A833 trans alignment issue? Help

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emnestor

emnestor

emnestor
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69 340, 72, Bell Housing, 833 Trans

Changed my clutch and pressure plate to a McCloud (3 finger style) the clutch I had before was a heavy duty racing pressure plate and really was a work out on the street, but everything worked fine. After replacing the clutch I could not get it to release. It just would grind when I tried to put it in gear. I inspected it and saw that the pressure plate was moving and everything else was adjusted fine. However, I was unable to spin the clutch by hand when the pressure was off of it. Something was hanging up the trans shaft into the flywheel. I pulled the Trans and noticed the pilot bushing was a bit beat up. I replaced it, reinstalled the trans and went for a couple relaxing drives. Great!
That same day I went back out to go for another drive and I was back at square one. I am unable to put the car ini gear. The last thing I did was adjust the idle which made the engine dance a bit before she stalled..
Could this movement be making my trans eat up the pilot bushing?
Do I need to mic the bell housing for alignment?

Suggestions? I'm beat up and tired of fighting this trans in and out
 
The thing is, if you didn't change the bell between clutches, it's a non issue for now. That does not mean the bell is properly aligned, it just means that if the old clutch worked, so should the new

Are you using the old bronze sleeve pilot, or the new "Jeep" style which sits out in the converter bore? Maybe the disk is hitting?

What exactly did you change? Same throwout bearing casing? How does the t/o sit on the new clutch fingers?

How about pilot? Maybe seized on the input shaft, etc?
 
I don't believe a bad pilot bushing would cause the problem you're describing. When the clutch is disengaged, the input shaft and the crankshaft are rotating at different speeds. The pilot bushing's main function is to allow for this difference in rotational speeds. This is why a faulty pilot bushing makes its most noise when the pedal is depressed and clutch is disengaged.

I not trying to insult your intelligence, but let’s run through the basics to help isolate the problem. When your clutch pedal is depressed, the clutch linkage moves the clutch fork to press the throw out bearing into the pressure plate. This movement releases the pressure from the clutch disc so that the clutch disc spins freely. When you release the clutch pedal the pressure plate sandwiches the clutch disc against the flywheel and now the engine is spinning the input shaft of the transmission.

Assuming this is not a trans or shift linkage problem, then the problem is somewhere in the clutch linkage (mechanical clutch), clutch adjustment/adjustment rod, clutch fork, clutch fork bracket (inside bellhousing), throw out bearing, or pressure plate.

The problem started after you changed the clutch disc/pressure plate. Possible problem areas: Throw out bearing is bad (did you replace it?), bent fork bracket, bent fork, bent adjustment rod, misadjusted clutch rod? Maybe it is the new pressure plate?

I don’t know what style bell housing you have, but if it’s possible to remove an inspection cover and fork boot and look inside while a helper works the clutch you can inspect for the proper movement.

Hope this helps.
 
A tight/ damaged pilot bushing/ shaft can most CERTAINLY cause this, and in fact there was a member on here who recently experienced this.

A misaligned/ tight pilot will "try" (and does) grab the input shaft and keep it turning.
 
Everything has been replaced ie..... Rod, clutch, pressure plate, bushing etc.....
The first time I pulled it I did so because while under the car my assistant pressed the clutch pedal and in fact it had proper movement. However I could not move the clutch freely. When I pulled it back out I noticed the pilot bushing had mushroomed on the end slightly so I yanked it. While I had it in my hand I slid it onto the trans shaft and in fact it was grabbing and there were some scores on the bushing out side to indicate it was spinning inside the flywheel. Ok, great problem solved. I installed the new bushing and everything worked perfect. Went on several drives. Later that evening it returned to the prior behavior.
 
67Dart273 said:
A tight/ damaged pilot bushing/ shaft can most CERTAINLY cause this, and in fact there was a member on here who recently experienced this.

A misaligned/ tight pilot will "try" (and does) grab the input shaft and keep it turning.
Click to expand...

Are you saying he installed the pilot bushing incorrectly because the problem didn't exist until after he replaced the clutch/pressure plate and bushing? Bushing cocked? Grease on input shaft/bushing? Again... just trying to help.
 
All it would take (just pulling out of the air) would be a little dirt/ grit/ damage to the bushing bore, something that would compress the bushing enough to make it tight on the shaft. In this day and age of Chinendiaese parts, it's even not far fetched that the bushing was manufactured wrong. All I'm saying is this is possible and has happened. There was a recent discussion not very far back here.

But let's don't focus...............check EVERYTHING. I only mentioned it as a possibility.

Did you have the bell off? If so, are you sure it's bolted back up tight?

You sure the gearbox was clean on the mount face and bolted up tight?

You simply have to use your head, the process of checking and elimination. Do not rule anything out until you've PROVED it's ruled out.

I once put a 'Vett 10.5" diaphragm behind a 340, and THAT is a long story. I must'a had that thing in and out 4-5 times could NOT get it to release. Finally sent it into a (then) local rebuilder in Spokane, who could test the release on their press.............the PP was defective, plain and simple.
 
Unless that bellhousing was the numbers matching one for that engine block, it should be checked for runout. Max allowable is .005" IIRC. Any more and you may experience engagement/disengagement/shifting issues. You also may be just fine. But - it will depend on the clutch and the transmission. You had a clutch that worked. You replaced it. How easy did the trans come out and go in? Any chance the input shaft got pressure on it? Enough to bend or hurt the input bearing?
In this case, because it cleaned up with a new pilot bushing - I'd look very hard a tthe input shaft and bearing and I'd defintely check the bell alignment.
 
It is def in the correct way so it's not hitting.

Update
Found an assistant to work the pedal as I was underneath. First time I was able to spin the clutch about half way around and it hung up. I had them take pressure off the clutch and then press it again. I was then able to spin it about 1/2 way again. Just for giggles I adjusted a little more distance into the clutch rod and it then was able to spin freely. I started the car and it bound up again and was not able to put it in gear.

Bushing. The old bushing was left in when I swapped everything. When I removed the tranny after having this binding problem I noticed a bit chipped off the bushing and noticed that it was not installed flush. It was def catching the tranny shaft. I installed a new brass one and did a good job of it and made sure it was installed flush.

Bell housing. I did remove the bell housing and torqued it to spec
 
I did put a minimal amount of grease. Just rub with the finger inside the bushing.

The first time, before replacing the bushing, the trans was hard as hell to get in. After replacing the bushing it went in much easier this time

I guess I'm going to have to check the run out. Ugh!!! I am worn out from pulling this tranny
 
I once had a pin break on a McLeod clutch and an issue of not releasing. sounds a little different from yours but worth checking. There are three pins in the pressure plate and they are the pivot point for each of the three fingers. The telltale sign that this was broken was one of the clutch fingers was higher than the rest.

Also you should use the pilot bearing assembly from a Magnum truck engine instead of the pilot bushing.
 
Quick question.....
When I install this trans it goes in pretty smooth until the last 3/8 of an inch where the shaft housing has to fit into the hole in the bell housing. I have to use the trans bolts to suck it in. It fits but it's snug. Is this normal?
Folks tell me it should slide right in. If this is the wrong bell housing it's only off by a couple thousandths. Any opinions?
 
emnestor said:
Quick question.....
When I install this trans it goes in pretty smooth until the last 3/8 of an inch where the shaft housing has to fit into the hole in the bell housing. I have to use the trans bolts to suck it in. It fits but it's snug. Is this normal?
Folks tell me it should slide right in. If this is the wrong bell housing it's only off by a couple thousandths. Any opinions?
Click to expand...

Mine was "snug" but not overly tight. I bought some bolts the same thread/diameter as my trans bolts only slightly longer. I cut the heads off and hand threaded them into the bell housing before I installed the trans. They act like guide pins and help keep everything straight and aligned, so there is no binding.
 
I had the same issue with tranny not going in all the way last winter. On advice from guys here, I rigged a strap up to apply pressure to clutch fork so the disk was not clamped against the flywheel by the preasure plate. Transmission slid right in.

Also did as Demon 408 with the guide pins. This worked great also.
 
There is no reason why you should have to pull the tranny in place into the bellhousing bore. Take some light sandpaper and clean any paint or crap off the inside of the bore and the outside of the front bearing retainer. If you have to force anything - something's wrong. I have some longer bolts I cut the heads off to use as alignment pins that are 3" long so it just slides into place. Put the trans in gear and use a slip yoke to rotate the output shaft while you slide it in and it should pop right in. But - before all that - align the bellhousing properly and don;t use the MP dowels. Use the Robb MC package.
 
I checked the radial and axial runout on a SB bellhousing that I'm bolting to a 6.1 L hemi.
It was way off the max specs.
My advice - ALWAYS check the alignment.
 

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It's the same bell housing and he got it working temorarily by the pilot changes.
Use crokus cloth and polish the heck out of the input shaft and use a well greased needle bearing pilot.
It will drop right in and be golden.

For whatever reason this is a pilot issue, and that last little bit pulled in with the bolts pretty much proves it.
The flared edge of the bushing just proves it again.
Pulling the clutch a little on assembly only lets the disc align if it's off center and has nothing really to do with the pilot.
 
I finaly fixed this issue. I removed the trans, again, and started taking some measurements. what I found was that the pilot bushing need to be installed deeper than flush as the FSM said to do. Once I installed another bushing deeper in the Trans slid right in and is working fine. It seems that if the pilot Bushing is mounted flush as called for in the FSM it still is making contact with the taper on the input shaft. I find this strange but that was the issue. Run out was checked as well and was in narmal range.
I did order a needle bearing type bushing and thought of installing it, however the taper would have been even more of an issue. I did not want to try modifying the input shaft like it says to in the bushing instructions. Anyway, Ive been enjoying some nice drive time.
 
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