Foreign cars

No, I get the point. I am just of the opinion that destroying our economy is too great a price to pay for people wanting "superior" cars.

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so we should spend our hard earned money on an inferior product? what sense does that make.

look i can't speak for others experience but my personal experience is :

bought a new 92 shadow in 92. freaking paint was falling off in a year, broken motor mount, bad flare on the exhaust and bunch of other little ****. all warranty crap but it was back to the dealer multiple times for these issues because they didn't fix them right the first time. those fuckers even dented the car one time it was in and i damn near had to get arrested for them to fix it and that took 3 times back before it looked half decent.

bought a new dakota in 93. tons of nagging lil things that the truck had to go back to the dealer for. a couple ones that really pissed me off were a bad headlight switch at like 14,000 miles and they wouldn't cover it because electric was only covered for 12,000 miles, and the damn steering shaft was screwed up where it met the steering box and would clunk. freaking service dept couldn't hear/feel it they said. well hell my sister who doesn't know what end of a wrench to hold could hear and feel it. had to get the service manager out to say he could feel it.. their answer was to just put grease in the joint. after a couple thousand miles it started to clunk again. they changed the coupler and it fixed it for a year then it started again. another new coupler and it was fixed again but now i only had a few thousand miles left on the warranty and when i asked whats going to happen when it starts again and its out of warranty their answer was we will cross that bridge when we get to it.. yea right. they would have screwed me. got rid of that ***** before it started again...

i went through those two cars after busting my brothers balls for buying a new 92 tercel for $7800. that was thousands cheaper them my shadow and a ton cheaper then my dakota. well that bastard had the last laugh. whil i was back to the dealer getting a damn headache every time i went, his car was only back to the dealer for one thing other then routine maintenance. know what the problem was? the A/C condensate drain was clogged from lack of use. he put the A/C on one day and it dripped inside the car. took it back got the car back and didn't have to fight with anyone to get it done fast and right.. he had that car for years and never had any of the issues i had have with my almighty dodges...

then in 99 my sister buys a civic. damn man. that dealer bent over backwards to take care of here when buying. i would take it up from time to time for its oil changes and man that place operated so smooth compared to any of the dodge dealers i have been in. then on day i took it in for service and i noticed when i got home that the hood was dented like a wrench was dropped on it. we called them, they said to bring it up so they could see it. i'm thinking here we go. there is going to be a fight because from my experience dealing with dodge thats what it was going to take to get it fixed. well the service manager looks at it, says give me your keys,pick up your loaner over there and we will call ys when its ready. a couple days later we pick it up and its fixed and fixed right. now thats customer service...

fast forward to 2009. we buy a magnum with 17,000 miles on it. i figured hell its been a while maybe they straightened out their act some.... what a mistake that was. just buying the car was a headache. should have walked away then when they didn't want to give me a second key with the car. but thats a story all to itself.. first week jamie runs out of gas with the gauge reading a quarter tank with my 2 month daughter in the car. this is in the winter too. get it towed in and it need two fuel pumps. really with under 20k on it? ok whatever. get the car back she fills it up and the damn thing smells like gas inside. well they fucked something up under there and it was leaking. so back to the dealer we go. this time its fixed good but it too two times . then the remote door lock reciever goes, ok not a big issue but a nagging issue, then jamie is leaving for work and the shifter won't come out of park. so its towed in yet again they say they replaced the shifter but a few months later its stuck in park again. they say they replaced it again ( it was actually fine till we got rid of that **** box). bad tie rods at under 30k miles. i know there were a few other nagging things it had to go back for and the topper was jamie goes to leave for work and the car starts then shuts off a few times then its dead all together.... so it gets towed in yet again and they tell me that some module is bad and its not covered under extended warranty so its going to cost $600 to fix and the key is bad because it has water in it.. ok i find out that jamie accidently ran the key through the wash... so i ask is it the bad key that is causing this to lock us out? they say no because they went through three pages of tests and it came up this module. they also say maybe you should talk to the mechanic.... so i get there with my spare key and before i go in i start it up and guess what. yup it starts and runs just fine. so i go in and ask again. are you sure its not just the ket since it has a chip in it and it will lock you out and do exactly what its doing if you have the wrong key in it. its a anti theft device.. yea we are sure we went through all these tests.. i say yea well i just started it and its fine with my good key... oh let me get the mechanic. i give him the key and he starts it and its fine.. he is like i would drive it. i said yea i'm going to drive it alright. right to a toyota dealer and there will be a second toyota in my driveway by the end of the week... freaking try to **** me on a $600 module when all it needed was a new expensive key. ******* thieves...


so i'm finished with anything with chrysler after 1971 except for maybe for a lil red express. screw them and their garbage..... funny thing is i have friends that have bought new gm and ford products and they all have the same bullshit problems...

WOW, I hear a lot of talk about economics and I doubt anyone serious knows exactly what makes a country's economy work. This down turn in our economy had nothing to do with where goods are made and who bought them. A nation's economy goes into recession every few years, it's just the nature of economics. This down turn was made more severe due to financial scams and greed by big time bankers and a bloated housing industry. The housing industry went not only because of poor mortgage loans but also because housing values were more than the houses were really worth. It will take time for our economy to rise but it won't be because people are buying or not buying foreign cars. Even if the unemployment rate is 30%, that means 70% of the population is working. Those 70% percent need to start buying goods which will put Americans back to work no matter if they are in manufacturing, sales, mechanics, shipping, banking, services, design, etc, etc, etc.
An economy is not as simple as some person buying a item manufactured in the US as there are may other facets to an economy. Even if an item is manufactured in another country, it is handled, shipped, unloaded, transported, sold and serviced by an American worker. And if you are talking about cars, you are only talking about new cars. You can buy any used car, manufactured anywhere and those profits stay completely in the US.

..when I last checked, you could buy a new mustang ..plain jane of course for 22K..but who wants that debt when you are young. BTW, I am a boomer and debt is too easy.

I live in a subdivsion where walking / bicycling is not an option. All my neighbours have bought cars ..japanise..for their kids. On family, do to a small bump has regretted it..big bill. I bought the kids a '75 duster that they are rolling up their sleeves and doing a bunch of the rebuild. That same neighbour tried to do the same for his kids..they flatly have refused.

I like how how the Duster is built..real metal for bumpers, etc.. My kids take real pride in what they are doing and their car. In their high school parking lot, one more '70 has appeared..

This has been a great thread..and I do worry about our kids futures and our two countries...

Grassy

I'm not buying a new car no matter who makes it. If I add a three to four hundred dollar car payment to my budget along with the bump in insurance, my budget fails. I then become part of the problem. That, my friends, is economics.

As a person with 3 small kids, there are zero affordable larger vehicles from American manufacturers. Ford doesn't eben make a minivan anymore and the dodges start at 30k. So there is truth that we are heading back to the late 70's with low quality bloated vehicles that no one wants, its kinda come full circle again. Detroit woke up but its to late again, The imports from japan smacked them around in the 70s-90s now it imports from Korea. The formula is simple a good reliable car for a good price that people want and will drive. Toyota figured it out with the camry and Honda the Civic, these ain't cutting edge styled cars just simple nice looking cars that get the job done.

Ok I have an opinion on the subject......buy American right....Ok how does this one grab ya. A couple of years ago the big 3 went to Washington Dc on hand and knee looking for a bailout..... Gm and Chrysler both walked away with our taxpayer money to keep them from going under! Ford decided to suck it up and go it on thier own....reason enough for me to NEVER own another new GM or Chrysler, yet I digress. So fast forward a few years this summer in fact General Motors gives the American buying public a GIANT THANK YOU, with the announcement of the building and expansion of some car lines in MEXICO!!!!! Detroit looks like Beirut, there are assembly plants all over that area, plenty of outawork UAW employees, and how does GM thank us and them.....more Mexican built cars!!! Maybe that is why so many of us are willing to buy a foreign car!!! My wifes $45k 2011 Honda Oddysey minivan was made in the USA by some schlub like you and I. My money went to his wages...that in turn stimulates the US economy.....not the Mexican economy!

hemitheus said:

Finally someone who gets it. I thought I stood alone.

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Your not alone but its like beating your head of a brick wall. F the imports. F the imports that are built here.

Dodge Ram Crew cab 1500 - 2010
Dodge Dakota - 2003
Dodge Dart - 1968 (under construction)
Dodge Crew Cab - 1964
Dodge Demon - 1971 (under construction)
H2 - 2003
Plymouth Duster - 1971 (My hemi car)
Plymouth Duster - 1972 (project)
Plymouth Duster - 1970
Pontiac Solstice - 2008? cant remember! LOL

71dusterdan said:

Ok I have an opinion on the subject......buy American right....Ok how does this one grab ya. A couple of years ago the big 3 went to Washington Dc on hand and knee looking for a bailout..... Gm and Chrysler both walked away with our taxpayer money to keep them from going under! Ford decided to suck it up and go it on thier own....reason enough for me to NEVER own another new GM or Chrysler, yet I digress. So fast forward a few years this summer in fact General Motors gives the American buying public a GIANT THANK YOU, with the announcement of the building and expansion of some car lines in MEXICO!!!!! Detroit looks like Beirut, there are assembly plants all over that area, plenty of outawork UAW employees, and how does GM thank us and them.....more Mexican built cars!!! Maybe that is why so many of us are willing to buy a foreign car!!! My wifes $45k 2011 Honda Oddysey minivan was made in the USA by some schlub like you and I. My money went to his wages...that in turn stimulates the US economy.....not the Mexican economy!

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Just thank AB, and the over paid unions...................

71dusterdan said:

Ok I have an opinion on the subject......buy American right....Ok how does this one grab ya. A couple of years ago the big 3 went to Washington Dc on hand and knee looking for a bailout..... Gm and Chrysler both walked away with our taxpayer money to keep them from going under! Ford decided to suck it up and go it on thier own....reason enough for me to NEVER own another new GM or Chrysler, yet I digress. So fast forward a few years this summer in fact General Motors gives the American buying public a GIANT THANK YOU, with the announcement of the building and expansion of some car lines in MEXICO!!!!! Detroit looks like Beirut, there are assembly plants all over that area, plenty of outawork UAW employees, and how does GM thank us and them.....more Mexican built cars!!! Maybe that is why so many of us are willing to buy a foreign car!!! My wifes $45k 2011 Honda Oddysey minivan was made in the USA by some schlub like you and I. My money went to his wages...that in turn stimulates the US economy.....not the Mexican economy!

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And being as close to Janesville as I am you know what happened. I live a block from the GM plant. The GM plant that is now falling into shambles because it's closed. The oldest GM plant in the country. 3,000 people in my home town lost their jobs due to GM's poor business policies. And that was just at the plant... not the 10+ other businesses that supported the plant. The same GM plant that my tax dollars paid for a 10 MILLION dollar road to ease the transportation of goods into and out of the plant. A road that I paid for, they used, and then left. I say. F GM, and F GM's Mexican garbage. :salute: Oh and I also would like to thank the over paid, greedy Union workers who wouldn't budge to keep their jobs, I have now lost 30k in equity on my house due to the piss poor economy in my home town. THANKS GM!

Simple, the government has to get their heads strait and limit or tax the hell out of imports.

This is a real good thread. LOTS of opinion. Good to let it out once in awhile. Im gonna watch this one for awhile!!

By the way, just to stir the pot a little has anyone else noticed the huge surge in German imports, mostly Volkswagon. Seems to be lots more of them around in the last few years. Kind of makes you wonder if Japanese imports might have hit a ripple in the road somewhat!! Oh yeah, did not get a picture as the vehicle passed me by to quick in my semi to get the time to capture it on film. I saw a Porsche SUV. This really shows the direction of the consumer. Imagine paying like 90K and having a user friendly family cruiser that goes zero to sixty in 4.0 seconds and tops out at 200 mph. This is too much, roflmao!!!

Very well said. I figured that on a Mopar site more people would relate and understand what i am saying. I was shocked at how many didnt.

When people are dropping 20k+ on a driver they want to get more than 36,000 miles out it before it craps out.

My 17 year old toyota still looks and runs great........... Most 17 year old American cars are in a gunk yard.

Kia makes a better car than Chevy or Dodge.

Cars are expensive, why buy something that is not going to last?

hemitheus said:

Very well said. I figured that on a Mopar site more people would relate and understand what i am saying. I was shocked at how many didnt.

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I totally understand and support what you are saying. I'm just not convinced the concept is sound enough to reach the goal you desire.
Would buying only American cars create more jobs here in the US and turn the economy around? Sure, if you can guarantee that the major US manufacturers would quit outsourcing jobs to places outside our borders for lower costs and higher profits. Then get the unions to follow along and not line their pockets on the backs of their members or hold out on an agreement until it breaks the company. The feds and states have a role in this also.

Can you guarantee that everyone will play along? That they'll trade huge profits for reasonable ones?

And no, I don't truly believe that strict limiting or severe taxing of imports will work to improve things here, either. I think it would only take pressure off of manufacturers to be competetive.

I am a patriot. I will love and defend my country until you bury me in her soil. Just remember, it's a world economy that has to thrive. A man alone on an island for all of his life, will die alone.

ChazRam said:

This is a real good thread. LOTS of opinion. Good to let it out once in awhile. Im gonna watch this one for awhile!!

By the way, just to stir the pot a little has anyone else noticed the huge surge in German imports, mostly Volkswagon. Seems to be lots more of them around in the last few years. Kind of makes you wonder if Japanese imports might have hit a ripple in the road somewhat!! Oh yeah, did not get a picture as the vehicle passed me by to quick in my semi to get the time to capture it on film. I saw a Porsche SUV. This really shows the direction of the consumer. Imagine paying like 90K and having a user friendly family cruiser that goes zero to sixty in 4.0 seconds and tops out at 200 mph. This is too much, roflmao!!!

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VW 42 mile per gal diesel ...... buy it...

I buy what I don't have to work on much, and if I do, it needs to be fixable. I am the warranty on my vehicles because they are 16 years old. Explorer 5.0 has 230,000+ miles on it with only minor repairs along the way. My Ranger has 125,000 and I would drive it anywhere. The generation "Y" that likes these little throw away cars is a throw away, planned obsolescence generation. If something is 2 years old, it's junk. I come from a different era, where you bought something and kept it for a little longer than that.

66dartman said:

I buy what I don't have to work on much, and if I do, it needs to be fixable. I am the warranty on my vehicles because they are 16 years old. Explorer 5.0 has 230,000+ miles on it with only minor repairs along the way. My Ranger has 125,000 and I would drive it anywhere. The generation "Y" that likes these little throw away cars is a throw away, planned obsolescence generation. If something is 2 years old, it's junk. I come from a different era, where you bought something and kept it for a little longer than that.

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well said .......

Joe, sorry to hear about your Mopar woes. Sounds like you have had more dealer issues than product issues. As a former Mopar dealership tech I can tell you that most Mopar dealerships, from a customer's standpoint are very poorly run. The service dept. is a profit center which is geared to... you guessed it, generate profits! Customers come second. Add to this a poor technician training program and a system that's designed to part the customer from his/her money and you have a deeply engrained problem in (I believe) most American car dealerships that's very tough to change. The customer very rarely does business directly with the manufacturer. They do business with the manufacturer's representative, the dealer, who is a franchisee and a separate and independent business that doesn't always have the manufacturer's best interests at heart. Most dealers lose around 75% of their service customers to the aftermarket. Very unfortunate.

That being said, my family have ALWAYS bought Mopars. Everything from Darts, Monacos, Gran Furys, cheap little Omnis and K-cars etc., to $40k Grand Cherokees and 300s. My 3 sisters don't maintain their cars worth a damn, to the point of being abusive. My dad at least has his oil changed, but not much else. For every Mopar you've had a bad experience with, I can name at least three in my family that have gone well past 100k miles with little or no problems. Yes, we've had door handles break and other stupid stuff go bad, but don't make it sound like foreign cars have no problems. As a former employee of foreign brand dealerships, I can tell you EVERY manufacturer, bar none, has issues with their cars. The difference is how the problems get handled by the dealers, which in turn drives customer perception of quality and value.

Chaz, you mentioned no choice in electronics, clothing, etc. It was only 40 -50 years ago when this country was the world standard in electronics with companies like Zenith and Motorola leading the way. You're right, WE LET the Japanese take the manufacturing of these products from us, and now we're doing the same thing with the automotive segment. Back then, the average guy went to work, saved his money and bought the very same product he or his neighbor helped produce. A Zenith TV, a Westinghouse refridgerator, and a Ford, GM or Chrysler of his choosing.

Every time someone buys a foreign product, it's the same as taking someone's job away in our country. Sooner or later it cascades into a 9.2% unemployment with very little being manufactured here. Know what the difference is between a recession and depression? Recession is when your neighbor loses his job, depression is when you lose your job.

Someone mentioned isolationism. That's an extreme and unrealistic catagorization by those that would do nothing and let things go on as they are. Yes we are in a global economy and that's fine, but how about some self-preservation? If others rely on us for our grain, great! They better be our friends, right? Just like we suck up to the oil producing countries (even though we have our own vast supplies, don't get me started!) Why is it that other countries put huge tariffs on the products we send them but we sign one-sided free trade agreements that allow, nay, encourage ourcorporations to trade jobs for profits? Why do we send monetary aid to other countries when our country has to borrow that very same money and pay interest on it? Why can we send tens of thousands of troops to protect another country's borders yet fail to utilize the few thousand that would be required to protect our own?

I could go on but I'll step down from my soapbox now. Sorry for the rant.

AdamR said:

are there any new American cars under $20K ?

My last 2 drivers were dodge trucks and full of issues, I have a Subaru now, No issues although its pretty boring to drive and Im over the the excitement of having a "nice" driver. the car payments arent worth it.

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yep V6 challenger..... if only it came with a stick.......................

I don't even know if this is relevant but my 88 Mark VII has over 211,000 miles on a totally stock 5.0HO. I just thought I would throw that in there.

res1vw21 said:

yep V6 challenger..... if only it came with a stick.......................

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Cheapest I can find for a base 2011 is 23,900:dontknow:

Mr.Ed said:

Joe, sorry to hear about your Mopar woes. Sounds like you have had more dealer issues than product issues. As a former Mopar dealership tech I can tell you that most Mopar dealerships, from a customer's standpoint are very poorly run. The service dept. is a profit center which is geared to... you guessed it, generate profits! Customers come second. Add to this a poor technician training program and a system that's designed to part the customer from his/her money and you have a deeply engrained problem in (I believe) most American car dealerships that's very tough to change. The customer very rarely does business directly with the manufacturer. They do business with the manufacturer's representative, the dealer, who is a franchisee and a separate and independent business that doesn't always have the manufacturer's best interests at heart. Most dealers lose around 75% of their service customers to the aftermarket. Very unfortunate.

That being said, my family have ALWAYS bought Mopars. Everything from Darts, Monacos, Gran Furys, cheap little Omnis and K-cars etc., to $40k Grand Cherokees and 300s. My 3 sisters don't maintain their cars worth a damn, to the point of being abusive. My dad at least has his oil changed, but not much else. For every Mopar you've had a bad experience with, I can name at least three in my family that have gone well past 100k miles with little or no problems. Yes, we've had door handles break and other stupid stuff go bad, but don't make it sound like foreign cars have no problems. As a former employee of foreign brand dealerships, I can tell you EVERY manufacturer, bar none, has issues with their cars. The difference is how the problems get handled by the dealers, which in turn drives customer perception of quality and value.

Chaz, you mentioned no choice in electronics, clothing, etc. It was only 40 -50 years ago when this country was the world standard in electronics with companies like Zenith and Motorola leading the way. You're right, WE LET the Japanese take the manufacturing of these products from us, and now we're doing the same thing with the automotive segment. Back then, the average guy went to work, saved his money and bought the very same product he or his neighbor helped produce. A Zenith TV, a Westinghouse refridgerator, and a Ford, GM or Chrysler of his choosing.

Every time someone buys a foreign product, it's the same as taking someone's job away in our country. Sooner or later it cascades into a 9.2% unemployment with very little being manufactured here. Know what the difference is between a recession and depression? Recession is when your neighbor loses his job, depression is when you lose your job.

Someone mentioned isolationism. That's an extreme and unrealistic catagorization by those that would do nothing and let things go on as they are. Yes we are in a global economy and that's fine, but how about some self-preservation? If others rely on us for our grain, great! They better be our friends, right? Just like we suck up to the oil producing countries (even though we have our own vast supplies, don't get me started!) Why is it that other countries put huge tariffs on the products we send them but we sign one-sided free trade agreements that allow, nay, encourage ourcorporations to trade jobs for profits? Why do we send monetary aid to other countries when our country has to borrow that very same money and pay interest on it? Why can we send tens of thousands of troops to protect another country's borders yet fail to utilize the few thousand that would be required to protect our own?

I could go on but I'll step down from my soapbox now. Sorry for the rant.

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Dang it Ed, you were so close. You use one word a lot. We. As in perhaps, We the People. We the people buy the cars regardless of who made it. Did we the people sign those trade agreements that gave away so much? Perhaps maybe the answer isn't in what we the people spend but in how we the people vote.

Wow... I just read through this entire thread, and I can honestly say that I think I've just witnessed my first FABO pec*er contest! :shock:

65LoveAffair said:

Wow... I just read through this entire thread, and I can honestly say that I think I've just witnessed my first FABO pec*er contest! :shock:

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You've actually just witnessed true Americans in action. Everything starts with a thought. There are good points in most every post. Every position has it's own basis in fact and a view that you or I may not have thought of or known. I learn way more than I ever would in my average day from the peeps here.