The Mecum Effect...Part of the Problem...or Part of the Solution???

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averagejoesautos

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Hey Guys, figured it post a though provoking post. As some of you may...I spend a majority of my free time searching craigslist, ebay, newspapers, swap meets, newspaper ads, etc for scores on projects and cars parts. As of late, I've been noticing something i coined the "Mecum Effect". We've all see the ad littered with such phrases as...NUMBERS MATCHING...ALL ORIGINAL...FRAME OFF RESTORATION....TRUE SURVIROR. The phrases in and of themselves arent the issue...its the fact that these terms are used on cars that really arent collectables.

Now I'm not trying to start a fight as to which models are collectables and which arent (as that would have to be disected by brand, years, blah blah blah)...but generally speaking, I find that these terms apply *in most cases* to cars such as 57 Bel Air's, GTO's, GTX's, Chevelle SS's, HEMI anything, or R/t anything. In cases such as theses, these are important tid bits as if your searching for these types of cars as you are more and likely looking for original unmolested car (project or completed). When you see an ad for a 1966 Lemans that dosnt run...has half of the front clip disassembled...and has a Chevy 350 in it being advertised as...NUMBERS MATCHING and a TRUE SURVIVOR you kind of wonder...Is this guy freaking serious?? :dontknow: Gets even more confusing when you expect to see a $1,500 or $2,000 asking price and see a $6,000 price tag instead. Thats no diss to the Lemans as i love that car but...when did a $1,500 car become anything else then...a $1,500 car.

The gripe i make is this...since the popularity of these types of shows have grown...I feel that its brought out every would be car enthusiast/collecter with an OLD CAR [regardless of make or model] and given him/her the idea that its a *MECUM CAR*. I cant count how many times i've heard..."Well one sold on [insert your fav auction show here] a few weeks ago for [insert nausiating price here]."...to which I always reply...Maybe you should try selling it on Mecum then :violent1:

Do you guys think that shows like Mecum, Barret Jackson, and Pinks have hurt our hobby...or helped it? I remembers when pinks was all about the weekend racer who built a car with a couple grand, plenty of beer, and a few friends. Now you got a show full of 10 second cars with 50 grand in the motor :wack:

What do you guys think...
 
It does both actually. It hurts because it drives up the price of the car so much that the average joe can't afford to get their hands on a decent car. It helps because all that stupid money brings people (in the aftermarket) out to make the much needed parts for our cars.
 
I think it has more hurt the hobby than helped. After all,the availability of parts for A bodies isnt really that much better,but the prices are certainly idiotic. I call it the middle man effect. Every jack,jim and tom now thinks to buy up all the parts in thier local,which creates an artificial shortage. Then they charge whatever the market will bear and call it reasonable.

Gone are the days where you could buy a parts car for a couple hundred bucks from your buddy out in the country,because Mr.Middleman has already raped the countryside and overpaid for it all,forcing the prices up again.
 
Agree 100% with 1970Duster. More expensive to purchase initially, especially desirable models, but who would have thought that someone would restamp a trunk support, or knockoff an impossible to find trim piece.

Grant
 
Good lawd 70 Duster...that chick in your sig got MEGA JUNK IN DAT TRUNK lol

I hear what your saying though. I just worry that thiers alot of *newbies* trying to get into the hobby who are getting FLEECED [mostly by calculating sellers] and when its all said and done and the fad goes away...thier gonna be left holding the bag. I almost liken it to the mortgage crisis and how most of the people who bought homes pre crisis...owe more on it then the home is worth.

I think it hurts us more because there is no uniformity in prices anymore. You may go to sell your 70 one day and someone may be like I saw one the other day for $1,500 and another for $100,000lol A lot of variables to contend with I know...but, when your trying to price a car fair and correct..sometimes buyers pass yours buy becuase they think the lower price means there is something wrong with it when in fact...your just pricing it fair.
 
Its jacked. Even here I see people saying fair price for a nice car when it needs way more than its worth to even make it just a "driver".Everybody has the mentality that anything not rusted out completely is a savable valuable car. It aint.To me a rusty a body slant car is still a 500 to a thousand dollar car. I am not paying more and it hurts when people not interested in buying post its such a deal when its 3x over priced.
 
These auctions have been driving up prices for many many years. Look at Dean Kruse, the Kruse International and their world wide auctions. There were auctions put on by them all over the country. They teamed up with James Leake for the Tulsa auction and James's head employee was a friend of mine. They had been in the business for over 40 years bringing in foreign buyers and driving the prices though the clouds. I have attended many of their auctions years back and I have seen the games they play. There is some things that I know that I won't put in print so I will just give you some information written by others to read.

Here you can read where it has caught up with them too.
http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2010/01/15/20100115biz-kruse0115.html

Start on page 27 and read backwards.
http://kruseauctionripoff.com/page/27/

Here is another scam that was posted in the newspaper over a $3.1 millon dollar car. http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20091217/LOCAL03/312179976/1039
 
I like the prices of our cars and parts to be fairly high. More incentive for aftermarket vendors to make parts for them and it keeps the parts cars from being crushed for their metal content.
 
This is not new. Barrett Jackson started this many years ago. Everyone now believe they have gold, whether the car is desirable or not.
A guy near me in Central NJ has a 1951 Plymouth for sale for $6,000. The car is solid but needs a total restoration. After the restoration, what would this car be worth?
The dealers and the parts guys should rot with these cars and parts.
 
Gone are the days where you could buy a parts car for a couple hundred bucks from your buddy out in the country,because Mr.Middleman has already raped the countryside and overpaid for it all,forcing the prices up again.

miss those days
 
Yeah, but at least those cars are still around. If those guys didn't overpay and convince the previous owner to sell, those cars would have just rotted into the ground or the local government would have had them towed off and crushed. Prices are a two edged sword. Too cheap and the stuff gets thrown away. Too high and most can't afford to own one. Somewhere in the middle is fine with me.
 
While it's nice that the higher prices have driven manufacturers to make parts for our cars it's not even close to worth it. I would much rather have to scour junkyards and backyards looking for parts to complete a car then be able to put my car together from a catalog and have it worth so much you can't even drive it.

Personally I enjoyed the late 70's to early 80's when working on muscle cars was not socially acceptable and no one gave a nice old Mopar a second glance. Over the years I must have owned at least five different E-bodies. It makes me sick to think I can't afford one now and if I had one I couldn't park it anywhere.
 
The auction scene is a real life game whose rules of play most real people don't know. Not a game for the faint of heart. But then it's entertainment right?
I would rather see my cars donated to a local museum for a tax receipt than send them to any of the circus's.
Seller / buyer beware.

Part of the problem with the collector car market overall.
 
Every backwoods clod thinks they have gold if they have any kind of old Mopar. I just saw an old Fury two or three sittin by a barn which I'm going to stop and ask about. I am pretty sure I'm not the first guy to ask and it's still there. They watch TV and say to themselves I got one of them.
 
Back in the early Barrett Jackson days I saw my neighbor think he had gold because his 1965 Polara Sport had a 440 supposedly installed at Mr. Norm's so it was worth a ton of money. Sorry it is 2011....almost 2012 not 1999. The economy sucks. Nice local cars ain't worth nothing. TV can show what they want and high rollers can pay what they want but the world is coming back into sanity. I sat there watching it go through the roof in the early 2000's but supply and demand has made it come back down some. My 68 formula S might not be worth a million dollars but I don't care...I am looking for another A body or two before I am in the ground. I just don't want to pay a bunch of cash for them.
 
now days these people that have old early 70s 4 doors and the like (no offense) and watch these auctions have a firm belief that their rusted hulk of a mopar is now worth upwards of 5 Gs or better. gone are the days when we were hot rodding our beloved mopars regardless of what it may be worth,(i still dont care) but we did it because they are fast and damn good looking doing it. while the spotlight on the rare hemi and six pack cars has brought the prices of just about every 60s and 70s chrysler products through the roof,prices have actually dropped in recent years, it has also had a domino effect in that these guys who watch the bidding and feed the frenzy,pay people to run the country side picking up every 68 charger they can get their hands on and dump a grip of cash in them and try to triple their money, and in turn ,dissing out the average guy who wants to build up a mopar, and cant find cars or parts for decent money. it seems everyone has gone on a buying binge and a part out frenzy at the same time. i think when the dust settles, the prices will level out on parts and 6 cylinder cars and the more desirable cars will still maintain their value. i know if it were not for guys parting cars out,i wouldnt have what i need for my duster.i see no benefit of running up prices, its only to profit off of those who will pay big money. hey, if they want to pay 4000 bucks for a 71 duster 225/6 car that is rusted into the ground ,have at it, it doesnt mean the rusted out 71 down the block is worth 4000, it means the guy wanted it that bad.
 
I love watching the shows, but it is really more entertainment than reality. Have worked a few Mecum auctions and seen the disappointment in the old guys face when the car didn't bring what they thought and the joy in the other when they got much more than they figured they would

Most people that see the cars go across don't figure in the cost to run the car across on TV time.

Most the cars are trucked in to the auction $$$, the owner spends the time to travel to the auction and stay anywhere from 2 to 6 days there, $$$$, pay the fees to run it, even when it runs changes the cost, $$$$$, then the fees even when it sells, $$$$$$$$

so the owner is out a lot of money to get his cars on the auction block on TV and that has to be figured into the cost of the vehicle.

Joe smoe that is trying to sell the same car in his front yard thinks. Well BJ sold one just like it for XXXX last week, it just needs a little tlc (1/4s paint int) to look just like that one, but he wants the same money.

That hurts the guy trying to get into the hobby

But as others have said, the cars that are now listed as collector cars you can buy parts for.

I sold my 1971 Curious Yellow 'Cuda Convertible in the late 80's that needed restored thinking you could not get some of the parts I needed. fast forward a few years and you can build the whole damn car out of books or internet.

Now my 67 dart convertible there are many parts available and more every day due to the fact they finally got some respect and are now collectable

Is it good for the HOBBY? just depends on which side of the sword you get hit with
 
Hey with all said does anyone know how I can change my chunk of coal into a diamond ????
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I thought my boat gobbled money. LOL
Moe
 
Hey Guys, figured it post a though provoking post. As some of you may...I spend a majority of my free time searching craigslist, ebay, newspapers, swap meets, newspaper ads, etc for scores on projects and cars parts. As of late, I've been noticing something i coined the "Mecum Effect". We've all see the ad littered with such phrases as...NUMBERS MATCHING...ALL ORIGINAL...FRAME OFF RESTORATION....TRUE SURVIROR. The phrases in and of themselves arent the issue...its the fact that these terms are used on cars that really arent collectables.

I agree with you and I spend a considerable amount of time cruising Craigslist etc. daily too! I mostly like to see what the price trends are or to look for screaming deals on project cars. There are some KILLER deals out there right now! But yes, those people or companies who are trying to whip up enthusiasm for their "ultra-rare 4 door with a 6 cylinder/2-speed automatic and aftermarket A/C" are just sheisters just like have always been around. People who actually know their stuff can easily find excellent deals in this market and I think that Barrett-Jackson effect has reversed.

Maybe not for older retired people with money burning a hole in their pocket though. Don't forget.....Craigslist is a free ad which is almost like being able to gamble for free. You might find some unsuspecting sucker to buy this stuff , thinking it's going to go up in value later on.
 
If you are selling the "mecum effect" could work to your advantage, by making the buyer feel that they are getting a bargain, when in fact you are selling at what is the going price. "only $7,000, similar cars have sold on Barret Jackson for $30,000." It would not be lying, they are similar, same year, make, model, just that the barret jackson car has a ground up resto that costs more than the $7,000 price tag of the other car.
 
I have a 1971 383 4 speed Dodge Challenger Convertible(originally came with the fresh air system ) which i have owned for about 20 years. I saw one that sold on Mecum for 199,000.00 which was not even an original fresh air system car, are people nuts? My car has value to me but who would expect prices like that.
 
It has to be a racket, they don't sell for that anymore; it was like the housing bubble. The price was high, some people thought they had retirement $ in something they enjoyed. Bottom fell out with the economy, a lot of people had to sell cheap, just to take care of the family.

It sucks, but it did bring out AMD, etc, to re pop good parts. Still the same on everything else; cams, lifters, etc all chinese no quality bs, over-priced.
went thru Fed/Mog, Clevite lifters, until got a set that actually worked.

I dunno, as far as helping, you can get parts. Laid off, spent last year helping restore a 69 Charger; it would take 8 hours to go thru the receipts and add up how many parts went back.

The auctions helped to get Mopar back in the public awareness (nascar and nhra killed it, with the handicapping bs), but made a bubble.

Like a young guy that saw my 340 block, steel crank and x heads, How much? 1000, I only have $700, I wouldn't sell it to him. Machine work, rods , pistons, cam ,etc= he would have over $2500, just in a short block, that he couldn't afford.

I think 50/50 on helping us. But, at times it is worth it. My buddy with the 69, driving around, thumbs up, kids hanging out of schoolbus windows, even 70 yo ladies gawking... One woman asked me how much $ was in it; I told her he could have bought an acre, and a doublewide, and rented it out for less. And got a better return.

It helped, and hurt the mopar crowd.
 
The other trend out there is flippers. Any half good deal will be scooped up immediately and flipped. There are tons of people out there with trucks, trailers, and cash ready to pounce. These are screwed people working hard and makeing some good money at the expense of the hobiest. You think your gonna find that bargain basement deal on your dream car? You better be there that day with cash in hand or you won't get the deal; the flippers will beat you to it every time. I know a guy like that, he sees a deal out there and he is there that day, buys it, and the ad gets pulled and most people never even knew the ad was there. Then he makes a couple grand on the flip. These flippers are smart and fast, buying cheap and selling high.
 
^^^^^ that would be me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO NOT HATE THE PLAYER!, HATE THE GAME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if i did not do it, there would be someone right behind me!. and i am entitled to do anything that is lawful to feed and water my seed!
 
As far as being able to drive the countryside and find a car for a couple hundred get with the times guys. These cars are now getting close to 50 years old and not 15 years old like those days. Scrap was driven so high that it will crush for almost 500 dollars which cleaned the countryside in itself by non-Mopar guys. Gas is no longer 90 cents a gallon and neither are the cars.
 
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