Hypocrites......

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inkjunkie said:
Robert, you more or less summed up this guy. I know I am just as guilty as the next guy for not having a filter between my brain and my mouth at times and perhaps that is just what it is. I have had several conversations with this fellow over the few years that I have known him where his mouth was a half second ahead of his brain. This particular conversation we had just sort of pushed me over the edge.
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I have a question I usually ask people when they go off like that:

"Did you hear what you just said?"

It usually catches people off guard and you have to tell them what they just said.

When you have to repeat back to them what they just said, it tells you that they are, indeed, suffering from mouth in OD, brain in neutral. It usually makes them stop and think about how what they just said doesn't jive.

If they know what they just said and stand by it, then you know they've thought things through and it's time to walk away and not hypocrasize yourself by listening anymore.

Because, personally, I'm worried more about my own hypocrisy than I am the other guys.
 
ramenth said:
Doug, one the things you have to remember is people are people. And people do stupid things. Most of 'em aren't even aware of most of the things that come out of their mouths.

The old engage mouth, leave brain in neutral thing.
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Agreed, but there are those who simply follow the teachings of the Bible. I can honestly say my Dad was one of them.

I don't care how hard anyone tried you could not get him to speak ill of anyone. He truly "practiced" what he "preached".

I don't care how many times someone would beguile, ridicule or otherwise insult him, he would simply turn the other cheek, I saw it many times growing up and as an adult. I never saw him get angry, disappointed sometimes, but never angry. I wish I had the fortitude to be more like him.

I guess my point is a "true" Christian or otherwise believer will follow their beliefs 100%, 100% of the time. It truly takes a special person to do that.
 
I have to be honest, these discussions drive me nuts and normally I don't get involved, but this time I will. As a Bible thumper who declares himself completely inperfect but made clean in Christ I say to you the same thing I say to myself, and often need my wife to remind me of...

"...first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." Matthew 7:5

Whether you are a believer or not, you and I, we're all sinners. Just because I'm a believer saved by grace doesn't mean I'm not going to make mistakes. I have, do, and will continue to do so. It's what happens after the fact that should do more talking, how do I make it right. Do I humble myself and look to rectify my wrong, or do I simply keep going, not giving a single consideration to he/she I've wronged. As I reflect on my life, I've done both in my time and I would bet, Christian or something else, you (and I mean everybody) have too. There is only 1 man who lived a perfect life whether you believe it or not.

So before you, me, or anybody else starts throwing people under the bus and calling people hypocrites, make sure your life is clean as snow first. That goes for absolutely everybody, me and any other Bible thumper included.

My heart is to lead a life that pleases Christ, makes Him smile on me and say, "well done..." The fact of the matter is I've blown it and will continue to on occasion. I was screwed up just like you by other people in this world and it can take a lifetime to heal those wounds; especially if you have no idea the wounds exist nor what they are. We all will meet the judge, whether you believe it will happen or not, and we all will be judged on how we have lived according to His guidelines.

Take it as you may and do with it as you wish, but before you start lambasting others, make sure your slate is 100% clean because you then fit the shoes you claim the other guy is wearing.

For the record, I'm not defending or arguing for/against anyone. Christians should be held to a higher standard based on the beliefs they profess. All people in fact should "try" to live to the standards that non-Christians hold Christians to. If that were the case, this world would be a heck of a lot different, I guarantee it.

Something else to keep in mind, according to a poll in 2012, 73% of Americans profess to be Christians. I would argue that not all "Christians" are believers. Personally, I view Christians different from believers, but that is probably more semantics. Again, remove your log first. Something for all of us to keep in mind. Nobody should hold others to a standard they are not willing or can not uphold themselves. It's hard not to be judgmental though. By our very nature we are selfish and judgmental.

Some food for thought.
 
Bad Sport said:
I guess my point is a "true" Christian or otherwise believer will follow their beliefs 100%, 100% of the time. It truly takes a special person to do that.
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I don't disagree with this statement. I would ask though, you ever screwed up? If so, odds are you may not have lived up to your beliefs 100%, 100% of the time. Before you tell me I'm not a "true Christian or otherwise believer" because I fell short at some point, make sure you live according to your own beliefs 100%, 100% of the time. Whatever those beliefs are, Bible-based or not. Many "Christians" are still learning what their beliefs are...
 
Anytime you point your finger at someone you are always pointing three right back at yourself... Sometimes to make peace we have to destroy our enemy...
 
swisswill said:
I don't disagree with this statement. I would ask though, you ever screwed up? If so, odds are you may not have lived up to your beliefs 100%, 100% of the time. Before you tell me I'm not a "true Christian or otherwise believer" because I fell short at some point, make sure you live according to your own beliefs 100%, 100% of the time. Whatever those beliefs are, Bible-based or not. Many "Christians" are still learning what their beliefs are...
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First off, why are you attacking me, that post above was about my Dad, who truly lived his life as he preached. Not many can do that.

In answer to your question, yes all the time.
 
I'm not attacking you or anybody else and I'm sorry if the way I responded caused you to feel that way. You said however, ""true" Christian or otherwise believer will follow their beliefs 100%, 100% of the time. It truly takes a special person to do that." I don't disagree that is what believers, or others for that matter, should hold themselves to but it's an impossibility. Only 1 person has ever done it. It's not fair to label someone, or unlabel them (for lack of a better term) because they are not able to follow their beliefs 100%, 100% of the time, when none of us can do it. On the other hand, life isn't always "fair," as we may want it to be anyway.

The biggest problem I have with these discussions is that they are, more often than not, emotionally driven. And that is why I generally do not get involved, because when emotions are involved and labels are given (to anybody), people are more quick to read statements in a manner unintended. This "could" be a case in point. But this also happens when we all sit behind keyboards and try to discuss things that often end in heated arguments live and direct. Just my .02.
 
we as humans are not that great lol, we are flawed from the go and will be till we die. but its hard to not know we are spiritual beings ...remove the spirit/life and whats left rotting organics.I can only tell of the great changes the lord has made in my life...he and he alone go all the glory !!!! as we judge so shall we also be judged.
 
ramenth said:
I have a question I usually ask people when they go off like that:

"Did you hear what you just said?"

It usually catches people off guard and you have to tell them what they just said.

.....
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That is great! Wish someone would say that to me occasionally...
 
ramenth said:
"Did you hear what you just said?"
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Robert.....you related to my old head doc in AZ? That is THE very question he used to ask me as I was stomping around his office, ranting on how I wanted to hurt various people in my life. That was the very question that led to him removing me from my job. I was off on a tear about something and I made a direct threat towards a boss.

Anyhow, I am not religious. Long boo hoo story that is nobodies business but mine. I do believe in a higher power, but I have no clue as to who it is. I do not have any problems with Religious folks, just find a lot of hypocrisy in it. I find it amusing, guess that is a good word, that people will damn near preach to you and then the next words out of there mouth are words wishing harm on someone. In the simplest of terms that is a hypocrite in my world. It does not mean that persons religion is hypocritical, just THAT person. I understand that people are humans and make mistakes every day, understand that some folks have the filter between the brain and mouth turned off at times......BUT in the simplest of terms if you are going to offer prayers for damn near every cause, come close to preaching to people and then say harmful, hurtful things in the next sentence than THAT person is indeed a hypocrite.

I try not to get involved in these discussion all that often. The person that I am talking about is a neighbor, one of the few that I have and talk with. But I do see this behavior from a certain few folks on this site. I seriously hope that I have not offended any one by starting this.

I do find it interesting that some folks say to look in a mirror. For what it is worth I am full of hatred and anger. But I do not "hide" behind anything. I do not go spewing my beliefs and then wish harm on someone. For that matter, the very few folks that are very close to me are the same way. I have been told that I am a member of the "ME" society. To that my response is always damn straight, I put my wife and myself before anyone else. If I was down to my last dollar and it came down to feeding a neighbor or feeding myself my choice is obvious.....wouldn't yours be? Perhaps my real problem is I am just to much of a simple soul.........
 
swisswill said:
I'm not attacking you or anybody else and I'm sorry if the way I responded caused you to feel that way. You said however, ""true" Christian or otherwise believer will follow their beliefs 100%, 100% of the time. It truly takes a special person to do that." I don't disagree that is what believers, or others for that matter, should hold themselves to but it's an impossibility. Only 1 person has ever done it. It's not fair to label someone, or unlabel them (for lack of a better term) because they are not able to follow their beliefs 100%, 100% of the time, when none of us can do it. On the other hand, life isn't always "fair," as we may want it to be anyway.

The biggest problem I have with these discussions is that they are, more often than not, emotionally driven. And that is why I generally do not get involved, because when emotions are involved and labels are given (to anybody), people are more quick to read statements in a manner unintended. This "could" be a case in point. But this also happens when we all sit behind keyboards and try to discuss things that often end in heated arguments live and direct. Just my .02.
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No offense taken it just seemed as though you were directing at me when I was speaking of someone else.

I certainly don't even come close to living the way my Dad did that's for sure, and I don't profess to. But if anyone exemplifies the way the Bible teaches us to live, he did. I don't know how he did it either, some of the things I saw him go through when I was growing up would have put me in ballistic mode had it been me, but he would forgive and forget. I would always asked him how, never could understand the answer. I have since begun to understand, but still have a tough time governing myself at times.
 
inkjunkie said:
Robert.....you related to my old head doc in AZ? That is THE very question he used to ask me as I was stomping around his office, ranting on how I wanted to hurt various people in my life. That was the very question that led to him removing me from my job. I was off on a tear about something and I made a direct threat towards a boss.
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I'm no psyche, just an observant person going through life. It's a question, mainly, I wind up asking myself for the most part.

We're all prone to foot in mouth disease and some of us wind up doing things that don't make sense for the person we are. The stories I could tell...

inkjunkie said:
Anyhow, I am not religious. Long boo hoo story that is nobodies business but mine. I do believe in a higher power, but I have no clue as to who it is.
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And since that's your business I won't ask or ask that you put it out in public. Not the kind of person I am. I will only witness for myself. I can't witness for others. I can only pray that by living the way I live it sets an example.

inkjunkie said:
I do not have any problems with Religious folks,
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Good. That's means you don't have a problem with me, per se. ;-)

inkjunkie said:
just find a lot of hypocrisy in it. I find it amusing, guess that is a good word, that people will damn near preach to you and then the next words out of there mouth are words wishing harm on someone. In the simplest of terms that is a hypocrite in my world. It does not mean that persons religion is hypocritical, just THAT person.
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Good for you in understanding that it's the people, not the establishment. Without getting long winded here, most people know what they know and are unwilling to learn what they don't know.

I go to church. I'm a preacher. I've led a lot of ministries, helped a lot of people and in the process I've been helped.

Not many people are willing to go in-depth into theology and actually study. Most's people's study goes as far as what they hear on Sundays or what they hear on the radio or TV. Very few are willing to comment to something in-depth and be challenged.

Most people would rather hide in what they know and not expand themselves beyond that.

inkjunkie said:
I understand that people are humans and make mistakes every day, understand that some folks have the filter between the brain and mouth turned off at times......BUT in the simplest of terms if you are going to offer prayers for damn near every cause, come close to preaching to people and then say harmful, hurtful things in the next sentence than THAT person is indeed a hypocrite.
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I'm not disagreeing with you.

Some folks seem to forget a few simple things. They'll pray for the things they agree with, follow what they like, yet are unwilling to step out of the comfort zone and go places they never been or pray for the people and things they don't agree with.

Some are unwilling to live by the example set before them.

inkjunkie said:
I try not to get involved in these discussion all that often. The person that I am talking about is a neighbor, one of the few that I have and talk with. But I do see this behavior from a certain few folks on this site. I seriously hope that I have not offended any one starting this.
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You're not offending me, I assure you. And I certainly hope that I'm not of the ones on this site of whom you're talking.

The only time I get involved, truly, with discussions like this is when someone sets my blood boiling. In this case, I assure you, someone will spout off on "religious hypocrites" that will only prove him or her to be the exact same thing they are accusing others of being.

inkjunkie said:
I do find it interesting that some folks say to look in a mirror. For what it is worth I am full of hatred and anger. But I do not "hide" behind anything. I do not go spewing my beliefs and then wish harm on someone. For that matter, the very few folks that are very close to me are the same way. I have been told that I am a member of the "ME" society. To that my response is always damn straight, I put my wife and myself before anyone else. If I was down to my last dollar and it came down to feeding a neighbor or feeding myself my choice is obvious.....wouldn't yours be? Perhaps my real problem is I am just to much of a simple soul.........
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When I said "look in the mirror," I'm speaking more of myself. Like I said, I can only witness for myself and as such can only speak for myself. Trust me, the hardest thing I can do is look in the mirror and examine myself. I don't always like what I see, but I know, when it comes down to it, besides God Himself, is the only person who can truly judge my actions is the man looking back at me.

You and I have differing of opinions on the idea of who to feed. Chances are I'll give away that last dime and feed someone else. I can earn the dime back, hunt and grow my own food. The other may not.
 
swisswill said:
I'm not attacking you or anybody else and I'm sorry if the way I responded caused you to feel that way. You said however, ""true" Christian or otherwise believer will follow their beliefs 100%, 100% of the time. It truly takes a special person to do that." I don't disagree that is what believers, or others for that matter, should hold themselves to but it's an impossibility. Only 1 person has ever done it. It's not fair to label someone, or unlabel them (for lack of a better term) because they are not able to follow their beliefs 100%, 100% of the time, when none of us can do it. On the other hand, life isn't always "fair," as we may want it to be anyway.

The biggest problem I have with these discussions is that they are, more often than not, emotionally driven. And that is why I generally do not get involved, because when emotions are involved and labels are given (to anybody), people are more quick to read statements in a manner unintended. This "could" be a case in point. But this also happens when we all sit behind keyboards and try to discuss things that often end in heated arguments live and direct. Just my .02.
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A "true" christian really isnt possible. Not to an agreeable standard. There are thousands of denominations...many many more if you break it down to how within denominations there are individual followers who pick/choose what they want and ignore the icky stuff that their church might push as being good.

And some would argue that it would be the people who follow the bible the closest right? Yet look at those people...namely, the Phelps family. Not a single view they have with regard to their religion and the imaginary deity they follow is unjustified. Yet so so many people will claim they arent "true christians" because their views are unpleasant...and evil.
 
inkjunkie said:
Not my intention. Took part in a discussion with a neighbor the other day. I am not the least bit religious and he knows it. One sentence he is all religious & the next he is wishing harm on a few folks. Just trying to understand it......The conversation ended with me just turning around and walking away from him...just to avoid the confrontation.....
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You did the right thing. Hopefully he learns more from your action.
 
You know what....If a hypocrite stands between you and God he is closer to God than you. Now that will fire up some comments but let me go on to say. It's not what the other guy is doing it's what are you doing well let me keep it in "I" statements. I try everyday to live my life as I think/believe God wants me to. Fail? Everyday I fall short. But if you or anyone else does that is your/their business. I need to focus on my own standing with God...that way I do not become a hypocrite just a sinner ....a salty old cracker as someone said...LOL I like that.
 
Being a "true Christian" doesn't mean you follow the bible 100% perfectly. It would be impossible for us. But what Christ teaches us is to keep trying to become perfect. To follow him & His teachings. His expectations of us are not to be perfect in this world all at once. But as some have said you reflect on yourself & concentrate on your own course corrections to get back on track & follow Him. Our imperfections are our own crosses to bear. He died for our sins so we don't have to die for them nor (figuratively speaking) keep killing our neighbor over his sins either. Baptism is a life long journey. We enter into heaven perfect, but we don't walk this earth in perfection. God's love for us is the only perfection we need. It is perfect & without conditions placed upon it. We need to 1st adopt an attitude of gratitude toward GOD & His love for us. Then by his grace we start to, step by small step, walking a more narrow path toward righteousness. We then can develop gratitude for our fellow man & forgive his imerfections. Realizing that but for the grace of GOD there go I.
I can only say that I know where I've been & where it could have led to. But God in his grace put enough people, in my way at times, in my corner at others & looking back I give him all the glory & credit. I know I'll still mess up. I know I still have a long way to go. But I know that my redeemer lives & he is there for me.
I'm not a preacher, I don't consider myself a "Bible thumper", I'm just an ordinary schmo who has been blessed & by GOD's grace & some dumb luck I realize it. Not nearly as I'm sure I should, but hey I'm trying.
 
Everyone behaves in a hypocritical way from time to time, even "atheists". Hypocrisy is not who you are, it's how you act and your attitude. You can't be an angry but you can behave in an angry way, or even have an angry attitude. Why do atheists use the Lords name in vain when they profess not to believe in Him? If He didn't exist then the name would be meaningless. If they were not hypocritical they should cuss in the name of Darwin or something.
 
nuttyprof said:
Everyone behaves in a hypocritical way from time to time, even "atheists". Hypocrisy is not who you are, it's how you act and your attitude. You can't be an angry but you can behave in an angry way, or even have an angry attitude. Why do atheists use the Lords name in vain when they profess not to believe in Him? If He didn't exist then the name would be meaningless. If they were not hypocritical they should cuss in the name of Darwin or something.
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That's not a great example though. Swearing has nothing to do with beliefs or reality. If the common phrasing was "unicorn damnit", A-cornists like myself would still be saying "unicorn damnit". And saying it wouldnt mean unicorns exist, the phrase would still have meaning because presumably, there would be people that believe in unicorns.
 
Some who want to be mechanics just aren't real good at it.
Some who want to be singers just aren't real good at it.
Some who want to be christians just aren't real good at it.
Some who want to make some sense here just aint real good at it.
We shouldn't judge and/or label others based on their words or actions.
If we did, every officer who shot and killed a perpitrater would be labeled murderer.
Here in the south you will often here "Well bless your heart". Does it sometimes mean 'Eat sht and die"? Yep. Who cares ? God knows whats in the heart regardless what is shown on the outside.
 
magnumdust said:
A "true" christian really isnt possible. Not to an agreeable standard. There are thousands of denominations...many many more if you break it down to how within denominations there are individual followers who pick/choose what they want and ignore the icky stuff that their church might push as being good.

And some would argue that it would be the people who follow the bible the closest right? Yet look at those people...namely, the Phelps family. Not a single view they have with regard to their religion and the imaginary deity they follow is unjustified. Yet so so many people will claim they arent "true christians" because their views are unpleasant...and evil.
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oh Grasshopper...you have not even learned to snatch the pebble from the hand....and yet you want to teach..

just believing in God does not make you a Christian.......
A Christian can be of many denominations....it is about believing that Jesus Christ is the son of God....he suffered and died for our sins to allow us eternal salvation....(and hears the important part)...truly BELIEVE in HIM and you may someday enter His Kindom in Heaven.

now...pray tell...what is evil about that?
 
HemiDenny said:
oh Grasshopper...you have not even learned to snatch the pebble from the hand....and yet you want to teach..

just believing in God does not make you a Christian.......
A Christian can be of many denominations....it is about believing that Jesus Christ is the son of God....he suffered and died for our sins to allow us eternal salvation....(and hears the important part)...truly BELIEVE in HIM and you may someday enter His Kindom in Heaven.

now...pray tell...what is evil about that?
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1. basic issue that said deity "loves us" but deems it necessary to condemn people for hell for nothing more than thoughts otherwise...that's petty and psychotic
2.basis for building the beliefs are based nothing except stories(not back by any facts or evidence)
3. On top that, according to the beliefs, almost nothing else matters. Murder people? torture people? molest kids? All forgivable. Rational thought? tortured forever.
4. The belief(that is horrifically taught to children) that we are all vile, bad, disgusting creatures in need of saving. No one should be taught they are not good from the start.
5. Oh and worshiping the torture and death of another human being.(even if no evidence suggest that said being was ever a real person)
 
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