Dodge Challenger Wheels

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Tim1932

Tim1932

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I have a 1970 Duster converted to the LBP and was wondering if 2011 Challenger wheels would fit The wheels are 18" an take the 235/55/18 tire. Not sure of the back spacing on them or if it is even the correct 5x4 1/2 pattern.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
The lug pattern is different. Technically, it's actually the Mercedes-Benz 5 on 115mm.

Short answer: no.

PS: what's an LBP?
 
But he started with that...didn't he?

...wait, no, I misread his post as a 74 Duster. Never mind, I need more sleep. Or more coffee.
 
the first new chargers and 300s had a true 114.3 bolt pattern but went to a 115 later

COuld also have those challenger wheel bolt hole milled slightly to fit on the car but I dont know how that would effect the whell though
 
Jarlaxle said:
The lug pattern is different. Technically, it's actually the Mercedes-Benz 5 on 115mm.

Short answer: no.
Click to expand...

74DartSwinger360 said:
the first new chargers and 300s had a true 114.3 bolt pattern but went to a 115 later

COuld also have those challenger wheel bolt hole milled slightly to fit on the car but I dont know how that would effect the whell though
Click to expand...


I've checked some steel wheels myself with a gauge and they are 114.3mm/4.5" EXACTLY. They never used the Merc 115mm pattern.


And the pattern hasn't changed. I just check RockAuto for a 2013 Challenger SRT8 front hub and it fits Challengers from 2008-2013, 300's from 2005-2013, Chargers from 2006-2013 and Magnums from 2005-2008. The same hub for all of them. I didn't verify, but that should include the full range of production of the LX/LC cars. So unless they have multiple patterns machined in the hub (and they don't) the pattern has stayed the same from teh beginning.
 
I thought that they still had that wacky FWD-offset though?
 
They definitely have more offset than the older wheels, but in some cases they are actually less than the Mustang wheels people are running without issues.

Just a quick search turned up a number of +18mm offset for some Challenger R/T wheels (don't know if it is correct) but that is less than the 17x8 Mustang rims I have which are +30mm. Using the 235 tire above, the +18mm wheel would put the edge of tire to mounting surface at about 5.34". Pretty sure my 15x7 cop car rims and 235/60R15 tires are about 5" from inside of tire to mounting surface, so these would be less than 1/2" deeper. Not too bad if you ask me.

Looks like the 18x7.5 steel wheels (Cop Car) are +18mm while the 18x7.5 Aluminum rims are +24mm offset (did another search). That would only add 1/4" more to the depth.

BTW, almost all new cars have much more positive offset in their wheels than the cars used too, it's not just a FWD phenomenon.
 
I have to chime in here, as I've seen this debate / misinformation elsewhere. I have a 2010 Challenger at home and several new Chargers at work. The new cars use the Mercedes bolt pattern (always have) and it is ever so slightly off from the 5x4.5 bolt pattern. I'm refraining from stating the mm sizes because I forget what they are at the moment. However, the sizes referenced above sound about right.

With that said, the new wheels WILL "slide on" the older bolt circle, but it doesn't fit exact, like a wheel SHOULD fit. You can get it to go on and you can bolt it up, but you will be forcing (bending and stressing) the wheel studs to do so when you tighten the lugs.

I've seen them used on old Mopars every once in a while, but in my view, it is dangerous to do so. Plus, yes, the backspacing is wacky when used on the old cars. I saw some new Charger wheels on an old Road Runner and it looked funky IMO.

OK, I feel better now. :)
 
Yeah you'll notice just about every new wheel is flat faced and all backspace. They gather less brake dust so they stay cleaner and are easier to clean when they need it.
I think Chry' changed the bolt pattern between 06 and 07 models. So 06 and early Charger wheels do fit the 4.5 bolt pattern even if their center register doesn't.
 
For what it's worth, the LX cars use a Mercedes E series platform design with not only E series suspension design, but actual Mercedes components. I went to a Chrysler fleet presentation for the LX cars when they first came out and was not only told this, but they had the front and rear suspensions on display with the Mercedes star on most the parts. Our '06 "P"pkg Charger has many Mercedes parts on it. I bought a new steering column for it once and the part came in a Mercedes box with Chrysler part number labels slapped over the Mercedes labels. Our '13 model cars still have the Mercedes star on many of the parts, so they're still "sourcing" Mercedes for parts. BTW, Chrysler is my favorite American (at one time) manufacturer and Mercedes is my favorite foreign manufacturer, so I couldn't have been happier when the two were "married" back in the late '90s. :)
 
Cuda SRT8 said:
I have to chime in here, as I've seen this debate / misinformation elsewhere. I have a 2010 Challenger at home and several new Chargers at work. The new cars use the Mercedes bolt pattern (always have) and it is ever so slightly off from the 5x4.5 bolt pattern. I'm refraining from stating the mm sizes because I forget what they are at the moment. However, the sizes referenced above sound about right.

With that said, the new wheels WILL "slide on" the older bolt circle, but it doesn't fit exact, like a wheel SHOULD fit. You can get it to go on and you can bolt it up, but you will be forcing (bending) the wheel studs to do so when you tighten the lugs.

I've seen them used on old Mopars every once in a while, but in my view, it is dangerous to do so. Plus, yes, the backspacing is wacky when used on the old cars. I saw some new Charger wheels on an old Road Runner and it looked funky IMO.

OK, I feel better now. :)
Click to expand...

But they don't match the Merc pattern. If you take one of your wheels down to a shop and actually have it measured, you will find that they are 114.3mm/4.5". I've physically measured one because I got tired of the back and forth and mis-information. The wheel shops (TireRack, etc.) show 115mm (the Mercedes pattern), but the parts places show 4.5" on the brake parts. I got tired of it and actually checked it myself. Not by putting on on a car and trusting my eyes, but by using a gauge that was designed for it. I just saw a bunch of posts on Challenger websites talking about how it's 115mm and it's not.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=928176&postcount=57

Please go measure one of your wheels (that's not a challenge). Take your spare to a shop and have them put a guage on it. I'd love to hear back, because I don't like wrong information and would like to know if I am wrong. Make sure they put a 115mm gauge on it and look at how it doesn't really fit, but how a 114.3mm/4.5" gauge fits very well. I'm asking sincerely, please try it.
 
RedFish said:
Yeah you'll notice just about every new wheel is flat faced and all backspace. They gather less brake dust so they stay cleaner and are easier to clean when they need it.
I think Chry' changed the bolt pattern between 06 and 07 models. So 06 and early Charger wheels do fit the 4.5 bolt pattern even if their center register doesn't.
Click to expand...

I will repeat what I said above, the same hub fits the challenger from start to finish, from base v6 to SRT8. The pattern was never changed.
 
Cuda SRT8 said:
For what it's worth, the LX cars use a Mercedes E series platform design with not only E series suspension design, but actual Mercedes components. I went to a Chrysler fleet presentation for the LX cars when they first came out and was not only told this, but they had the front and rear suspensions on display with the Mercedes star on most the parts. Our '06 "P"pkg Charger has many Mercedes parts on it. I bought a new steering column for it once and the part came in a Mercedes box with Chrysler part number labels slapped over the Mercedes labels. Our '13 model cars still have the Mercedes star on many of the parts, so they're still "sourcing" Mercedes for parts. BTW, Chrysler is my favorite American (at one time) manufacturer and Mercedes is my favorite foreign manufacturer, so I couldn't have been happier when the two were "married" back in the late '90s. :)
Click to expand...

No argument that they are a Merc sourced platform, but the one thing they didn't borrow was the wheel bolt pattern. Transmission, suspension, etc., aggreed, it was all Mercedes, but not the bolt pattern.
 
Looks like the Mercedes bolt pattern is 5x112mm. Even farther off than I thought.

Confirms for me that the LX/LC cars did not use the Merc bolt pattern, but doesn't shed any light on the 115mm vs. 114.3mm/4.5" debate.
 
lol so regardless if someone wanted to but a set of 17" or 18" LX wheels on say a 74 swinger would there be a need for spacers?
 
Here a thread with a bunch more discussion (same thread as above, but starting from the top):

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=74008

In the thread, 2 different people used spacers on the front, 1/2" in one case and 3/4" in the other. The 1/2" spacer was to clear the hub interference, didn't dig to see what was up with the 3/4" spacer. I suspect that if you opened the wheel up or turned the hub down a touch, you could run the LX/LC 18" wheels without a spacer. I know for a fact that 17x8 Mustang wheels work with a 245/45R17 tire with more offset, so a 7.5 wheel with a narrower tire and less offset should probably work fine once you get past the hub interference (not bolt pattern, hub diameter difference).

In the rear, one guy ran a 1/4" spacer and was a little tight with a 225/60 tire, so I suspect that a stock width axle is a little narrow. The other guy ran a 1" spacer in the rear. Not a lot different than the issues you run into with a Mustang wheel, the A-Body just needs a wider rear axle to run a modern wheel.
 
Isn't it ironic that Mustang rims will bolt on the 'ole MOPAR (lbp) but the new MOPAR rims won't...

Grassy
 
Well, the SRT stuff is essentially AMG parts. Those may in fact be a different size than standard.

As for standard, I brought a PP wheel home and have a couple of spare tire/wheels and they don't fit the MustangII / Granada rotors (5x4.5) I used for mockup on my AlterKtion. I could dig all that stuff out again and double check, but as I remember, the wheels will go on and I did use the spares to roll my car around. However, I just snugged the lug nuts because the lug holes WILL NOT line up correctly.

If you torque the lug nuts, you're going to stress the studs. For anyone not worried about a couple of mm or a few thousandths, go for it. But for me, things like brakes, wheels, tires and suspension are of utmost importance to safety. No way I would ever want to stress the studs like that on my new Baer components and risk an accident and someone's life. Some people go with "close enough". Everyone has a different viewpoint and priority on that kind of stuff I guess...
 
Cuda SRT8 said:
Well, the SRT stuff is essentially AMG parts. Those may in fact be a different size than standard.
Click to expand...

But the hubs are the same for all the cars! How can they be different if they all use the same hub?

Cuda SRT8 said:
As for standard, I brought a PP wheel home and have a couple of spare tire/wheels and they don't fit the MustangII / Granada rotors (5x4.5) I used for mockup on my AlterKtion. I could dig all that stuff out again and double check, but as I remember, the wheels will go on and I did use the spares to roll my car around. However, I just snugged the lug nuts because the lug holes WILL NOT line up correctly.
Click to expand...

I'd bet if you put a guage to the wheels you will find that your eye's deceived you.

Cuda SRT8 said:
If you torque the lug nuts, you're going to stress the studs. For anyone not worried about a couple of mm or a few thousandths, go for it. But for me, things like brakes, wheels, tires and suspension are of utmost importance to safety. No way I would ever want to stress the studs like that on my new Baer components and risk an accident and someone's life. Some people go with "close enough". Everyone has a different viewpoint and priority on that kind of stuff I guess...
Click to expand...

Just so we are clear, I am in no way saying "ignore a couple of mm". I am saying "THEY ARE THE SAME". Big difference there. I agree, if there were off a little I would be against running them, just like I don't like wheel adapters. But that isn't the case here, because they are the same.

Get a guage and try a wheel. Prove me wrong.
 
DionR said:
But the hubs are the same for all the cars! How can they be different if they all use the same hub?
I didn't say they ARE different, I said they MAY be different because I don't know, myself, for a fact. Seems like somebody posted they're different somewhere above. I was just responding to that. However, I do know that the SRT stuff is essentially AMG stuff which I doubt is 4.5 bolt circle. Notice I said "doubt", because I don't know for a fact, by my own experience.

I'd bet if you put a guage to the wheels you will find that your eye's deceived you.
If you put the wheel on the hub and snug just ONE, tapered lug into the tapered hole in the wheel, that is enough to mis-align all the rest of the lugs. That is using a steel wheel with tapered holes and lug nuts. Now, if you had a thicker, mag style wheel that uses the older style mag lugs with say, a one inch shank, you'd get the first one snugged up and the rest of the lug shanks would not go in their respective holes.

Just so we are clear, I am in no way saying "ignore a couple of mm". I am saying "THEY ARE THE SAME". Big difference there. I agree, if there were off a little I would be against running them, just like I don't like wheel adapters. But that isn't the case here, because they are the same.
Well, going by my own experience and not somebody on the internet, I have to disagree. If you insist on being "right" on this issue, that's fine, you can be "right". The only vested interest I had / have is whether I could invest in a couple of wheel styles with the same lug pattern and swap them back and forth between my old 'Cuda and my new Challenger. I've determined by my own experience that I can not, no matter what people say on the internet.

If nothing else, hopefully anyone who is interested in trying the LX wheels on an old Mopar will read these different perspectives on the subject and be very careful to check the fit and decide for themselves, rather than just go by chit chat on the internet.

Get a guage and try a wheel. Prove me wrong.
Click to expand...
I'm really not interested in proving you wrong. Again, I did prove to myself that I can't swap wheels back and forth between my two cars.

Dion, a pet peave of mine are the people on the internet who read a lot of stuff on the internet and then pass it on as truth. You will never catch me passing on someone else's information without qualifying it as such. It will either be my own experience with something, or something quoted by a recognized authority on the subject, such as Chrysler itself.

I've had "debates" with people regarding the differences between the 5.7 and 6.1 Hemis. Too many people believe they're the exact same block except for bore size. I have printed documentation from Mother Mopar that states otherwise, so I will strongly defend their differences. On this wheel issue, I don't have documention, nor will I pursue it further, as I already, personally experienced the difference a few years ago.

Hope you're OK with this. No hard feelings meant or implied...
 
Cuda SRT8 said:
With that said, the new wheels WILL "slide on" the older bolt circle, but it doesn't fit exact, like a wheel SHOULD fit. You can get it to go on and you can bolt it up, but you will be forcing (bending and stressing) the wheel studs to do so when you tighten the lugs.

Brother,I am with you 100% !
I have seen this debate come up time after time. 4.5" is 4.5". Period.
It's not 4.5 and a millimeter,it's 4.5.
You are spot on.
Click to expand...
 
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