do chains really stretch?

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i can still remember that one BB nylon(?) coated cam sprocket that came apart and pieces of the nylon(?) made their way into my pan and got sucked into the oil pickup ,clogged it , lost oil pressure and melted my crank bearings into puddles in the bottom of the oil pan. what were THEY thinking lol
 
Stock hivo chains do a bit, oem on my 2003 dakota 3.9 lasted 180k, replaced both chain and tensioner, lasted 2 weeks, tensioner slipped off the ramp and put the chain against the oil tab of the retainer plate. Replaced both, lasted 10k, heard the same bizarre sound again and found the new tensioner to be forcing the chain against the oil tab. Replaced with a CAT gear drive, wasn't clearance right, top sprocket was grinding into the retainer plate, needed to be counter sunk or make a shim between sprocket and cam. Replaced with Cloyes double roller and no tensioner. 193k and no noise, mileage is back around 21mpg.
 

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The tensioners looked good to me when Shady dell introduced them to me with a roll master. 14 pulls on a dyno and the tensioner was at its almost at its limit. They bought me every thing new when the motor left go. HTA machine would not use the chain or tensioner they bought. He ordered a custom length true roller chain. The tensioner that you are all describing was not design for a roller. A tight roller will wear real fast. a properly installed correct length true roller chain usually does not get alot of slack after use. I will be pulling my motor apart shortly to install a billet cover. We will see how loose the chain is . High seat pressure and sees 9000. I will take some pics when its apart.
 
I plan on replacing the timing set in the 60k mile crate engine I bought last weekend with this...

Cloyes link

My buddy doesn't think I should need to, but to me, it's cheap insurance on an unknown engine. The same guy bought a 68 Satellite w/ a 318 once, and the first time he stepped on it, the chain jumped and we had to tow it home...
 
This is the voice of experience folks. Read it well cause he's right on the money.....as usual I might add. BUT I will add this. A cheap *** split roller chain will stretch even if it installs a little loose. Because the split rollers collapse almost immediately. That equals a stretched chain because the rollers are squished into a smaller diameter than they were and it happens literally the first time you spin the engine over with a cheap chain. If you make sure you use a solid true roller, with at least .250 roller pins, that will help. Also too, the tensioner itself can be "cheated" a little by loosening the mounting bolts and moving the entire thing around a little, should you run out of tensioning room. Lastly, you need to make damn sure that you use the hold down bolt with the hole through it, or drill one yourself and install it in the hole on the passenger side that's at the bottom of the lifter valley, so the chain and gears and tensioner will get proper lubrication. That's right. If the tensioner itself doesn't get lubricated well, it WILL burn up. The polymer coating ain't indestructible, but it is pretty tough. It cannot however, stand to run without the cooling and lubrication of engine oil. I reckon the concensus seems to be IF you're gonna use a chain, don't get the cheapest one.


Oldmanmopar said:
The tensioners looked good to me when Shady dell introduced them to me with a roll master. 14 pulls on a dyno and the tensioner was at its almost at its limit. They bought me every thing new when the motor left go. HTA machine would not use the chain or tensioner they bought. He ordered a custom length true roller chain. The tensioner that you are all describing was not design for a roller. A tight roller will wear real fast. a properly installed correct length true roller chain usually does not get alot of slack after use. I will be pulling my motor apart shortly to install a billet cover. We will see how loose the chain is . High seat pressure and sees 9000. I will take some pics when its apart.
Click to expand...
 
BrianT said:
I plan on replacing the timing set in the 60k mile crate engine I bought last weekend with this...

Cloyes link

My buddy doesn't think I should need to, but to me, it's cheap insurance on an unknown engine.
Click to expand...

That's a LOT more chain for the money. Those are the ones I use. They are gooduns.
 
I've been running the SUmmit billet sets and a tensioner for about 4 years now. No issues noted on engines with up to 15K miles. But these are street engines first, racey engines second. Flat tappets mostly, and fairly mild spring pressures.
 
moper said:
I've been running the SUmmit billet sets and a tensioner for about 4 years now. No issues noted on engines with up to 15K miles. But these are street engines first, racey engines second. Flat tappets mostly, and fairly mild spring pressures.
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I wonder who makes those. Did they come in generic boxes? Dynagear maybe? You know Cloyes bought out Dynagear a while back.
 
I'm not sure who makes them... They seem to be decent, and true roller, and the price is decent. The first one I used is with a Comp solid street roller and is daily driven in CA. It's got the 15K on it and so far so good. The owner is a big PSCA racer (Fords making four figures of power) and I'm certain he'd mention any issues that turned up or he discovered. I also did an RB stroker for his brother and althought it's much less miles, no issues.
I want to say the best chain is from Austrailia but the name escapes me...
 
I want to say the best chain is from Austrailia but the name escapes me...
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Hi Dave - That would be the 9 keyway Rollmaster.

Here's the reason -

Bob Bracken who originally owned ROMAC (Rollmaster) secured the sole aftermarket rights to the IWIS chain .

IWIS are a German maker and they are used by BMW and Mercedes.

Bob only used the IWIS on the 9 keyway piece - not the old 3 keyway which is no longer made.

He even went to the extent of building a chain tester - His company rep. got that good other chain makers would send him their product for testing (mainly Indian and Chinese companies) He reckoned most broke at HALF the testing strength of the IWIS chain.

Rollmaster has since been sold - but I intend on finding out f they still have exclusive rights.

Interesting fact - IWIS have tried to break the contract with Rollmaster many times so they can sell to other aftermarket t/c companies.

Sorry for the lecture -but its useful info.
 
Rat Patrol said:
Hi Dave - That would be the 9 keyway Rollmaster.

Here's the reason -

Bob McNamara who originally owned Rollmaster secured the sole aftermarket rights to the IWIS chain .

IWIS are a German maker and they are used by BMW and Mercedes.

Bob only used the IWIS on the 9 keyway piece - not the 3 keyway.

He even went to the extent of building a chain tester - His company rep. got that good other chain makers would send him their product for testing (mainly Indian and Chinese companies) He reckoned most broke at HALF the testing strength of the IWIS chain.

Rollmaster has since been sold - but I intend on finding out f they still have exclusive rights.

Interesting fact - IWIS have tried to break the contract with Rollmaster many times so they can sell to other aftermarket t/c companies.

Sorry for the lecture -but its useful info.
Click to expand...


Dang, only have the 3 keyway piece...:eek:ops:
 
I just called them - the 3 Keyway is still made but as I said its an Indian "Roll-on" chain - sorry for the bad news. :O

They still have sole rights to the IWIS "endless" chain - their website has all their products - US and Aussie catalogues.

http://www.romac.com.au/TCS.html
 
73AbodEE said:
i can still remember that one BB nylon(?) coated cam sprocket that came apart and pieces of the nylon(?) made their way into my pan and got sucked into the oil pickup ,clogged it , lost oil pressure and melted my crank bearings into puddles in the bottom of the oil pan. what were THEY thinking lol
Click to expand...

The 318 core engine I bought for my build had NO nylon teeth left on the cam gear. All down in the oil pan. Nice little valve marks on all the pistons and you could see where the chain was rubbing on the timing cover inside. Crazy!
 
Oldmanmopar said:
... The tensioner that you are all describing was not design for a roller. ...
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Yep! that's what I was asking some posts ago. Does Cloyes make a tensioner for a double roller? I still think a tensioner is better than nothing. both 273 and 318 I broke down had more than an inch deflection, and none had a nylon cog. Truck 360 double roller looked as bad. Ill still look for a CAT GD-318 gear, mods needed or not. Sold 2 Milodons..should have kept one...
 
BrianT said:
I plan on replacing the timing set in the 60k mile crate engine I bought last weekend with this...

Cloyes link

My buddy doesn't think I should need to, but to me, it's cheap insurance on an unknown engine. The same guy bought a 68 Satellite w/ a 318 once, and the first time he stepped on it, the chain jumped and we had to tow it home...
Click to expand...

Perfect timing on this thread (pun intended) :D
I'll be changing my order from a Comp unit to a Cloyes for my Magnum 5.9 build.
 
Just get a Cloyes true roller--not the street units but race, there about $120 from Summit.

No need for a tensioner. just something to wear and get in to the oil.

Factory uses it cause their engines had to pass smog for 100,000 miles and they don't spin 3,500 on the freeways
 
I pulled my true roller out after 10,000 miles and it still was tight

Even when they stretch a bit, no real harm is done by it. 2 degrees retard you are not going to feel, IMO

By the time a good chain is worn out, so are the rings, bearings, cam, etc
 
Here's my JP Performance True Roller chain after 18 mths - valve spring pressures were 125/325......

2012-03-14185555.jpg


I'm using a Rollmaster red series and a tensioner next build........
 
autoxcuda said:
Chrysler small block has one of the the longest cam to crank centerlines of production V-8's. That why they tend to get looser faster than other V-8's.

I ran a MP timing chain tensioner with my Rollmaster timing chain. We found it changed the cam timing one whole degree! All parts brand new.
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Hence how we can comfortably run a 4'' + stroke crank and not take out the cam or have to cut the counter weights down 1''...lol

JP PERFORMANCE is what i use for chain/gear sets.
The chain is a 'Roll On' brand made in japan if i remember correct and the gears billet from? but its sold under an australian company name.fwiw
I have used the mancini set as well, it 'I believe' ALSO has a 'Roll On' brand chain
I have never seen a chain that said rollmaster on it, only heard about it..
 
Rat Patrol said:
Here's my JP Performance True Roller chain after 18 mths - valve spring pressures were 125/325......

2012-03-14185555.jpg


I'm using a Rollmaster red series and a tensioner next build........
Click to expand...

WOW, i have 2 builds on my JP set and maybe a 1/4 of slack, my springs are set @ 140psi seat, with 340 open...i rev the motor up 6800 routinely.

Somethings is wrong with what ur showing us.
Is that chain really from that block?
No cam plate, did also have a tensioner?
Just curious cause i have never seen a JP do that before and i have used quite a few ..
 
krazykuda said:
Chains do stretch. That is why they recommend replacing them when there is over 1/2" of play.

Tensioners - I believe that they came on some of the truck engines sometime in the late 80's or early 90's. HemiEd would be a better guy to ask that question. He had a 91 360 that he sold us that had a tensioner on it. I'm not sure if it originally came on our engine or he put it on from another one.
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Actually Karl, I put it on from recommendations from posters on this site. Never too old to learn!:cheers:
I didn't believe in them before, and thought they were just a band-aid for 3.9s

The odd part about that motor to me, is that it came with a windage tray, stock. It was out of a low mile city truck.
 
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