BIG front disks (13"+)

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dustbull

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Hey everyone, I tried doing a search and looking on wilwoods site...etc, but cannot find anything. the biggest i can find (and im not too sure they are for an a-body) is 12.19". Camaro guys can buy and bolt on 13"+ brakes with 4 and 6 piston calipers...does anyone offer this to us? Im looking to run 13" disk brakes in the front, even if i have to custom make the kit.

If i go the custom route, i think i will be going with wilwood hubs/rotors on stock spindles, and a custom mount for a gen X viper or SRT8 brembo 4 piston calipers. Anyone have any info before i invest too much time on the custom route? Thanks
 
Hey everyone, I tried doing a search and looking on wilwoods site...etc, but cannot find anything. the biggest i can find (and im not too sure they are for an a-body) is 12.19". Camaro guys can buy and bolt on 13"+ brakes with 4 and 6 piston calipers...does anyone offer this to us? Im looking to run 13" disk brakes in the front, even if i have to custom make the kit.

If i go the custom route, i think i will be going with wilwood hubs/rotors on stock spindles, and a custom mount for a gen X viper or SRT8 brembo 4 piston calipers. Anyone have any info before i invest too much time on the custom route? Thanks

http://www.arengineering.com/caliper/viper2/viper_ab13.html

http://www.arengineering.com/caliper/viper/viper13.html
 
I looked into the ARE viper kit also. After alot searching it was the best kit for the money I could find. If you do a search you can find the Multi piston viper calipers on E-bay. Lot cheaper than ARE's. I think on Ebay you could get them packed(all the stuff) for $300 bucks a pair.
I have street wilwoods on the front of my Dart and have Brake fluid boiling issues with the single piston caliper and the smaller disks.I was using Wilwoods HP brake fliud which I found from the spec to be nothing more than reg brake fliud in a Fancy container. Same specs as conventional Autozone brake fluid at twice the price?
Converted to ATE Blue Brake fliud with a wet boiling point 380F -570F dry. Made a BIG DIFFERANCE
 
ABODYJOE
Correct me if I am wrong? I wrestled with spending the $1000 and decided no
The larger diameter disks will not make you stop faster than a smaller diameter disk?
stopping distance is a limitation of tire contact patch and the pavement plus the weight of the vehicle and speed
The Only benifit I could see would be in a road race application your brakes will stay cooler with the larger disks and calipers. Which is critical to repetative braking. You could run bigger tires(more pavement contact) but i can only fit 245/40/17's on the front
I have problems with heat in my present set-up but i was not using real racing brake fluid ATI Blue or Castrol VFR
 
what a larger rotor does is increase the leverage the caliper has on stopping the car...

kinda like trying to remove lug nuts with a ratchet vs 3ft breaker bar...
 
what a larger rotor does is increase the leverage the caliper has on stopping the car

Right but you will not stop faster, Less pedal pressure,maybe more pedal feel, the contact of the tire with the pavement stops the vehicle directly. The pads on the disk indirectly. More tire on the pavement will stop you faster

If you have heavy crappy wheels with a lot rotating momentum then maybe a little differenvce in stopping distance but with light wheels???/....

I think if you compared a drum brake car with a disk brake car and braked each car from 60 mph that thier would not be much difference in stopping distance providing the same parameters. Only the first time,heat will build quicker in a drum brake car and result in brake fade faster than a disk brake car.
 
Thanks everyone for the quick replies. It looks like the biggest issue is going to be the hubs..ill do a bit of research on the diameter of the stock spindles vs mustang II vs...whatever and see what i can find. In the accident i was just in where someone rearended me at 40+ (while i was at 0) i had the stock 11.25" fronts locked up-i knnow bigger brakes wouldnt have helped any for the car in front of me. But i would like to have bigger brakes for the aforementioned benefits, and braking from high speeds/extended use
 
i am running 13" third gen vipers on my duster. i tried to call AR and he kind of pissed me off,said you had to go through a dealer. i called two dealers and got thee run-around for a few weeks and got tired of screwing with them. i called DrDiff and he helped me out big time. i made my own mounts with his drawing,had the calipers off ebay,and i got everything else from him. i am running his cobra mustang kit in the rear and she stops as good as my '07 srt magnum i had. i am going to run about the same setup on my '89 RS camaro.

View attachment 0514111228a.jpg

View attachment 0514111339a.jpg

View attachment 0515111606a.jpg
 
ABODYJOE
Correct me if I am wrong? I wrestled with spending the $1000 and decided no
The larger diameter disks will not make you stop faster than a smaller diameter disk?
stopping distance is a limitation of tire contact patch and the pavement plus the weight of the vehicle and speed
The Only benifit I could see would be in a road race application your brakes will stay cooler with the larger disks and calipers. Which is critical to repetative braking. You could run bigger tires(more pavement contact) but i can only fit 245/40/17's on the front
I have problems with heat in my present set-up but i was not using real racing brake fluid ATI Blue or Castrol VFR


lol. i have to respectfully say,BS. i raced my car with factory disk,drum and there is no comparison whether street or racing.
 
awesome thanks a lot!!! I know the mounts easy to make/design, i wasnt concerned about that, and i know you can get remanned gen 1 viper brakes at local auto shops for $160ish, ive seen other gen viper brakes go for cheap...where did you get the rotors/hubs, off of what vehicle? Thats my confusion atm.
 
ABODYJOE
Correct me if I am wrong? I wrestled with spending the $1000 and decided no
The larger diameter disks will not make you stop faster than a smaller diameter disk?
stopping distance is a limitation of tire contact patch and the pavement plus the weight of the vehicle and speed
The Only benifit I could see would be in a road race application your brakes will stay cooler with the larger disks and calipers. Which is critical to repetative braking. You could run bigger tires(more pavement contact) but i can only fit 245/40/17's on the front
I have problems with heat in my present set-up but i was not using real racing brake fluid ATI Blue or Castrol VFR


i'm not an expert and know very little about it .. with the caliper further out should it have more leverage also?
 
awesome thanks a lot!!! I know the mounts easy to make/design, i wasnt concerned about that, and i know you can get remanned gen 1 viper brakes at local auto shops for $160ish, ive seen other gen viper brakes go for cheap...where did you get the rotors/hubs, off of what vehicle? Thats my confusion atm.

i do tool and die work,so i turned the factory rotors off and used the hub center. crazy what they want for aluminum centers,and lets face it,unless it is a full out race car,the wieght difference is not a big deal.
 
Unless your running a large front racing compound tire like a viper 295/18/30 there is no advantage other than heat disapation which you would only notice on a track vs the street.
I was hoping to learn something here because I could be wrong?
Nobody will debate me with thier hypothesis so maybe you guy's dont know either? (braking advantage in going from a 12 inch rotor to a 13 inch rotor)
I get going to the 13 inch rotors for the COOL FACTOR!!!! Looks COOL
 
Assume that you are applying the same force (A) to the rotor via the pads and the coefficient of friction (B) is the same (Frictional Force = A x B or rather FF= AB). Yes you will be applying that force at a larger distance from the hub (torque= FF x distance from hub or rather T=Fd) but lets consider angular momentum (Angular Momentum = mass x velocity x distance from axis of rotation) into this...the further from the axis of rotation the faster it is moving hence you will have more momentum to overcome. This is especially true when you consider that larger discs have a larger mass as well.

What a bigger disc will do it prevent the brakes from fading during prolonged braking....due to increased heat dissipation.
 
what a larger rotor does is increase the leverage the caliper has on stopping the car

Right but you will not stop faster, Less pedal pressure,maybe more pedal feel, the contact of the tire with the pavement stops the vehicle directly. The pads on the disk indirectly. More tire on the pavement will stop you faster

If you have heavy crappy wheels with a lot rotating momentum then maybe a little differenvce in stopping distance but with light wheels???/....

I think if you compared a drum brake car with a disk brake car and braked each car from 60 mph that thier would not be much difference in stopping distance providing the same parameters. Only the first time,heat will build quicker in a drum brake car and result in brake fade faster than a disk brake car.

The disc size has to do with heat dissipation, what DOES make you stop faster is the increased brake pad contact patch, just like tires the larger the quicker you can slow down. Also as you increase caliper and brake pad size, larger rotors are necessary to accommodate. If your tires are limiting you, you probably should buy better tires. Also by switching to the Viper calipers a wide range of better gripping brake pads become available.
 
The disc size has to do with heat dissipation, what DOES make you stop faster is the increased brake pad contact patch, just like tires the larger the quicker you can slow down. Also as you increase caliper and brake pad size, larger rotors are necessary to accommodate. If your tires are limiting you, you probably should buy better tires. Also by switching to the Viper calipers a wide range of better gripping brake pads become available.

THANK YOU! :cheers:
 
Another thing that makes the bigger brakes an advantage is with the larger rotors and moving the calipers further away from the hub center line is the rotor is moving slower for a given speed. There simply is more leverage and the same caliper gains quite a bit of mechanical advantage going from a 12 to a 14" rotor period. Also anytime you are moving the heat further away from the wheel bearings is good too.
 
what too slow said is true, to a point. the ultimate factor in stopping distance is tire grip. that being said, the way to maximise tire grip during braking is multifold. weight transfer, brake bias, etc all play a factor into this. modulation is also key, which in this discussion is where i will (mostly) stay. with the bigger rotor (all other things being equal), there is better modulation capabilities due to leverage. this is also dependant on brake feel and driver response time (im eliminating ABS as we arent even getting into this). the feel is dependant on the ratios in the caliper bores, and the master sylender, as well as heat dissipation and brake line balooning. the hotter most street pads get, the less they grip. not true when we get into track pads.
so both camps are actually correct. a good driver with skinny, hard tires and smaller rotors can still outbrake a mediocre driver with great tires and pizza sized rotors.

ultimately, i still conclude that the larger rotor and better tire scenario is the way to go, due tpo the best of both worlds.
its been said many times, at may track events, and many autocrosses, that great tires make even a bad car good.

my personal favprite saying is "theres no such thing as too much brake. just not enough tire."

michael
 
Unless your running a large front racing compound tire like a viper 295/18/30 there is no advantage other than heat disapation which you would only notice on a track vs the street.
I was hoping to learn something here because I could be wrong?
Nobody will debate me with thier hypothesis so maybe you guy's dont know either? (braking advantage in going from a 12 inch rotor to a 13 inch rotor)
I get going to the 13 inch rotors for the COOL FACTOR!!!! Looks COOL

But you have a street car and from what you wrote below you had a heat disapation problem. If you were boiling Willwood fluid you were getting the brakes hot.

There are three types of Willwood fluid: http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeFluid/BrakeFluid.aspx This is the higher rated stuff: EXP600 PLUS Brake Fluid
Dry Boiling Point: 626 °F Wet Boiling Point: 417 °F



I looked into the ARE viper kit also. After alot searching it was the best kit for the money I could find. If you do a search you can find the Multi piston viper calipers on E-bay. Lot cheaper than ARE's. I think on Ebay you could get them packed(all the stuff) for $300 bucks a pair.
I have street wilwoods on the front of my Dart and have Brake fluid boiling issues with the single piston caliper and the smaller disks.I was using Wilwoods HP brake fliud which I found from the spec to be nothing more than reg brake fliud in a Fancy container. Same specs as conventional Autozone brake fluid at twice the price?
Converted to ATE Blue Brake fliud with a wet boiling point 380F -570F dry. Made a BIG DIFFERANCE
 
Btw I just checked with Cass today and his SRT rotored 14.25" setup will clear my wheels....which is bitchen,now I need a money tree.
 
Hey can you make me one of those caliper brackets? What source is the rotor?Redrilled vette?Thanks.
 
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