Lucas Response To Zinc Additive

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The VR1 that you find on the shelves that is street legal is holding the proper amount of zinc.
Go here -->https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf

And it will bring up the break down of their SM rated VR1. Which according to the doc is .14/.13 on the zinc/phos.

Dan...


Just a point of note: Any oil that has an SM rating or CJ rating on the bottle has only 800 ppm of zinc regardless of what the marketeers have put on the bottle. Valvoline for example makes two types of VR1 one with the SM rating and only has 800 ppm and the other that has no sevice rating and does contain more. The VR1 you see on the shelf at your Local chain store is the SM rated stuff.
 
And it will bring up the break down of their SM rated VR1. Which according to the doc is .14/.13 on the zinc/phos.

Dan...

There was a discussion about zinc a while back where someone posted a comparison between a ppm number and a .xx number so it would be easier to compare the oil in question. I just don't recall what it was or how to figure it out.
 
1 ppm = 1 part per million so 1200 ppm works out to:

1200 /1,000,000 = 0.0012

0.0012 x 100 = 0.12%

Thanks!
That was too easy! I must be more tired than I thought this morning. :(
 
Speaking as a old fart myself, slow to change my ways, local respected motor men I know are loosing motors (cams) with the old oil. They swear you must run the new oil in old motors.
 
Speaking as a old fart myself, slow to change my ways, local respected motor men I know are loosing motors (cams) with the old oil. They swear you must run the new oil in old motors.

You are ABSOLUTELY right !!!!
as the expression goes "Use it or lose it"
 
love the work dan! but i was following your math and im pretty sure you converted using fluid ounces/gallon in UK measurments not US standard....i could be completely wrong but i did this multiple times on my math (like i said i could be wrong) and the only way i achieved your findings was using UK measurment......"corrected" amounts i achieved .63 ounces of moose milk to get approx 1160 ppm total, needing about .02 additional ounces, not .05....if im wrong please school me, im by no means a math-magician....
 
nevermind, i found my booboo. once again ive made an *** of meself :eek:ops: thanks again!!! very helpful article by the way.
 
My engine rebuilder also brought this to my attention when I asked about oil,break in & longevity of my engine. So,I do trust that it is a fact despite THEM not spelling correctly. I did add the STP oil treatment to mine which has a zinc additive.
 
Brad Penn also makes the oil with the correct additive or you can buy a supplement bottle and use your own oil.......

I am not sure what oil was used for break in and dyno on my stroker, bought it with only that wear. I have used Brad Penn since I got it and after a season the Comp PP508 hyd cam looks great as do the lifter faces.

Going with a solid roller now and thought I better put in a bottle of break in additive as I will be using Rotella 15W-40 next. The additive came from Hughes and it says moly, not "zink". One bottle for 6 qts of oil. Sigh, I have a 8 qt pan.

Seems to me that the little stroker is hard on oil as it comes out pretty dark. Of course, the Brad Penn is dark green when it goes in too.
 
Going with a solid roller now and thought I better put in a bottle of break in additive as I will be using Rotella 15W-40 next. The additive came from Hughes and it says moly, not "zink". One bottle for 6 qts of oil. Sigh, I have a 8 qt pan.

Seems to me that the little stroker is hard on oil as it comes out pretty dark. Of course, the Brad Penn is dark green when it goes in too.

airwoofer, I am a chemist and have been employed in the aerospace industry for 25 years. The "moly" additive is used in the airplane industry for high temperature wear protection. When it is combined with sulfur as Molybdenum disulfide (MoS2), it will darken the lubricant depending on the amount blended in. We have greases that are black due to the presence of MoS2. I am not surprised that your Moly containing oil is pretty dark. It is probably due to the Moly being in the form of Molybdenum disulfide (MoS2).

If you really want to know how your oil is performing then you might want to pay to have it analyzed at a petroleum lab. One of my engineer co-workers runs his cars on the road racing circuit and he has his oil analyzed.

Just some info for you.
 
Cool thread! Thanks for the info!

ZDDP additive is great in moderation in my opinion. SSD already did all the hard work and told us exactly how much Lucas to use per oil change. I personally run a quarter bottle of Lucas ZDDP moose juice per oil change. Of course Lucas suggests 9 bottles per oil change. They love money.

15w-40 is hell on a car engine at start up even in 75 degree weather!
It is pure suicide on your engine at 30 degrees.

Running diesel 15w40 in an effort to have more zinc:
you are having severely delayed lubrication to the upper half of the engine (dry rubbing cams and journals, pushrods, rockers, valves).

The object on startup is to get full oil pressure to all extremities of the engine instantly (near as possible to instantly). The other object is to reduce parasitic drag and allow oil to return to the sump quickly while allowing foam and air bubbles to escape suspension in the oil.
Thick 15w40 may read full oil pressure on the gauge in 10 seconds, but the small parts are all still waiting (dying).

Engine oil will take 20+ minutes to warm up fully. During this delay, thicker oils will exacerbate the wear on engine extremities.

Thicker oil robbs horse power, clings to the crankshaft weights and throws, starves the engine on startup and fails to return to the crankcase quickly, foams more, traps air bubbles more and thins out more as it gets miles on it.

Racing oil at 40, 50, 60 wt is designed to operate at 300-500 degrees F. It thins out to its predetermined viscosity based on operating temperature and stays there until the end of the race where it is drained and chucked in the fire.

It is not designed for proper lubrication at startup, it is not designed to operate at 30F and is not designed to operate at 220 - 250 degrees. It does not have additive packages which allow for operation at 2500, 3500 or 5000 + mile intervals.

You only need enough "thickness" to maintain 10 psi per 1k rpm. Tailor your high side number accordingly (based on psi at max operating temperature). Then run your low side number as you can afford $. For example 0w40, 0w30, 0w20, 5w30 etc. This way you have optimized startup lubrication, reduced engine drag, better return to sump and more engine longevity.

If you choose to run rotella or similar for a higher detergent and zinc-phosphorous package, run 10w30. Zinc and many other additives are consumed as the oil is driven over time, in the engine which is something that was not mentioned thus far.

Lately I prefer NAPA 5w-30 synthetic with about 3 oz of LUCAS ZDDP in older engines. I run rotella or dello 10w30 or 15w40 w a bit of zddp in the farm equipment.

BTW, almost every "Synthetic" on the market are not synthetic. Just high grade, highly refined crude oil. True synthetic costs a fortune. Mobile 1 is not true pure synthetic. It may not even be synthetic at all.
Just look up the legalities behind the nomenclature "Synthetic Oil".

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

A wealth of knowledge if so inclined.
 
I`ve read that a minimum of 1100ppm is enough to protect most cams/lifters. It`s also important to have a little phosphorus in the blend as well. I`ve just been using Valvoline VR-1 which is formulated for use with flat tappet cams. I like Lucas products but I would be less than impressed with a tech that tells you to "defiantly" use "Zink" in your engine. Although I know what he`s trying to say, it just seems very unprofessional. The math is also weird, 5200ppm, and if you were to add a pint of this to your engine wouldn`t you only add 4.5 quarts of oil to your engine? Oh well, I like the idea of using oil that is already mixed.


You are correct - 1200 ppm of zinc and actually 1300 ppm of phosphorus is about the perfect blend from the research I did some time back. Anything much above 1600 ppm is a waste and at some point becomes detrimental to the bearing surfaces - especially during break in. While we are at dispelling myths lets add another one. Roller cam set ups still need / benefit from zinc in the oil.. They are a bit less forgiving once the engine is broke in - with zinc, but still benefit from the zinc. Most roller cam motors (I'm not talking the modern motors) also tend to have high lift cams, high pressure springs and these really do need oil containing zinc. Ask any of the manufacturers of these components what they want to see you use for their cams, rockers, etc.. If you are going to spend the money to build an old motor, why skimp on the oil?
 
Wow. Either Lucas is very embarrassed to be represented in such an unprofessional way, or they are seriously lacking professionalism. Surely they are aware of this thread. Does not look good for them.
 
It depends a lot on how the customer interprets the statements I would think....in the current lucas technical data catalog, theres one line in the description that says, "It is excellent for flat tappet camshafts during break in OR as an additive to any motor oil to prevent premature wear" thanks to this thread its easier to put some research behind it rather than assume "Hey lets throw the whole bottle in! It cant hurt!!!" Yea im guilty...:eek:ops: Oh and from this tech article here: http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30483 id feel pretty confident to say that MOST current API SN rated oils that are not specifically marketed as racing oil, older vehicle oil, or otherwise, are generally around 800ppm zinc, or 0.08%. So the awesome explanation and breakdown of Slant Six Dan is still valid to use in a real world application.
 
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