Upper Control Arm Offset Bushings Gap Question

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Judge Mills

1971 Plymouth Duster
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I just installed Raybestos offset bushings in my upper control arms. They are nearly identical to the infamous Moog offset bushings, are approximately the same price, and were purchased over the Moog's only because of availability.

Anyway, there seems to be an approximately 1/8" gap or so between the mounting tabs (if that's the proper term) when I placed them for installation. Is there a washer or spacer I should be using? I notice both the Moog and Raybestos neither have the metal on the outside of the bushing, like the stock replacements to. Any advice would be appreciated!
 
The moog off set bushings I just pressed in my upper a arm had a steel washer that I had to actually press in after installing the bushing. Without them the bushings would have been loose on the cam bolts.
 
Does this help?

Reads 1.885"
 

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Oh dang, thanks autoxcuda! These new ones are a tad shorter. Should I shim it up some how?

Zhandfull, these raybestos did not come with anything else.

I will try to post a picture tonight.
 
Even better than a picture, here is a youtube video!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7T5RJFcPcY"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]
 
I would just make sure the bushings inside diameter is properly sized to the cam bolts. If they are good just shim it with a fender washer or two. If loose you may be missing the special washers that I received with my moog bushings.
 
Well, the cam bolt wiggles inside the bushing, meaning it really needs those steel washers like the Moog units have. So now I guess I will e-mail Raybestos and see if they were shipped without them, or if they never included them in the first place. I tried cutting an old bushing to see if I could use that as a steel washer, but I think they are pressed in, meaning they are swollen. Just my luck with this car! I swear I have had to buy every part twice, or have had to modify it.
 
Thanks for the picture! I wish I would have spent the extra couple bucks and had the patience to wait a few more days and ordered the Moog's.
 
Judge Mills said:
Thanks for the picture! I wish I would have spent the extra couple bucks and had the patience to wait a few more days and ordered the Moog's.
Click to expand...

That may not make a difference. I have 2 sets of Moog offset bushings. One has the 4 end caps in the box, the other does not. I havent found a way to contact Moog either. Good luck
 
RedFish said:
That may not make a difference. I have 2 sets of Moog offset bushings. One has the 4 end caps in the box, the other does not. I havent found a way to contact Moog either. Good luck
Click to expand...

That is crazy! I haven't heard back from Raybestos, but it has only been a day. Are you going to buy some fender washers and try it that way?
 
the fender washers are a bad idea. you need the correct spacer that goes with the bushings. they slide inside the cam bolt hole and make the cam bolt tight inside the bushing. if you dont use them then your upper control arm will wobble around on the cam bolts. this will make it impossible to align correctly. it will also eventually wear enough on the cam bolts and they will fail. when they fail you will have no attachment point on the upper control arm and you will loose control of the vehicle. i would go to the store that you bought the bushings from and show them whats up. maybe they have another set on the shelf that have the correct spacer washers? if not then i would push them back out and return them as faulty parts and order the moogs from summit or jegs.
 
Yep, I should make another video. There is too much wobble. Unfortunately, I ordered them from Amazon last month, and already threw away the packing slip. I will see what Raybestos says and go from there!
 
younggun2.0 said:
the fender washers are a bad idea. you need the correct spacer that goes with the bushings. they slide inside the cam bolt hole and make the cam bolt tight inside the bushing. if you dont use them then your upper control arm will wobble around on the cam bolts. this will make it impossible to align correctly. it will also eventually wear enough on the cam bolts and they will fail. when they fail you will have no attachment point on the upper control arm and you will loose control of the vehicle. i would go to the store that you bought the bushings from and show them whats up. maybe they have another set on the shelf that have the correct spacer washers? if not then i would push them back out and return them as faulty parts and order the moogs from summit or jegs.
Click to expand...

I second this.
 
Moe: I might have to take you up on that.,I will let you know.


This is what Raybestos wrote me today: These parts are all rubber. I do not have one with a steel clad on the outside.

So now what?
 
Judge Mills said:
Moe: I might have to take you up on that.,I will let you know.


This is what Raybestos wrote me today: These parts are all rubber. I do not have one with a steel clad on the outside.

So now what?
Click to expand...

I would ask why the cam bolts are excessively loose when installed through the bushings. Tell them that the worn out bushing would hold an alignment better than the new Raybestos you have.

And when you copied the Moog bushings you forgot to copy their washers that insert in the ends of the busings.
 
well at this point i think i would try to get my money back from amazon. summit and jegs has them for 45 bucks. may take another day or two but at least you will have the correct part.
 
I wrote back this : So does this mean I am assured the part will work correctly? Or that I need to purchase these parts separately? Thank you.

They wrote back:If this part came with metal clad on the outside I would replace it with the same.

I think Raybestos has lost my business. This is a really weak correspondence they are having with me.
 
After thinking about it for a while, I'm giving them one last shot. Here is what I just wrote them:

Jeff,

No other bushing on the market currently features a non-steel cladding on the bushing for this particular model of car. With the way the Raybestos bushing is, the caster/camber bolt wobbles inside of the bushing, and the upper control arm rocks back and forth. Attached is a youtube video of how much room this control arm has. I can also make a video of the wobble the bolt makes inside the bushing if requested.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7T5RJFcPcY"]Plymouth Duster Upper Control Arm Bushing Wiggle - YouTube[/ame]

This control arm should have no wiggle room. It appears the Raybestos design mirrors the Moog design in every single way, except lacking the "steel cladding". Please refer to this link from Rock Auto to see the "iron cladding" that Moog offers with their bushing.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=203130

I am requesting this correspondence be forwarded to your supervisor and/or engineering department. Thank you.
 
Hi Judge, I took a couple pics of one I had fall apart so you can see the end caps. The caps have a smaller inner diameter to snug the bolt. Without it, there would be wiggle.

37E91188-F142-4661-91FD-1FAD10C1CCF5-2480-000003706E16892F_zps5b4afd01.jpg

543FE932-88F7-4E97-8E00-8EC6B386BED6-2480-00000370785E5C66_zpsa689ed72.jpg
 
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