easy way to tell if i got a solid cam or hydraulic?

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I hope you marked all the lifters so you know what holes to put them in

I'd start with simple .020 on every valve.

(Why is it you don't know this -- you never did answer that question?)

Use the EOIC method

This means that when ane EXAUST starts to OPEN you set the INTAKE valve lash

When the INTAKE has opened and is ALMOST CLOSED you set the EXHAUST lash

This method works for any engine, no matter what the overlap or centerline, and insures that as you set a valve, it is on the "base circle" of the lobe.
 
cause i have heard different lash, from different people. then, i was told 1/4 turn, but that does not work.
 
Yup, I would say those are solid lifters. Oil metering solid lifters have an oiling hole, so you really caint always tell that way, either. lol Best thing to do if you really wanna nail it down is take one apart. No preload spring = solid lifter.
 
That's what I suspected. Glad you didn't jump over the cliff. lol
 
Remember too, you probably need to check and or adjust the other tune up adjustmenst as well. Timing, carburetor and all that hooah.
 
ok, i adjusted the intake to .016, and the exaust to .018, and purrs like a kitten with out all the clatter.


thanks guys
 
Glad we learned something, snap rings do not equate 100% to hydros. Had me too.
 
Yeah, I bought the motor and, despite Joe telling me not to touch it and that everything was all set, I started checking tolerances. Decided the engine probably needed the valve lash (or preload) set... that sent me down this exact path, doing exactly what Joe did. Only later did I find this article lol.

I checked it today so that I could re-check the valve lash after a few 6K rpm pulls. Only one was noticeably off, which explained the ticking. Otherwise, everything was perfect.

Man... does this motor screw. I've never driven anything like it in my life.

Very glad I didn't send a piston into a valve by setting preload... luck strikes again.
Thanks all.

-Mike
 
A lot of lighterweight solids have that snap ring - but no travel because the pushrod seat is a plug... not a plunger...
 
How loud is the "clatter"? My solid cam and lifters @.014 sounds like a type writer. Always has.
b8b1f502-1.jpg


Here's what my lifters look like for reference:
d90606a7.jpg
 
every m.p. solid cam kit i have installed have had the exact same lifters with the yellow tops... that tells me you probably have a purple shaft cam and the lash should be .028 intake and .032 exhaust (HOT)... just thought i'd throw that in...
 
Food for thought regarding lash... Less is not always more!!! Running the lash significantly tighter than the recommended setting can cause problems. First, metal expands when heated and parts like valves tend to "grow" when the get hot, especially at full throttle. I have always preferred to set mechanical valve trains "hot". That is, with the engine up to operating temperature, for a more accurate setting. This is while "cold" settings tend to be looser by a couple thousandths. Even so, the lash will tighten when the engine is running. Second, the valve train must go slack, or unload each cycle. This is important for oiling and cooling. The lifter pressure must release to allow a fresh film of oil between the lifter face and cam lobe. The lower anti-scuff additive (zddp) levels in current oils make them less forgiving of hard metal-to-metal contact, so it's best to ensure the oil film is maintained. Also, while the valve stem has a big spring to act as a radiator, the valve head relies on seat contact for cooling. That 400 degree exhaust valve doesn't have a lot of time to dump heat into the 200 degree head at high RPM, so positive contact is crucial.

In a worse case scenario, too tight lash will cause the valve train to "go solid" and prevent the valve from closing all the way. While the compression loss will cost some power, the big worry is valve overheating. The valve gets hot, expands, and loses seat contact causing the valve to get hotter, expand more, and lose more seat contact. Hot exhaust gasses passing by on the seat will cause this to snowball. If the valve gets too hot it may overheat and be damaged by warping. If the stem overheats and sticks in the guide, piston contact will really warp (bend) the valve causing permanent damage.

Some will claim that lash can be used as a "tuning" tool. Sure, increasing or decreasing the lash will reduce or increase effective duration, if only slightly. It's no way to make one cam act like another. The bigger picture is to make sure there is adequate lash to prevent valve float at high RPM. The cam grinder will give a conservative lash recommendation to prevent this. Can you run tighter lash? Depending on spring pressure, valve train weight and flex, RPM and other things, probably. That's what "test and tune" runs are for.

Noise is a fact of life with mechanical cams. Aluminum valve covers will block it some, but don't risk the health of the engine to make it "quiet". Any hot rodder who knows anything will respect the even ticking of a well adjusted mechanical. And we all know chicks dig a nice solid stick, so don't pass on a chance to show off old school.
 
Noise is a fact of life with mechanical cams. Aluminum valve covers will block it some, but don't risk the health of the engine to make it "quiet". Any hot rodder who knows anything will respect the even ticking of a well adjusted mechanical. And we all know chicks dig a nice solid stick, so don't pass on a chance to show off old school.

so true! i love the sound of a solid flat tappet cam! thats all i run...
 
every m.p. solid cam kit i have installed have had the exact same lifters with the yellow tops... that tells me you probably have a purple shaft cam and the lash should be .028 intake and .032 exhaust... just thought i'd throw that in...

Unfortunately, I have no idea what cam/lifters are in the motor since it was assembled when I bought it. I know that when I adjusted the valves a couple of days ago, the driver's side cylinder head was making a loud ticking noise. I had a few car buddies (who have solid cams) listen to it and they said that it definitely wasn't right (too loud of a tick). I pulled the valve covers and checked the lash per the manual, and one of the adjusters had backed out (#3, exhaust) and the lash was about 0.026". I adjusted it back to 0.018" and it sounded perfect. I know that it is not right to tune a car by sound, but I would rather go with my instincts here since I don't know what parts are actually in the motor.

With the motor at ~1,200 RPM, it sounds exactly like a sewing machine, which I've been told is the sound to look for with a properly set valve lash on a mechanical cam setup.

Food for thought regarding lash... Less is not always more!!! Running the lash significantly tighter than the recommended setting can cause problems. First, metal expands when heated and parts like valves tend to "grow" when the get hot, especially at full throttle. I have always preferred to set mechanical valve trains "hot". That is, with the engine up to operating temperature, for a more accurate setting. This is while "cold" settings tend to be looser by a couple thousandths. Even so, the lash will tighten when the engine is running. Second, the valve train must go slack, or unload each cycle. This is important for oiling and cooling. The lifter pressure must release to allow a fresh film of oil between the lifter face and cam lobe. The lower anti-scuff additive (zddp) levels in current oils make them less forgiving of hard metal-to-metal contact, so it's best to ensure the oil film is maintained. Also, while the valve stem has a big spring to act as a radiator, the valve head relies on seat contact for cooling. That 400 degree exhaust valve doesn't have a lot of time to dump heat into the 200 degree head at high RPM, so positive contact is crucial.

In a worse case scenario, too tight lash will cause the valve train to "go solid" and prevent the valve from closing all the way. While the compression loss will cost some power, the big worry is valve overheating. The valve gets hot, expands, and loses seat contact causing the valve to get hotter, expand more, and lose more seat contact. Hot exhaust gasses passing by on the seat will cause this to snowball. If the valve gets too hot it may overheat and be damaged by warping. If the stem overheats and sticks in the guide, piston contact will really warp (bend) the valve causing permanent damage.

Some will claim that lash can be used as a "tuning" tool. Sure, increasing or decreasing the lash will reduce or increase effective duration, if only slightly. It's no way to make one cam act like another. The bigger picture is to make sure there is adequate lash to prevent valve float at high RPM. The cam grinder will give a conservative lash recommendation to prevent this. Can you run tighter lash? Depending on spring pressure, valve train weight and flex, RPM and other things, probably. That's what "test and tune" runs are for.

Noise is a fact of life with mechanical cams. Aluminum valve covers will block it some, but don't risk the health of the engine to make it "quiet". Any hot rodder who knows anything will respect the even ticking of a well adjusted mechanical. And we all know chicks dig a nice solid stick, so don't pass on a chance to show off old school.

You definitely made a lot of good points here. I did check/set the valve lash cold, but I made sure that all of the rocker arms fully released from the valve stems to allow oil on them. I've also run the motor with the valve covers off an verified that oil is making its way to all of the valves stems.

As mentioned above, I am checking my results mostly based on sound (unfortunately). The motors still clicks noticeably when cold, but when fully heated up (and after a few 6K RPM pulls) the motor sounds like a typewriter/sewing machine.

I think I am on the right track, but I will definitely be keeping a close eye on the rocker arms/valve lash. Overall though, I think my next step is a rev limiter. This thing winds up FAST lol

-Mike
 
Unfortunately, I have no idea what cam/lifters are in the motor since it was assembled when I bought it. I know that when I adjusted the valves a couple of days ago, the driver's side cylinder head was making a loud ticking noise. I had a few car buddies (who have solid cams) listen to it and they said that it definitely wasn't right (too loud of a tick). I pulled the valve covers and checked the lash per the manual, and one of the adjusters had backed out (#3, exhaust) and the lash was about 0.026". I adjusted it back to 0.018" and it sounded perfect. I know that it is not right to tune a car by sound, but I would rather go with my instincts here since I don't know what parts are actually in the motor.

With the motor at ~1,200 RPM, it sounds exactly like a sewing machine, which I've been told is the sound to look for with a properly set valve lash on a mechanical cam setup.



if the lash keeps getting big on that rocker, chances are the lifter and or cam lobe could be getting wiped out... if you lash gets tight, the valve could be sinking into their seats... just food for thought. make sure your running oil with ZINK in it!
 
You running stock replacement solid lifters,Bad? Stuffed a solid grind,in a 318 earlier.Ordered o.e.replacement lifters from Herbert's.Sent me the old 273 style barbells,just a machined piece of cast iron.
 
Unfortunately, I have no idea what cam/lifters are in the motor since it was assembled when I bought it. I know that when I adjusted the valves a couple of days ago, the driver's side cylinder head was making a loud ticking noise. I had a few car buddies (who have solid cams) listen to it and they said that it definitely wasn't right (too loud of a tick). I pulled the valve covers and checked the lash per the manual, and one of the adjusters had backed out (#3, exhaust) and the lash was about 0.026". I adjusted it back to 0.018" and it sounded perfect. I know that it is not right to tune a car by sound, but I would rather go with my instincts here since I don't know what parts are actually in the motor.

With the motor at ~1,200 RPM, it sounds exactly like a sewing machine, which I've been told is the sound to look for with a properly set valve lash on a mechanical cam setup.



if the lash keeps getting big on that rocker, chances are the lifter and or cam lobe could be getting wiped out... if you lash gets tight, the valve could be sinking into their seats... just food for thought. make sure your running oil with ZINK in it!


I'll definitely keep an eye out for that lifter. Worst case scenario, I have to put a cam and set of new lifters in. Still not a bad deal for the bottom end that's in it.

And I am running 10w-30 Valvoline VR-1 Race oil, which has the ZDDP rating. I believe there should be enough Zinc in it. Does anybody here run a Zinc additive in addition to oils with a ZDDP rating?
 
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