just a thought

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Princess Valiant

Princess Valiant

A.K.A. Rainy Day Auto
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its hard to think of air as a solid bcoz its hardly seen .......and in the conventional way of thinking, a solid is something visable. yet its visable inside a container such as a tire ....you can see an over inflated tire

so that being said is it possible that an object that is set in motion is kept in motion by a transfered force of another solid which is actually AIR. and as the air dissapates and friction overcomes the kinetic motion and the car comes to a stop.

so if it has been proven that an aero dynamic car like a superbird is able to cut though the "solid" air and reduce friction is able to go faster.....wouldnt it make sense that a car that is aero dynamic on the rear side would stop better, if you think in terms of car with the brakes applied at a complete and the air from its peak speed is still in kinetic form and still pushing the car.

so with that ...how would we measure the pounds per square inch of of air on the surface of a car going full speed?

is it possible that all air in the atmoshpere is compressed air and that may be the reason there is no air on the moon bcoz of the lack of an atmosphere that is effective in compressing the air.

if what i am thinking is true then that would undermind newtons law of motion......and in a way that would not surprise bcoz he is working on a theory only and there is no way to test the theory either on an astro or quantum level.....the only test available as of now is within the confines of the atmosphere which may compressed. so where do we set the benchmark the theory to account for the compression of the atmosphere.

so it would make sense to me that we are approaching auto design wrong and the awnser is a vented and aerodynamic apporach to better braking effectivness.

i dont know ....just a thought.....any physics guys here?
 
Hi Rani! You should watch the Big Bang Theory on TV with the crazy physics guys.

The air is on Earth because of gravity. The air molecules have mass and their mass is attracted to the mass of the Earth. Air drag acts on cars with speed and increases per the square of the speed. That's why it takes so much more HP to gain just a little more top end speed.

Racers already do make use of reverse aerodynamics for braking purposes when they pop the handle for the drag chute.

Air is considered a fluid, believe it or not. Though it is a gas, as it is in vapor form, it acts as a fluid albeit it is one that will allow compression (unlike most liquids).

Great minds have been mulling over air for centuries. You've just joined their club - welcome!
 
RaniDart70 said:
its hard to think of air as a solid bcoz its hardly seen .......and in the conventional way of thinking, a solid is something visable. yet its visable inside a container such as a tire ....you can see an over inflated tire
Click to expand...

I always thought of air as a gas.....as a matter of fact, it's the first example of a gas that comes to my mind! At any temperature, when is air not a gas or have all properties of a gas? It's usually invisible, compressible, has no shape or form (unless it's pushing out on the inside of said tire).

RaniDart70 said:
so that being said is it possible that an object that is set in motion is kept in motion by a transfered force of another solid which is actually AIR. and as the air dissapates and friction overcomes the kinetic motion and the car comes to a stop.
Click to expand...

Sure!....think windmills or turbos.

RaniDart70 said:
so if it has been proven that an aero dynamic car like a superbird is able to cut though the "solid" air and reduce friction is able to go faster.....wouldnt it make sense that a car that is aero dynamic on the rear side would stop better?
Click to expand...

Sure!.....yes! All they would need to do is make that rear wing be of sufficient strength to be able to rotate 90 degrees and act as a "spoiler" on an airplane, like you see them deploy upon landing! That would be really cool and intimidating on a race car!

RaniDart70 said:
so with that ...how would we measure the pounds per square inch of of air on the surface of a car going full speed?
Click to expand...

I don't even know if you COULD measure all the surfaces, what with all the angles of the bodywork. Total drag yes......maybe if you used electronic sensors that measure force, connected to a laptop.
 
One thing that always puzzled me, and that is.....why doesn't the use of ram air on the intake of an engine produce more power? It always seemed to me that over 100 MPH, the force of the air would add an amazing amount of power, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I had some ideas for a device to harness it better and create more power.
 
I was watching Top Gear on BBC one night when they were test driving the Bugatti Veryon and they had some amazing facts about how much horsepower it took to get the car from 200 to 260 or w/e the top speed was. I looked around for the clip but could not find it. They use aero when braking as well. The huge spoiler on the back goes verticle when your breaking and sort of acts like a mini chute.
 
cudavert said:
One thing that always puzzled me, and that is.....why doesn't the use of ram air on the intake of an engine produce more power? It always seemed to me that over 100 MPH, the force of the air would add an amazing amount of power, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Click to expand...

The shock wave that is created when the air hits the front end of the car causes it to displace upward and keeps the beneficial ram air much higher than most ram air scoops can grab. The higher the vehicle speed, the further distance from the hood surface the ram air is displaced. The theory works really well for aircraft, but they still like to use turbos or superchargers for best results.

You can take advantage of the little bit of compressed air forced into a hood scoop if you make it tall enough to grab the good air at higher speeds.
 
This thread makes my head hurt!! I refuse to do any heavy thinking on Saturday or Sunday
 
Hm
Don't forget that you cant blow air into a carb that is made to run on vacuum either
 

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Actually it would be the opposite. A squared back creates a low pressure area (vacuum), which causes increased drag, aiding braking. An aerodynamic rear would reduce this low pressure drag, hindering braking. That is why the fuselage of aircraft are pointed, to reduce drag during flight. This allows higher speeds, and better fuel efficiency.

Grant
 
OneOfMany said:
Actually it would be the opposite. A squared back creates a low pressure area (vacuum), which causes increased drag, aiding braking. An aerodynamic rear would reduce this low pressure drag, hindering braking. That is why the fuselage of aircraft are pointed, to reduce drag during flight. This allows higher speeds, and better fuel efficiency.

Grant
Click to expand...
Exactly right . Think about the body plug used for the Daytona and Superbird rear glass . They had to bring them out farther to reduce the back pressure from high speeds that caused the air to create negative turbulence across the whole rear of the car .
 
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