:
i just bought new eccentric bolts, offset upper and std lower bushings, new upper and lower ball joints. all moog from rock auto. everything was made in the usa except the lower control arm buchings, which were made in mexico. i kept hearing how all the moog stuff was made overseas, i figured if any of it was, i would definitely get the import stuff from rock auto since the prices were so much lower. i was surprised.
needsaresto, you dont gain anything from any different bolts, there is only so much slot built into the car. you gain fro mthe offset bushings.
Click to expand...

And all this time I thought it was the cam on the bolt that provided the offset! I dont recall the bushing being offset,but it is better than 20 yr's for my last install.

I agree the Moog is more expensive,but at least you are supporting jobs and folks right here,not some bastard fat cat in china.
 
needsaresto said:
And all this time I thought it was the cam on the bolt that provided the offset! I dont recall the bushing being offset,but it is better than 20 yr's for my last install.

I agree the Moog is more expensive,but at least you are supporting jobs and folks right here,not some bastard fat cat in china.
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The cam bolt does supply the offset in the factory design. The Moog offset upper control arm bushings just allow you to get more offset than the factory design can provide.
 
'64 Cuda said:
You seem to be the guy that would know. I plan to use the offset bushings. If I can get that much, can I get away with 3-4 degrees on the street, or should I maybe use a bit less? I've got an original 16:1 manual box I plan to put on my car, and plan to run about a 215 to 225/60 15 radial front tire. The car has a small block.
Click to expand...

With manual 16:1 steering it will be harder to turn at low speeds 5mph to 20mph with the more caster you run. Maybe start out with 1-2 degrees postive caster then see if how hard it is to turn. If fine try 3-4.

It's total personal perference. It's hard to say what YOU think to too hard of steering at low speeds. BTW if you run an aftermarket small diameter steering wheel that will make it harder steering too.
 
the bolt does provide the adjustment, but there isnt a bolt that will provide more adjustment than any other bolt. maybe on other cars that will work, im not sure. the standard bushings are not offset only the moog offset bushings. i even went with new bolts for the duster, one had a bad washer when i puleld it apart they are cheap enough while its apart already. when i had my dart aligned one of the washers stripped out and they never even told me, just told me they couldnt get the one side within spec, something was wrong. moog claims to have some new rubber that provides the benefits of poly but no squeek. im not sur ehow long they have been using it but it did seem pretty hard.
 
Street car with manual steering, I would hold the caster line at 3 degrees and no more.

Cuda69 Alignments are a tuning tool. You have good steering return, if the car doesn't pull and you are happy with the straight line driving at speed, I would say your caster is good. If you are getting a little wander at higher speeds, then maybe add a little more caster. At this point it's all about getting the car to drive the way you want.
 
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