Clean radiator, cool engine, coolant PH, flow, fans, shrouds.

-
Autoxcuda, are your SCAs Redline water wetter? What else do you suggest or use besides RO water? What are your results overall?

I have read that Water Wetter and 50/50 cools better than 50/50.

I wondered if Water Wetter was also an SCA type additive.

We are flushing the Jensen (factory 440) this weekend with "DEI Radiator Relief" and tap water, followed with 1 pound of citric acid and 3 gallons of distilled water - running it for 30 minutes, another water run for 30 minutes then 50/50 coolant pre-mix. I will be putting a piece of screen wire over the rad inlet prior to the procedures.


I am adding a Gano Filter pretty soon after.

http://ganofilters.com/index.html


So you are saying RO water is the same, better, or worse than distilled water??

I'm using straight RO water with coolant additives that include SCA's. I'm only at 76 mV electrolysis voltage test.
 
Update on the citric acid flush.

The insides which I could see of the radiator were bright shiny brass.

Upon finishing the flush, I installed a stainless steel screen over the radiator inlet hose in cone shape.

The system turned out great by all appearances but things turned strange after sitting for a week. There was a loose hose clamp which was weeping between the rad and the hose, the fluid coming out formed yellow stalagmites of erroneous alien goop as it dripped. I suspect there was still residual acid or crap in the system so...

I took a look inside the radiator fill neck and the brand new 50/50 fluid had a grey water look to it. So, I pulled the hoses off and reverse flushed the system about 5 more times with tap water, filled and ran for 30 minutes with water, drained and repeated. Finally I filled it with 50/50 pre-mix and it appears to actually be running considerably cooler. We shall see what the future holds. Currently it has a 160 T stat (gotta pull the a/c compressor to switch to 180) but I have the cooling fans set to kick in about 190, so I get a feel for the cooling abilities as it idles and the frequency which the cooling fans operate.

Well, idling with a gentle breeze about 90 degree day and the hood open, the fans rarely kicked on. Totally scientific method of determining cooling improvement...

I took it out on some back roads and rolled it out all the way several times, brought it home and all appears just perfect. When driving it, it runs at quarter gauge, when idling it runs at half gauge. Still to come is the spin on coolant filter kit.
 
Update on citric acid flush for the 440 Jensen. Coolant is very clean and machine still runs very cool. Too cool@! 160 T stat when driving is running too cool at like 1/4 gauge.

Anyway, here is another deal I am trying>
Got a big rad off a low mileage 76 Valiant. Looked great, but seriously calcified / mineralized tubes:
I layed the rad on its face so the water ports face up. I mixed 1/2 lb of citric acid in hot water and poured it in there. Then topped it off with tap water and am letting it sit for about 24 hours. Them balls you see in the rad are moth balls I put in for storage. They floated out when I put the solution in.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0089.jpg
    31.4 KB · Views: 264
  • IMG_0086.jpg
    48.5 KB · Views: 268
  • IMG_0085.jpg
    46.8 KB · Views: 271
  • IMG_0083.JPG
    177 KB · Views: 279
Autoxcuda, are your SCAs Redline water wetter? What else do you suggest or use besides RO water? What are your results overall?

I have read that Water Wetter and 50/50 cools better than 50/50.

I wondered if Water Wetter was also an SCA type additive.

We are flushing the Jensen (factory 440) this weekend with "DEI Radiator Relief" and tap water, followed with 1 pound of citric acid and 3 gallons of distilled water - running it for 30 minutes, another water run for 30 minutes then 50/50 coolant pre-mix. I will be putting a piece of screen wire over the rad inlet prior to the procedures.


I am adding a Gano Filter pretty soon after.

http://ganofilters.com/index.html

I run Justice Brothers Super Radiator Cooler that has SCA's, wetting agents, and resists electrolysis.

Here's a test on radiator additives. The Justice Brothers additive ranked on top.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0703_turp_cooling_system_additives/viewall.html
 
One item of caution I'd like to add to the topic, for those of us using aluminum parts exposed to the coolant. I.E. Heads, Radiators, Intake manifolds etc, I strongly recommend that you avoid using the Extended Life/ Dexcool type coolants in your car. The orange stuff. It is far too acidic & will eat away at the aluminum. I have disassembled engines that were so pitted & eaten away by it that the head gaskets would no longer seal. I know there will be guys saying they have run it w/o problems but I warn you that every trade publication I have read on the topic strongly advises not to use it even in GM cars. GM of course won't admit to it because they would be sued for all of those vehicles that have had the sludge problems clogging the radiators because of it. All of the Japanese car makers, Ford & Chrysler all say it will void your warranty if you use it. Stay away from Dexcool!
 
So, an update on the citric acid soak of my radiator above. 1/2 pound in a gallon of water did not do jack SH*T. It fizzed on the concrete driveway, so I figure it is strong. So, this evening I filled the radiator full of straight muratic acid. I vaguely remember the seller telling me they ran radiator stopleak in it for some reason and I am wondering if stopleak is impenetrable concrete.
 
So, after the mild citric acid soak - fail, I filled rad with swimming pool muratic acid (dont know concentration) but it was straight from bottle (almost a gallon worth). Sat for 48 hours with intermittent sloshing and I dumped it out and back in once too for additional circulation.

I am really happy with the results. 40 dollar radiator and 6 bucks of acid. Yes!

Before and after:
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0097.jpg
    104.9 KB · Views: 233
  • IMG_0098.jpg
    102.6 KB · Views: 227
  • IMG_0086.jpg
    48.5 KB · Views: 290
  • IMG_0085.jpg
    46.8 KB · Views: 272
  • IMG_0083.JPG
    177 KB · Views: 246
  • IMG_0096.jpg
    57.4 KB · Views: 274
I got a 318 ,stock 63 radiator (slant six)7psi cap , 17inch aluminum flex fan,no shroud, small recovery tank,165 t-stat gets warm but never over hot even after taking a long drive and sitting in front of my buddy house taliing for ten mins with it running
 
... for those of us using aluminum parts exposed to the coolant. I.E. Heads, Radiators, Intake manifolds etc, I strongly recommend that you avoid using the Extended Life/ Dexcool type coolants in your car. The orange stuff.
Thanks for that tip. I'll read up. I thought Dexcool was actually better, having perused the label, so I put it in my 02 T&C a few months ago. I changed that radiator just last year and don't want to do that again. I guess I'll drain it now and put the coolant in my slant which doesn't have aluminum except the thick water pump.

One radiator I bought a few years ago came with a warning to insure your car has no stray electrical currents from say a bad engine ground. They claim that can cause an aluminum radiator to corrode thru in less than a week and they aren't responsible. Sounds like the lawyers input, but perhaps possible.
 
Just pour that dex cool type coolant into the nearest recycler's container Bill. I wouldnt put it in any thing ever, based on the literature I have read.
 
Muratic acid can even take chrome off of plated metal, stuff is potent.

Exactly. It worked good on this individual one material type part that was off the car and could be relatively kept under control.

Putting muriatic acid in a running car is taking a lot of chances. There are water pump seals, gaskets of different type materials, metals of different materials, hoses, etc etc... And getting liquid out of the maze of passages inside a motor block and cylinders head is extremely tough.
 
Best to do the process with no thermostat and flush the system back and forward many times then fill / run / drain with tap water about 8 times.

Citric acid rather than muratic for a full system flush considering the exact reasons posted by autoxcuda. Although I have had great results with muratic, the results were on early 70s Oldsmobile engines with the only aluminum components being timing cover and water pump.

I totally agree that any modern or aluminum headed engine, a person should probably not resort to powerful cleaning agents in order to dissolve deposits. Maybe just pull the rad and soak it laying face down rather than an entire system flush with hi-po chemicals.

Yes, regarding removal of potent flush chemicals: in order to get the citric acid flush out of our Jensen 440, I ended up having to back and forward flush it with the hose by force about 5 times and fill / run / drain with the hose water probably 8 more times before it appeared and smelled like there was no acid in there. After about 4 fill / run / drain, I put coolant in there and discovered after a week and a few drives, that it was turning grey (see my previous post) so I did the fill / run / flush several more times, so totaling 8. Never the less, I will be changing the coolant once more in the near future. One major issue with my process on the Jensen is that the thermostat was super difficult to get to, so I left it in during the entire process, making the purging and elimination of leftovers quite difficult.
 
Great thread Rice Nuker, I just got done reading through it in it's entirety. Muriatic acid is wonderful stuff, and I can't even begin to tell you how many motorcycle gas tanks I've saved using it, plus it makes expensive "Rust Dissolve" products look like a joke. It is potent though and will cause serious burns and you don't want to inhale the fumes. Rubber gloves and safety glasses are not an option, but mandatory. I know you know this, but I just thought I'd re-iterate the safety concerns. :)

One point about cooling systems I'd like to discuss is altitude and it's effect on cooling. I believe that altitude is a cooling system double whammy. Not only is the boiling point of water lowered, but believe (can't prove it) that since the density of air is so much less, that there is less air running through a radiator at any given time to dissipate (transfer) heat, whether at speed or at idle regardless of the type of fan used. In regards to boiling points at differing altitudes, check out the chart below:

0' ~ 212 F
1000' ~ 210.2 F
2000' ~ 208.4 F
5000' ~ 203 F This just a bit lower than Denver
6000' ~ 201.1 F This is just a bit lower than Bandimere Dragway
8000' ~ 197.4 F
10,000' ~ 193.6 F This is about where I was when I was Jeeping last week
12,000' ~ 189.8 F About the highest pass in Colorado
14,000' ~ 185.9 F Lower than the highest peak in Colorado
 
Our old Fairlane was parked due to it's previous owner neglecting the cooling (and rusty floor boards). Very well might pull it out of the corner and give the is a try.......Thanks.....
 
I'm thinking I might get some acid and dump it in the freeze plug holes of my bare block sitting on the stand.
 
ramcharger,
well the density of air (due to altitude or other factors) and its ability to conduct and or absorb heat is in my "half assed astronaut" opinion a reasonable concern. It would seem that running at 5000 feet where you have a thinner air and less conductive medium would lessen the efficiency of any atmospheric cooling system. :) . Further discussion seems highly important to the overall success of any and all cooling situations.
 
a quick question regarding the wetting agents. do they raise the boiling temps like coolant? or are they only for providing better wetting capabilities?
 
a quick question regarding the wetting agents. do they raise the boiling temps like coolant? or are they only for providing better wetting capabilities?


They will raise the boiling point some. But I am not sure the exact amount for the Justice Brothers Super Radiator Cooler or the Cooling System Protectant. And it will change directly with mixing ratios.... From high school chemistry, any solution mixed with water will raise the boiling point and the freezing point.

In the 30's they used to put straight alcohol in automobile radiators to keep them from freezing. But the alcohol with evaporate and those systems were not pressurized or sealed.

Antifreeze at 50% ratio only increases the boiling point 11 degrees.

The 15 lbs radiator cap increases the boiling point 45 degrees.

Most importantly, the cooling system uses pressure to raise the boiling point of the coolant. Just like the boiling temperature of water is higher in a pressure cooker, the boiling temperature of coolant/water is higher if you pressurize the system. Most cars have a pressure limit of 14 to 15 pounds per square inch (psi). The radiator pressure cap raises the boiling point another 45 F (25 C) so the coolant can withstand the high temperatures. Your radiator cap does a FOUR TIMES more job at increasing your boiling point than antifreeze!

Remember: A good radiator additive does a lot more than just acting as a wetting agent like anti-corrosion, electrolysis resistance, anti acid, lubrication, thremal conduction... They should remove heat better than antifreeze. Boiling in a pressurized system of water alone is 257 degrees. The object is to remove heat before going into a boiling situation.

Boiling over is a result AFTER everything else went wrong.
 
-
Back
Top