JOSS ENGINES W2 468ci. What will it make??

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StrokerValiant

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Hey everyone,

Any guesses what this combo will make?? Just waiting on a few things like bearings and such, then it's going together and getting strapped to a dyno ( probably the chassis dyno)

468ci small block.
1050 Holley Dominator
Victor W2
Econo W2 heads 54cc (done by Brian at IMM)
2.02 intake 1.6 exhaust
T&D 1.7 rockers
13.1:1
Custom Comp solid roller
277/284 @ .050
.748" intake .714" exhaust
110 LSA
108 installed
If I remember correctly it has 2 degrees advance built in ( I will check the cam card again later)
4.185 bore
4.25 stroke
R3 673AD (9.600 deck 48deg siamized bore)
1-3/4" hooker headers for now until I can make the bigger headers fit the car.

It will be in my F body dodge Aspen for now until the valiant it ready. 727 and 8 3/4 with 3.23 gears. Not sure what it will weight. I would guess race weight to be around 3500-3600lbs.

IF we have time to engine dyno this thing, it will have the 1-7/8" Heddman headers on it. But we don't have much time on this one, so, it may just go straight into the car.

So what's your guesses for dyno numbers ( the chassis dyno is a bit generous) OR What do you think it will run in the Aspen?

-Kenny
 
Depends on what those heads flow. The 2.02 valve may hold it back but I'd say if they are good it will make around 690-720.
 
Yup, 700 was the first figure that popped into my head. 2.02 intake and smallish headers may cost a little though.
 
620-650 on a chassis dyno. I agree the valves may hold it back some.
 

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Right on. Keep the guesses coming. We still have a bit of time before it is all bolted up and running.

Yes, the valves and headers are on the small side for sure. Ideally, a set of W8's would be best on this thing, but I am using the parts I have collected over the years.

The heads are around 300cfm from .500" lift to .650" lift if I recall correctly. I think they peaked at .550" @ 306cfm. I will have to look at the flow sheet again, or maybe Brian will chime in. He probably knows the numbers off by heart since they were the heads on his 360 in his duster.
 
3.23 gears , i could see 3.73s with that big motor.either way motor sounds very nasty.
 
35regal said:
3.23 gears , i could see 3.73s with that big motor.either way motor sounds very nasty.
Click to expand...


Haha, yeah, I know. the 3.23 are WAY OFF. I can only best describe it as launching a dump truck. here is a video with the car running a 434ci. W2 set up and the 3.23 gears....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_0kq1AkkEI"]YouTube - ‪Kenny and Jason both red lighting‬‏[/ame]

When the engine goes into the Valiant it will be in front of some 4.10 gears.
 
StrokerValiant said:
Hey everyone,

Any guesses what this combo will make?? Just waiting on a few things like bearings and such, then it's going together and getting strapped to a dyno ( probably the chassis dyno)

468ci small block.
1050 Holley Dominator
Victor W2
Econo W2 heads 54cc (done by Brian at IMM)
2.02 intake 1.6 exhaust
T&D 1.7 rockers
13.1:1
Custom Comp solid roller
277/284 @ .050
.748" intake .714" exhaust
110 LSA
108 installed
If I remember correctly it has 2 degrees advance built in ( I will check the cam card again later)
4.185 bore
4.25 stroke
R3 673AD (9.600 deck 48deg siamized bore)
1-3/4" hooker headers for now until I can make the bigger headers fit the car.

It will be in my F body dodge Aspen for now until the valiant it ready. 727 and 8 3/4 with 3.23 gears. Not sure what it will weight. I would guess race weight to be around 3500-3600lbs.

IF we have time to engine dyno this thing, it will have the 1-7/8" Heddman headers on it. But we don't have much time on this one, so, it may just go straight into the car.

So what's your guesses for dyno numbers ( the chassis dyno is a bit generous) OR What do you think it will run in the Aspen?

-Kenny
Click to expand...

I'll say more than 400 at the wheels. I think if you had the heads ported by someone better, you'd easily have 600 at the wheels. But hey, what do I know...?
 
ou812 said:
I'll say more than 400 at the wheels. I think if you had the heads ported by someone better, you'd easily have 600 at the wheels. But hey, what do I know...?
Click to expand...

Yeah, your a punk. lol. What do you know eh? haha. All joking aside, these W2's you have done are proven heads.

For a comparison, The engine that came out of the car was a 434ci. stock block 318 engine. At first, I was running my heavily worked over J heads with 2.05/1.60" valves. The compression was 11.5:1 and the cam was 262/262 @ .050" and .575"/.575" lift. (off the shelf comp)

We bolted Brian's W2's on the engine, which brought the compression up to 12.8:1 and changed nothing else in the engine. the lift was now around .650" with the 1.7 rockers. The car picked up 91rwhp just from the head swap.

HEADS ARE IMPORTANT. haha. It will be interesting to see what this combo does I think.

-Kenny
 
121 mph in the 1/4 mile with 3.23 gears...what is the top speed--like after a 1/2 mile, 150, lol

Yeah those W2 heads are a big improvement over even ported stock heads. Hotrod mag in 1979 put W2 heads on a stock low compression 360 with the old 284 "hemi" cam and got 75 HP more. (A motor magic)


You should be able to get in to the 9's with the right gears and the new motor--I really think so. If the fuel system is up to par and the chassis is set up right. Expect 140 mph with 4.10 gears and 28 inch tires is 7,000 rpm, maybe you are running a taller tire?

I heard those fast cars-times can be tricky to drive, easy to wipe out and hit the wall. You be careful out there !
 
dodge freak said:
121 mph in the 1/4 mile with 3.23 gears...what is the top speed--like after a 1/2 mile, 150, lol

Yeah those W2 heads are a big improvement over even ported stock heads. Hotrod mag in 1979 put W2 heads on a stock low compression 360 with the old 284 "hemi" cam and got 75 HP more. (A motor magic)


You should be able to get in to the 9's with the right gears and the new motor--I really think so. If the fuel system is up to par and the chassis is set up right. Expect 140 mph with 4.10 gears and 28 inch tires is 7,000 rpm, maybe you are running a taller tire?

I heard those fast cars-times can be tricky to drive, easy to wipe out and hit the wall. You be careful out there !
Click to expand...

Yeah the car has gone 124mph so far on the 434 w2 set up. I don't really plan on a gear change in the Aspen. I forgot to mention, the rear end is a BONE STOCK 8-3/4. So, the 3.23's are a little easier on the stock axles and sure grip. I don't expect a 9 out of this thing in this car. We race at around 4000ft usually too, so that doesn't help.

The valiant will have a 28" or 30" tall tire when it is complete. I am thinking the 30" tire will work better with the Jerico set up in the car. When we mini tub the car, and move the leafs in, we will be shooting to fit a 10.5WX29.5 M/T.
 
360duster said:
Hey Kenny, nice Valiant - and a nice engine for it! Like your car.

Michael
Click to expand...

Thanks Michael, I can't wait to go pick it up and start working on it! It is still in Utah at the moment.

Here is the car the engine will be going in until the Valiant is ready for it....

1976 Dodge Aspen

3710620545_ee1ce39eaa_b.jpg
 
man that thing runs even with the 3.23s, that thing will really set you in your set with the right gears!!
 
I ran a 372 ci with econo w2's that I ported myself.
638 comp roller 2.08's and 2" primaries. 12.5 :1
It dynoed 348 to the wheels while bending the pushrods.... comp sent me 3sets of pushrods.. on the 3 set the tech guy says "we don't make a PR for that setup.....you have togo to Smith...."
You will make easy 620hp. Should use 2.08 and 2" primaries though..

BTW, Herb McCandless walked me through the build on the phone and I ported myself with DC template kit
 
Guitar Jones said:
Depends on what those heads flow. The 2.02 valve may hold it back but I'd say if they are good it will make around 690-720.
Click to expand...

I agree, it totally depends on what your heads flow...I will guess ~680-701.
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
If they were ported by someine who knows what to do with w2's=325-335 cfm average...
..Im thinking like....670 right off the bat, then after tuning/tricks..740'ish
Click to expand...

Yeah, you also have to take flow numbers with a grain of salt in my opinion. I did get a flow sheet with the heads when I bought them from Brian. They didn't flow huge numbers on Brian's bench. I didn't even bother putting them on our bench. There are two reasons why I didn't flow the heads. #1: As usual i didn't really have time for it. #2: They were a proven head at the track. I was not too concerned what they flowed on bench because of how well they worked on Brian's Duster on the track.

This top end was on, basically a stock rebuild bottom end 360 in a 3350lbs. duster. Brian, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the car went 10.52 @ 126mph??? Hyperhuetectic KB Pistons, stock rods, stock crank, and asolid flat tappet cam. This was the information I was paying attention too. Infact, I don't think I ever asked Brian what they flowed, they just showed up with a flow sheet. haha.

Also, keep in mind, our chassis dyno seems to read on the high side. Again, it is just a number, and from those numbers, we can tune the car, and figure out what the car will run before hitting the track.

this top end on my 434ci. that ran 124mph with my 3500-3600lbs. car, it made around 540rwhp at our current elevation (it worked out to about 610rwhp corrected to sea level). It had less compression, less cam, and less cubes (12.8:1, 262/262 @ .050" .575"/.575" lift, 110lsa, and 434ci.)

So, hopefully this helps with the guessing game. Personally, I don't really know what to expect from the new combo, but I am excited to find out what it does!

How about we sweeten the deal?? Lets start guessing RWHP numbers on our dyno. pick a number, and whoever is closest will get some free "JOSS ENGINES" decals?? good for the tool box or something. haha. It may take a while to ship them since Canada Post is on strike currently, but hey, it could be a fun little game.

-Kenny
 
To me the numbers arent necessarily taken as a grain of salt, not when the cam is right.
I look at what flow is accessed by lift, to start, and of corse where the cams mid lift vs flow in that range.

You can make power than the air flow shows, but imo it's not wise to take the numbers for grain of salt
 
Maybe "a grain of salt" isn't the best way to put it. I have the flow numbers, and I am happy with them, because I know the head is a proven head. You also have to remember these flow numbers are being created with a constant dry flow... That does not show what they head will do on an engine, which is a cycled, wet flow. What the head does on the flow bench does not directly convert into HP. You can have a head that flows like gang busters, but if the CSA is way off for the engine, it isn't going to work very well.

The flow bench is a good tool to help make a head work, but at the end of the day, it is the total engine design that needs to be right.

Is this engine the ideal combo? No, it really should have a bigger head, and bigger header, and a converter, and gears etc.... But I am using the parts I have, kind of makes it more fun to try and guess what it will make. Or at least that's what I am telling myself. haha.

1wild&crazyguy, I appreciate the interest you have in my project, and the tech talk. I am not trying to be snappy or anything either if it is coming across that way.
 
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