hard shifting 833

-

mbaird

mbaird
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
9,338
Reaction score
6,548
Location
boise, Id
I just put the 4sp back in my Dart and am having trouble getting the shifting
smooth.
I use an aluminum 833 O.D and have had it in the car before. I had it adjusted
perfectly before , so I dont think it is an internal problem.
I did a search on the problem and saw some of you mention clutch adjustment
and fluid changes.
What are your recomendations on these ?

I am running a Mcleod dual friction diaphram clutch and thought I had put synthetic oil in the trany
 
I think you're on the right track. Make sure the clutch is disengaging properly and confirm what fluid you have in it. It needs to be a GL4-rated gear oil. Some of the newer synthetics are fine as long as they are a GL4 MTL fluid. My A833 was kinda notchy and slow running a conventional GL4. It smoothed right out after changing it over to Specialty Formulations MTL-R. Amsoil offers a really good synthetic 75W-90, but it is pricey.
 
Did you check the pilot bearing and bellhousing runout? If the input shaft is binding/rotating at the pilot bearing when it`s not supposed to ,it will be hard to shift and may grind.
 
I used a roller pilot bearing ,so that should not be the problem . (?)
as for the clutch adjustment , how much play should I have and what
is the best way to measure it?

BTW, it is recommended to remove the over center spring when running
a diaphram clutch. HOW IN THE HELL DOES ANYONE SHORT OF HERCULES GET THAT THING OFF !!!
 
I was talking to a buddy of mine the other day (he has forgotten more about 4 speeds than most will ever learn) and he told me something I hadn't heard before. He said that if it has an aluminum case it should use some form of ATF for fluid. If it has a steel case it uses 80-90 gear oil (or whatever gear oil you want to use) I have also heard others say that using synthetic with a four speed isn't a good idea because the fluid provides better lubricity (ie is more slippery than regular 80-90 and causes problems for the engagement dogs because they do not slow down like they should (or something to that effect). He said that this was true from late 70's on. So if your running an A833 aluminum OD unit from a late 70's thru 80's mopar, you need to use ATF as your fluid. I am certain he is correct but to completely remove doubt, crawl under (if you don't already have the info written down somewhere) and get the model number off of the trans housing and call your local stealership and ask someone in service or parts what the recommended fluid is, they should be able to look it up.
 
actually he is correct, I do believe the service manual recomends ATF . I have been thinking about refilling it with ATF , but if all the seals aren't real tight they have a tendency to drip from one orifice or another
 
And when was that service manual published? Anyonie who recommends ATF in a manual transmission these days is clearly out of touch and not to be taken seriously. There are so many more better alternatives out there now.
 
OBTW, if you're running in a cold climate or feel the need to use an ATF-level viscosity, then a good synthetic synchromesh would be your fluid of chioce. Pennzoil makes one, Mopar (expensive) and RP Synchromax come to mind.
 
I have had more than just my Dart with an auto trans. My 73 Road Runner clone had an A 833 OD trans that I overhauled and put in it. I had problems with it not shifting very smoothly also because I ran 80-90 (back then I thought thats what ALL manual transmissions used. I was discussing those problems with my buudy (as I stated) just a few days back and he told me about the fluid and what I should have been using. Grow up. You have no clue.
 
Posts edited to remove personal attacks
- KNOCK IT OFF -
If you cant post without insulting or attacking people, then dont post.
 
According to my "owners manual" in my '72 Duster ATF is the recommended fluid for most situations in the manual transmission cars. It does add that in hotter climates you can use a lighter gear oil. So it is OK to use either fluid but I prefer the ATF the syncronizers seem to work better slowing down the gear with this fluid. The reason gear oil is not required is because the gear are not a hypoid gear like ring and pinion. Chrysler front wheel drive automatics obviously use ATF and they have a ring and pinion in them. It is OK because the ring and pinion are a regular bevel gear and not a hypoid gear.

Chuck
 
Hypoid gears would require a GL-5 rated gear oil. Straightcut gears in a standard gearbox would want a GL-4. Bonus question: Why have GL-5 oils not traditionally been recommended for tranny gearboxes? Hint: It has to do with the synchros, and the situation is changing, even as we speak.

Let's let Krapy answer this one, to see if he really knows what he is talking about.
 
Ace said:
And when was that service manual published? Anyonie who recommends ATF in a manual transmission these days is clearly out of touch and not to be taken seriously. There are so many more better alternatives out there now.

ATF was the recomended fill for the A833 in most all cases. As late as 85 the 5 spd manual transaxle in my Daytona recomended ATF. The 99 Daytona with the Gatrag gear box recomend 10W-30 motor oil and my 99 Dakota 4x4 recomends ATF in the transfer case.

There may be better alternatives now but the factory recomended ATF in manual trannies for many years.

FWIW, I am running an A833OD in my Barracuda. I pulled it from an 81 pick-up and it had gear oil in it when I got it. Though I would treat it to synthetic gear oil when I put it in the car. BIG BIG mistake, syncros crashed on up shifts and down shifts and it was very hard to get it into any gear. Swapped to the recomended ATF and what a difference, smooth and quick shifting.

BTW, it's been over 30k miles on the ATF fill and I am changing it before I take the car out for the season and I am going to give the Penzoil syncromesh fluid a try.
 
Ace said:
Let's let Krapy answer this one, to see if he really knows what he is talking about.


Be nice, you are just asking for a confrontation and that is not how to get things done.


Chuck
 
Dave, the reason for the problem you saw lies in the answer to my question...
 
Honda manual transaxles use motor oil so there is all kinds of differnt oils used in different situations.

I have been running ATF in all of my 833's including the ones I used to run in my GM cars before I was a Mopar guy and they work fine.


Chuck
 
mbaird said:
I used a roller pilot bearing ,so that should not be the problem . (?)
as for the clutch adjustment , how much play should I have and what
is the best way to measure it?

BTW, it is recommended to remove the over center spring when running
a diaphram clutch. HOW IN THE HELL DOES ANYONE SHORT OF HERCULES GET THAT THING OFF !!!

Okay as long as the shaft is centered well, you should be good to go there. I think you should have about an inch of freeplay at the pedal which measured at your adjustment rod should equal about 5/32`s. As far as the spring just be careful and use a long lever in there to remove it.
 
well I think I am ready to tackle that spring. I've got my full face MX helmet
and all my hockey gear on , so I should be safe !!
All I need is a 12' pry bar .

Thanks for all the input , I'm heading home to tackle the job.
 
Ace said:
Dave, the reason for the problem you saw lies in the answer to my question...

I understand that, just relating my experience to confirm your statement about synthetic gear oil.
 
Ace said:
Hypoid gears would require a GL-5 rated gear oil. Straightcut gears in a standard gearbox would want a GL-4. Bonus question: Why have GL-5 oils not traditionally been recommended for tranny gearboxes? Hint: It has to do with the synchros, and the situation is changing, even as we speak.


GL-5 lubricant can be and some specify that it be used in a transmission, here is a link to Valvoline gear oils.
http://www.valvoline.co.nz/prod0111.htm

But this isn't really the issue. The factory manuals recommended ATF years ago and the gear boxes haven't evolved into some other kind of tranny they are still the same trannys as when the manuals were written.


Chuck
 
I would give someone a call who specializes in Mopar 4-speeds,
such as Passon Performance or Brewer's Performance.The phone
no. for Passon Performance is 570-401-8949. The no for Brewer's
Performance is 937-698-4259.I have talked to Passon at the Mopar
Nationals and they were cool to talk with.I have purchased some
items from Brewer's and I am very happy with them.Hope this helps.
 
One other thing I should have mentioned was to make sure your shifter linkage is adjusted properly. Since the guys were talking about fluids, I looked in my `68 service manual to see what it listed. This is what the Chrysler manual says: if you live in a warm climate use SAE 140 gear oil and for cold climates SAE 80-90 weight gear oil or extreme cold climates use AQ-ATF automatic transmission fluid, A-suffix Dexron. Now these weights and fluids are for a `68 model A-833 iron case 4 spd., but you can still see that what fluid you use, depends a lot on where you live. Good luck getting that spring off, and when you do, tell me what you used because I have to do it too!
 
I use redline MTL GL4 in my 833 and have no issues shifting it. I also have seen where ATF is recommended by the factory service manuals. Try changing it and see if it makes a difference.
 
66 dartgt, was that the 70/90 redline or the 90w. We
have both in our parts dept. I would lean towards the
lighter of the 2
 
-
Back
Top