SCCA Prepared C FABO Build

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A guy you need to talk with is Steve Wall. I think he's member here however he lurks over at the Moparts site. Very knowledgeable regarding autox and road racing. His e-mail is pwall5@aol.com. He goes by autoxcuda on Moparts and I belive the same for this site as well. Good guy.
 
Badart said:
I installed the coilover hoops when I thought it was going to be a street car. For the time being I will leave them in, but may cut them out later, because the cage will tie into the upper shock mounts.
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Even if you run J bars tying to the cage to shock towers, I would keep your coilover hoops and support bar. Your design of those is a thing of beauty, and secondly, you will have no doubt of front subframe integrity. Besides, those hoops have Badart written all over them. : ) I'm looking forward to your thread.
 
Cool build!! I am running an E body with all the goodies in SCCA. Wish it was easier to upload pics here. URL? who knows, I dont, but looking forward to reading more posts!!
 
Hey Bad, check into a metal fuel cell with rollover check valves. For what you're doing they might be a better choice. It'll impress the tech guy too. A circle track outfit like Speedway has them in various sizes and dimensions.

Looks like a fun project,ya got me thinking........\\:D/
 
Subscribed. Now get to work!
Kidding, I can't wait to see this come together.
 
dart4forte said:
A guy you need to talk with is Steve Wall. I think he's member here however he lurks over at the Moparts site. Very knowledgeable regarding autox and road racing. His e-mail is pwall5@aol.com. He goes by autoxcuda on Moparts and I belive the same for this site as well. Good guy.
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I have talked to Steve a couple of times. One time was in person at the MATS last year about the car. He gave me a couple of good ideas about the car.

DC 340 said:
Even if you run J bars tying to the cage to shock towers, I would keep your coilover hoops and support bar. Your design of those is a thing of beauty, and secondly, you will have no doubt of front subframe integrity. Besides, those hoops have Badart written all over them. : ) I'm looking forward to your thread.
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Wow, thanks.

tooslow said:
Cool build!! I am running an E body with all the goodies in SCCA. Wish it was easier to upload pics here. URL? who knows, I dont, but looking forward to reading more posts!!
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Are you running in CP? I would love to see pics. There is a sticky here about uploading pics.

Dago Red said:
Hey Bad, check into a metal fuel cell with rollover check valves. For what you're doing they might be a better choice. It'll impress the tech guy too. A circle track outfit like Speedway has them in various sizes and dimensions.

Looks like a fun project,ya got me thinking........\\:D/
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I would love to buy a better cell, but this is kind of a budget build right now, if you want to call it that. This cell is super cheap, light and I will be adding foam if I have to. Thanks

Revhendo said:
Subscribed. Now get to work!
Kidding, I can't wait to see this come together.
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I'm trying. Currently I'm swamped at work and I have a house full of sick kids and wife. On top of that, I'm going on a work trip after the holidays to Vienna Austria that I have to get ready for.
 
Badart said:
I'm trying. Currently I'm swamped at work and I have a house full of sick kids and wife. On top of that, I'm going on a work trip after the holidays to Vienna Austria that I have to get ready for.
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Excuses, excuses, excuses....:D

I hope the family get's all better so you all can have a merry Christmas.
 
Cool build up! I love seeing old early-a's race around the track!
 
DionR said:
Found the blog, if you're interested. Scroll down to the second post on the 21st in the link (November 2010), about half way down. He talks about why early camaro's are slow on the autocross, starting with the nut behind the wheel and then talking about the problems with the OEM suspension.

Seems he settled on a 500# wheel rate, and to get that he needed 1582# springs. Because of the spring location, it makes it really hard to get the rates he needs, and makes shock tuning a real bear.

Not really related to your project. Sorry about the rabbit trail.
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I did notice the the motion ratio of the camaro lowers is really bad and it makes sense that he would have to run so much spring rate. It really doesn't allow the shock to work, like he said in his blog. I guess guys are compensating with 12" slicks.

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Here are the lowers that I am running. I have not measured the motion ratio with these, but should be really good because the base of the spring almost contacts the spindle. I will check that and post the results. On the front I am most likely going to start at a 500 lb spring and limit the amount of droop with longer bump stops. I won't need 7" of wheel travel and the bump steer that would come with it. One thing that I like and hate about the early cars is how far the sway bar come out towards the end of the arm. This should allow me to run a smaller bar, but will also limit my turning radius. I plan to put my sway bar in my tubing bender and do a couple of custom bends to allow more turning radius.

The steering will be a factory power box with a 2:1 steering quickener in the column, so it will end up being about 1.5 turns lock to lock. Can you say go cart steering. Bump steer is really the only thing that I am concerned about, but once I get everything aligned I will be checking that and posting the results.
 

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Its interesting that for the last 30 or 40 years, the camaro front clip was THE choice for building circle track cars, all the way from streetstock to camaro clip late models. Seems unlikely that there is some major flaw in them if they work so well in those situations.. Lots of people think running high spring rates is the answer all the time, and thats not allways the case.. A suspension must work, to keep the tire planted.. If he has huge tires, they are probally doing all the flexing!
 
I have been super busy with the Christmas holiday, family stuff and getting orders out, but I do have a little to report. Been collecting parts and Justin is still working on the heads. I picked up a fresh 9" 3rd member with a rebuilt trac loc with new discs and all new bearings. I will be swapping in a 4.78 gear set. I have done the math and will put me close to 70 mph in second gear, which is the fastest the SCCA will allow you to run on most courses.

I have gutted everything in the car. Going with lexan windshield and big back window. I received my 2:1 steering quickener and quick release steering wheel hub.

Mounted the Kirkey seats on a set of modified early seat tracks and mocked up the main hoop. I can't mount the seat any lower, because my wife can't see over the dash, so I guess it's low enough.
 

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Are you using the stock steering box with the Quickner? I have absolutely no knowledge of that part. What would be the ratio with it? 12:1 with the stock steering box? Is there a way to get it to work with the stock steering column?
 
Louis Yes I'm using the factory power steering box. It's not recommended to use one of these with manual steering. It's taking it from roughly 3 turns lock to lock to 1.5. Less steering input, like a go cart. LOL
 
Damn power steering too! It will be like a go cart. It's gunna feel light as all get out! Is this one a 4speed?
 
Autocross is a lot of fun. Many good people.

I can't wait to see the big tires mounted all around your car.
 
Mad Dart said:
Damn power steering too! It will be like a go cart. It's gunna feel light as all get out! Is this one a 4speed?
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I plan on running slicks on 10" wheels all around. I am planning on running a 904 with manual valve body(so my wife can drive it too, her car), stock convertor (engine braking) and running a ton of gear like a 4.78 The idea is to trip the timing lights in second and leave it there. I need something that can pull hard from 2,500-6,000 rpm. Justin is specing a solid cam for me and porting the heads to flow over 260ish at .500" The cam will pull hard down low and have good midrange. This is the plan anyway.
 
BigWhip said:
Autocross is a lot of fun. Many good people.

I can't wait to see the big tires mounted all around your car.
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Just to get the car on the track this year I will be running G Force radials until I can get the wheels that I want. Then the fenders will get flared so I can run the stance that I want. My goal is to keep the 65 Barracuda looking stock from the outside.
 
replicaracer43 said:
Its interesting that for the last 30 or 40 years, the camaro front clip was THE choice for building circle track cars, all the way from streetstock to camaro clip late models. Seems unlikely that there is some major flaw in them if they work so well in those situations.. Lots of people think running high spring rates is the answer all the time, and thats not allways the case.. A suspension must work, to keep the tire planted.. If he has huge tires, they are probally doing all the flexing!
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As I recall from reading the blog, an aftermarket lower control arm helps a bunch because you an get a much better motion ratio. That isn't an option for the guy in the blog.

I suspect that most people use the camaro front clip because; 1. it's from a camaro, so it has to be fast, 2. it's from a chevy so it must be better. I wouldn't be surprised if you dug into it some, that the front clip was used because it unbolted and was a good width, but most of the suspension components were re-engineered.
 
OOooowww Shiny. I picked up these lightly used Wilwood Machined 4 piston calipers for next to nothing on Ebay. The piston diameter specs out and will work for what I need. They even came with new pads. I love late night ebay deals. It's a win, win they clear the early sway bar tabs no problem and they weigh only 5 lbs each compared to the 14 lb factory one piston calipers. That is 18 lbs of unsprung weight removed from the front suspension. I will machine some aluminum brackets to mount them, similar to the AR Engineering brackets.
 

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Mad Dart said:
Lookin good!
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Thanks Louis. I plan on running new steel lines with a proportioning valve under the drivers seat and have the front lines pass through the frame rails with stainless steel flex lines to the calipers.
 
Well I have had zero time to work on the car. I have been swamped with orders and other work obligations, but I have collected some more parts for the build.

Here is a used set of Afco dirt track gauges that I picked up for $20 thanks ebay. I'm still not sure about having a fuel pressure gauge mounted on the dash bar. So it may be getting relocated some how to the cowl area or gone completely.

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Here is a brand new 4.78 ring and pinion that has been lightened and polished from one of them nascar teams. Ooooo shiny

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Picked up a set of used coated Doug's headers from a fellow fabo member. I would have preferred TTi's, but may find some later.

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A new MSD 6AL box traded from a fellow fabo member. Thanks Craig

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A new fuel pump and holley regulator from another fabo member.

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Double win,Bad! You are swamped with orders,and work! Well,time can be a problem,swamped. Peace,4 now.
 
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