vortech on an 69 a-body with 360 magnum

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A68DART360

A68DART360

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hello all. Has anybody put a vortech supercharger on a magnum motor in an a-body and have any pictures. My friend has one that I am putting on my car and I want to see how and what side of the engine they are putting it on. Also what all has to be done to put it on the car.
 
A68DART360 said:
hello all. Has anybody put a vortech supercharger on a magnum motor in an a-body and have any pictures. My friend has one that I am putting on my car and I want to see how and what side of the engine they are putting it on. Also what all has to be done to put it on the car.
Click to expand...

How's this?

'72 Valiant; 360 Magnum, stock except for minimal bowl porting. TTI "step"-headers, 9:1 (stock) compression, Hughesperformance roller lifter (stock lifters) cam; .525"-gross lift; 214/218-degrees duration @ .050"-lift, Chinese Air Gap-type manifold, stock electronic distributor, 750 Double pumper carb from The Carb Shop in Ontario, CA (900.00 !!!), 904 T-Flite with hi-stall (factory nomenclature) converter (2,500 rpm, unblown), 8.75" 4.10:1, limited slip rear end, MSD Boostmaster ignition retard, (dash mounted control), Snowperformance water/meth injection (starts at 3 psi., owner-adjusted).

Homemade installation "kit" with battery moved to the trunk, and Viper Vortech supercharger pulley, homemade static idler, 2.5" TTI tailpipe system.
Oh, and you'll nrrd s complete 3/8" or 1/2" fuel system and regulator.

Ran 10 pounds of boost to make 445 rear wheel HP at 5,200 rpm on a chassis dyno; see pic... At the local 1,000-foot strip, it ran 105 mph, at 9.74-sec on a very slick track (poor, 1.81 60-foot times, spinning all the way to 2nd gear. It will probably run .3 quicker now, with a 4.10 gear replacing the old 3:55 and 9" slicks replacing the 8" drag radials.

New times would likely be 11.45 @ 117 in the quarter-mile.

Street driven... 3,600 pounds with my considerable posterior in the driver's seat.

I would recommend that you sell the Vortech and turbocharge that car; it will go faster, cheaper. Wish I'd done that...

Good luck....:profilel:

Bill
 

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What do you figure you have in the the charger and all hardware to make it work.?? Not trying to get in your business, I'm interested in a comparison between a turbo and a blower.
900 bucks for the carb, I'm guessing it's a blow through.....
 
Holy mudder of George Bush Bill, looks like a spaghetti factory blew up in your car ;-)
How do you get the car to throw more fuel when the boost comes on?
You need to post a video of the beast in action.
 
Do you have any of the instruction sheets. How did you do the oil supply line. I decided to go supercharger because my friend has one sitting around and I said lets put it on my car. He said okay. So it is not costing me anything for it, I just have to change other things like my fuel system. I have 3/8 now plus I will have to change my float bowls on my carb plus a lot more little things. Thanks for the pics if anybody else has info feel free to add.
 
what did you do for pulleys. where did you get them and how much. what are they running off of. Is it just a crank pulley.
 
dustoff440 said:
What do you figure you have in the the charger and all hardware to make it work.?? Not trying to get in your business, I'm interested in a comparison between a turbo and a blower.
900 bucks for the carb, I'm guessing it's a blow through.....
Click to expand...


Rough estimate:

New blower off ebay: $1,000.00
Product Engineering fuel regulator: $ 250.00 (estimate)
Carb (blow thru modified) CARB shop $900.00
Fuel system (2 pumps, filters, 1/2" push-on lines, A-N fittings, $800.00
MSD components (Boostmaster. coil) $400.00
Spark Plug wires $80.00
8.75" rear with Moser axles and new 4.10 limited slip $1100.00
904 with hi-stall converter $750.00
Dist. $100.00
New driveshaft with (larger) 7290 u-joints $375.00
New radiator; 3 row $290
Vacuuim reservoir for pwr brakes $100.00?
Turbo action shifter $300,00
Cam (Hughes) $400,00 with springs
Roller rockers $300.00 Crane???
Bottom pulley donated
Serpentine blower-belt Hell. I don't remember... sorry
Mounting plate (my design/friend fabbed it $150.00
TTI Headers $585.00 coated
Rest of TTI exhaust system around $450.00 estimate
Boost gauge $25.00
Supercharger lube oil, oil filter $60.00???
Snowperformance Boost Cooler meth injector $200.00 (they've gone up to $300.00, now...
Stock 360 Magnum out of a Durango (lo-miles) $1100.00
B & M flex plate $95.00
Rust-free '72 Valiant 4-door $100.00 ( No typo)
Wheels $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Believe me when I say, a turbo can be built sheaper and more powerful.
 
A68DART360 said:
what did you do for pulleys. where did you get them and how much. what are they running off of. Is it just a crank pulley.
Click to expand...

It's a donated pulley (aluminum billet, cnc) from the guy who sold me the blower on ebay.

It's one he had left over from some twin Vortech kits he made for Vipers.

The original (two) V-belt pulleys are nested inside; same bolt pattern and same depth.

I lucked out...

He suggested my going to a junkyard and taking the entire accessory drive system off a '90s Dakota and using 1 belt for everything. He know what he was talking about...

I'd think that would be an easier way to go about it.

I fabbed an idler pulley,,, easy.8)
 
A68DART360 said:
Do you have any of the instruction sheets. How did you do the oil supply line. I decided to go supercharger because my friend has one sitting around and I said lets put it on my car. He said okay. So it is not costing me anything for it, I just have to change other things like my fuel system. I have 3/8 now plus I will have to change my float bowls on my carb plus a lot more little things. Thanks for the pics if anybody else has info feel free to add.
Click to expand...

Just unscrew the oil pressure gauge fitting by the distributor, and substitute a "T" fitting for it. Then screw the oil pressure gauge or light, fitting into one leg of the T and the oil line to the blower into the other leg of the T. Run a quarter-inch line to the blower, and fashion a drain into the pan.

I didn't have any instruction sheets except for things you'll get that will COME with instructions,

I put a filter on mine, but that's probably not necessary.
 
kustom2k1 said:
Holy mudder of George Bush Bill, looks like a spaghetti factory blew up in your car ;-)
How do you get the car to throw more fuel when the boost comes on?
You need to post a video of the beast in action.
Click to expand...

"Holy mudder of George Bush?"
No, that's "Holy murder of Bin Laden." (something that Bush couldn't get done.)

RE: " looks like a spaghetti factory blew up in your car ."
No one has been electrocuted, yet...:cheers:
Probably just a matter of time...

The carburetor is a Carb Shop item that utilizes God Knows What technogy they employ to accomplish that (enrichening under increased boost.) For $900.00, it ought to do SOMETHING!!!

I have an MSD BoostMaster ignition control that retards the spark as boost increases through a boost-referenced line from the carb hat. A dash-mounted knob enables the driver to select the amount of retard, either 1, 2, or 3 degrees of retard for each pound of boost, up to a maximum of 15-degrees (crankshaft.)

That, along with the Snowperformance BoostCooler methanol spray, I have managed to stave off detonation, running off what they call. 100-low-lead AV gas so far....:profilel:

Pray for me!!!

Hope this helps...
 
Bill, takes a ton of work to get a car like that together and make it run that good. Much kudos!!
 
kustom2k1 said:
Bill, takes a ton of work to get a car like that together and make it run that good. Much kudos!!
Click to expand...

I took me from the time I was 69 'til I was 72...
I think it was easier when I was somewhat younger...

THIS one seems harder...



current project:
 

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I was actually looking at your avatar pic just a few minutes ago thanks for the photo! That's a thing of beauty, and those 6 bangers make some wonderful music at full tilt!
Whats the time frame on completion, keeping busy keeps you young ;-)
 
kustom2k1 said:
I was actually looking at your avatar pic just a few minutes ago thanks for the photo! That's a thing of beauty, and those 6 bangers make some wonderful music at full tilt!
Whats the time frame on completion, keeping busy keeps you young ;-)
Click to expand...

Thanks much for the kind words!!!

Well, we hope to have this thing running and on the strip by mid-summer.
We had to build a motor that we were totally unfamiliar with (no 6-cylinders or forced induction in either my, or my 73-year-old racing partner's history) so it's been a steep learning curve.

As far as its sound, turbo's tend to homogenize sound waves.... might not feature much in the way of exhaust notes....:sad10:

We'll see...
 
Bill you raise a good point with turbos muffling the exhaust note. I have a Stage 2 (Buick Indy motor) Grand National and it is louder than most due to its higher compression 9.5 to1 compared to most 8.0 to1 and another benefit is faster spool.

Some things to consider when building a turbo motor but a stout block and internals are very important. If you can keep detonation from rearing its ugly head the power that can be achieved with turbos is astounding.

There's a video on youtube of a dart with a wild sounding 6 shooter, I'll dig it up for ya.

The kind words are well deserved ;-)
 
kustom2k1 said:
Bill you raise a good point with turbos muffling the exhaust note. I have a Stage 2 (Buick Indy motor) Grand National and it is louder than most due to its higher compression 9.5 to1 compared to most 8.0 to1 and another benefit is faster spool.

Some things to consider when building a turbo motor but a stout block and internals are very important. If you can keep detonation from rearing its ugly head the power that can be achieved with turbos is astounding.

There's a video on youtube of a dart with a wild sounding 6 shooter, I'll dig it up for ya.

The kind words are well deserved ;-)
Click to expand...

The ONLY reason we chose a /6 is because of its near-indestructable nature, which came about accidentally, almost, as the result of its having been originally desingned to be cast as an aluminim motor. That meant thicker EVERYTHING, because as you know, aluminum isn't as strong as cast iron.

After about 60,000 aluminum engines, MA MOPAR decided that they couldn't live with the excessive problems that the aluminum was giving them, so they changed the block material to cast iron. When they did, they didn't modify the cores any more than they HAD TO, (cheaper) so almost the entire engine ended up being cast as it was in aluminum... thick deck, thick main bearing webs, an 84 pound cylinder head (always cast iron), and a forged crank that had main bearings the same sizze as a 426 Hemi... and short.

The engine ended up as a little rigid tough guy, that can withstand boost in egregious amounts.

We/re eventually going to find its Achilles Heel, so-to-speak... but plan on having a lot of fun along the way. :hello1:

The stoutness and rigidity of this little /6 engine, is a too-well-kept secret! A high-boost /6 with appropriate intake and turbo plumbing is pretty much a match for a well bulit 340/360 normally-aspirated motor, I think (500-600 HP.)

Who knows, the figure of 40 pounds keeps creeping into the space where my brain should be, but I am painfully aware of the necessity of keeping detonation at bay, so it may take alcohol, or at least, E-85, to achieve that.

Talk's cheap... time will tell!

Thanks for your support. It means a lot!
 
Need to thank you for a great history lesson on what sounds like an unintentionally well built motor. 40lbs of boost, you werent kidding about finding its achilles heal and you make it sound very intentional :)
Curious how many head bolts. E85 is the way to go when running extremely high boost levels. Hope you can document the build so we can follow your progress!! Here is the vid I mentioned earlier.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uey_OKnOvKE"]YouTube - 1969 Dart Hyperpack Burnout and 1/4 Mile run 4-6-08[/ame]
 
kustom2k1 said:
Need to thank you for a great history lesson on what sounds like an unintentionally well built motor. 40lbs of boost, you werent kidding about finding its achilles heal and you make it sound very intentional :)
Curious how many head bolts. E85 is the way to go when running extremely high boost levels. Hope you can document the build so we can follow your progress!! Here is the vid I mentioned earlier.

YouTube - 1969 Dart Hyperpack Burnout and 1/4 Mile run 4-6-08
Click to expand...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ur welcome!!!

Thanks for the video! That's one sweet-sounding /6!

Only 4 head bolts(good question!), but (I haven't actually measured this) because the bores are so small (3.40",) the distance between the bolts may well be less than that of some of the big-bore engines with 5, and I think that may be significant.

Ryan and Tom are both running around 500 HP, maybe more, and neither of them have tried 30 pounds of boost, yet, so it looks like an interesting summer (assuming Freddie and I can get this bucket of bolts together, by the end of summer.) We're slow, but we're so old that it doesn't bother us much... nothing bothers us much...:profilel:

This is more than anything else, just an experiment... we're curious.

One of the guys in our "forced induction club" has a Jack Cotten-built Stage motor Buick T-Type that we'll never be able to touch (potential for high 8s) ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$), but we're hoping to get by the rest...

I may have to eat those words (probably WILL,) but, we're hopin'....8)
 
I must say I've become very intrigued with the 6. Always wanted a Hemi dart, but it seems I've been bitten with the turbo bug after watching some more videos on youtube.
Interesting motor to say the least, and the placement of the intake and exhaust manifolds is quite interesting. Looks like the intake would heat up being so close to the exhaust. Are you planning to intercool your set up?

My Ex was a member of the forced suction club, any affiliation? :)
Ahh club competition I see, sure keeps things interesting I'd say. Yes I can attest those Sll Buicks make some serious power ;-)

You know your old when you have an autographed copy of the Bible Bill!



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDWYS7NU_Q8&NR=1&feature=fvwp"]YouTube - Tilley's turbo VC - turbocharged 225ci slant six[/ame]
 
Bill Dedman said:
The carburetor is a Carb Shop item that utilizes God Knows What technogy they employ to accomplish that (enrichening under increased boost.) For $900.00, it ought to do SOMETHING!!!
Click to expand...

So you're not using a boost referenced regulator to raise fuel pressure?

Steve
 
LXguy said:
So you're not using a boost referenced regulator to raise fuel pressure?

Steve
Click to expand...

Yes, I am using a Product Engineering, boost referenced, fuel pressure regulator. You can see it in this picture:

But, it doesn't increase fuel to the engine; it just keeps the delivered fuel presure to the carb at 6 pounds, even when the boost goes up.

The pump delivers 31 psi. to the regulator, at all times.

Raising pressuere to the carb is one thing' rasing the amount of fuel to the engine is a different issue, I think.

Hope this helps....
 

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kustom2k1 said:
I must say I've become very intrigued with the 6. Always wanted a Hemi dart, but it seems I've been bitten with the turbo bug after watching some more videos on youtube.
Interesting motor to say the least, and the placement of the intake and exhaust manifolds is quite interesting. Looks like the intake would heat up being so close to the exhaust. Are you planning to intercool your set up?

My Ex was a member of the forced suction club, any affiliation? :)
Ahh club competition I see, sure keeps things interesting I'd say. Yes I can attest those Sll Buicks make some serious power ;-)

You know your old when you have an autographed copy of the Bible Bill!


QUOTE]
The intake and exhaust manifold placement is pretty much standard practice for inline motors of that era... both on the same side of the engine, which the 240/300 Ford 6 and the 250/292 Chevy six also use.

Makes turbo plumbing easy. I don't know about the heat transfer , but the short distance the intake and exhaust travel, parallel, would probably minimize that, using the header we have. See pix....

Your EX sounds like a keeper....8)
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