A body sports car handling

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younggun2.0 said:
the lower control arm stiffening plates are also a worth while addition. they unitize the control arm and help limit deflection.

I think it is AR engineering that sells them for like $25
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those are nice, also easy to make out of flat plate, but no quite as good looking as those
 
For the rear I would get the longest shackles you can get. Like those redneck ones people used to have in the 70's, combine those with 2 slant 6 leaf spring pack. You probably want to break the clamps off them. Next make certain you bang on your ball joints good with a 8 lbs hammer before installing them. Also you want to soak all the bushings in paint stripper over night, than install them loosely. Sway bars are extra weight, same with things like seat belts, so toss that junk. Install everything, except what you don't install, and use a lot of Armour All on your seats. This way it feels like your going like a bat outta hell when you drive, but actually you be within the speed limit.
Sorry dude, sounds like you need a size up from stock on the sway bar front, and rear, and a rebuild with some poly graphite bushings, and that car will come to life. Ferrari used to use torsion bars too, it'll be fine.
 
replicaracer43 said:
Absolutly false.... a suspension rebuild, with decent parts, a slight bar rate increase and a decent front sway bar and modern rubber, and these cars will handle as good as anything with comparable weight.. There are some guys who think you need to spend 9K on a aftermarket suspension to handle....
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If you honestly believe that I can't believe you've never pushed either type to or beyond it's limits. I'll put my '97 completely stock suspension Neon up against anything someone cares to throw in with a similar power to weight ratio and prove that wrong. I've built road cars out of old cars. You can make them better. You can't make them equal to a modern car.
 
moper said:
If you honestly believe that I can't believe you've never pushed either type to or beyond it's limits. I'll put my '97 completely stock suspension Neon up against anything someone cares to throw in with a similar power to weight ratio and prove that wrong. I've built road cars out of old cars. You can make them better. You can't make them equal to a modern car.
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Well, I appreciate your input, but your neon isn't relevant to the OP discussion... he wants his A body to have sportscar handling, and it is very doable, with simple upgrades. In fact it has been done numerous times..Saying you cant make a A body equal to a modern car in terms of handling, is just not accurate at all..There are cars right on this site, that prove these 40 plus year old suspension designs can still kick butt on the racetrack..we got roadracers, scca/auto X, guys, and I have a A body asphalt racecar right in my shop, that holds the CURRENT track record at the worlds FASTEST 1/2 mile tri-oval.....torsion bars and leafs.... they CAN and DO work....
 
The reason you can't buy a Mopar "MonteCarlo" bar is that Mopars are much stronger in the front end than Mustangs (almost nothing from Detroit in the 60s was flimsier than a first-gen Mustang). Now, when every little detail counts, sure it's not a bad idea, but it's not necessary in most cases like it is on a handling Mustang.
 
When we write on these forums, there's a lot of thinking that can't be done as well as when you've got hour to think about it. We snap to answer things.
I'm going to say that a monte carlo bar might actually help in a mopar, but not like in a unit body gm, or ford, and it has nothing to do with who welded what how. The coil spring on a chevy, or ford goes up toward the shock tower, make it have a higher center of gravity. Where is that spring in you Mo-Pig, in the lower control arm. So a monte carlo bar is another reinforcement point, and that's never bad, but it's limited in it's need. Reinforcement under the radiator, and from the shock tower to the firewall begins to make sense now.
 
garyfish340 said:
When we write on these forums, there's a lot of thinking that can't be done as well as when you've got hour to think about it. We snap to answer things.
I'm going to say that a monte carlo bar might actually help in a mopar, but not like in a unit body gm, or ford, and it has nothing to do with who welded what how. The coil spring on a chevy, or ford goes up toward the shock tower, make it have a higher center of gravity. Where is that spring in you Mo-Pig, in the lower control arm. So a monte carlo bar is another reinforcement point, and that's never bad, but it's limited in it's need. Reinforcement under the radiator, and from the shock tower to the firewall begins to make sense now.
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no doubt a tubular lower radiator support will help keep things from moving, but a reinforced k member will do the same thing. again all the force is low on a t bar suspension, the pivot pins, strut rods. hence the reason to weld up the k member, make sure the pin area is tight, bushings are good.

think about it, when you have the pivot pin, LCA and t bar all in a line, with a strut rod triangulating the system, that is STRONG. on a strength issue i think poly bushings, adjustable HD strut rods, and a good strong LCA bushing is what is needed.
 
Hey..nice control arms! my old, old pic.. lol those very same ones are for sale as well. check out my ad in the for sale section. :)
 
I would like to ask, whether this post might of had been titled incorrectly. Not to insult anybody, but if you need to question how to make a suspension more efficient, are you really ready to be doing massively illegal driving on the street. I think I would tune what you have, and get used to it first. If you've seen the Hotchkis challenger, and you've been around awhile, you'd know they didn't invent the wheel or anything else. They only conglomerated ideas into a package that guys have been using for years. The materials are better, but the way people used to build these cars is no different today than 30 years ago. Look up Dan Gurney.
Once you get your dancing shoes shining, than modify it more as you grow with it. It's like going from a go-cart to indy. If you learn to suspension, you will truly learn the suspension grasshopper.
 
Reinforcement, reinforcement, reinforcement, can you go wrong. One inch of arch weld bead is the same as a 5/8" bolt if you got the steel.
 
Now if you look under my avatar at my photo you'll notice the low center of gravity, but the lack of reinforcement.
 
Sorry dude, but the rear axle on a regular neon is the biggest piece of crap ever. Nothing like an SRT neon. I know someone who just beat up on a BMW z3 in autocross. A neon.
 
garyfish340 said:
I would like to ask, whether this post might of had been titled incorrectly. Not to insult anybody, but if you need to question how to make a suspension more efficient, are you really ready to be doing massively illegal driving on the street. I think I would tune what you have, and get used to it first. If you've seen the Hotchkis challenger, and you've been around awhile, you'd know they didn't invent the wheel or anything else. They only conglomerated ideas into a package that guys have been using for years. The materials are better, but the way people used to build these cars is no different today than 30 years ago. Look up Dan Gurney.
Once you get your dancing shoes shining, than modify it more as you grow with it. It's like going from a go-cart to indy. If you learn to suspension, you will truly learn the suspension grasshopper.
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your right a stock suspension can do alot, but you also have to consider most people have never driven a completly rebuilt (rubber or poly) suspension, let alone upgraded. its not cheap and unless its not wandering most people leave it. i have alot of suspension types ive worked and tuned on, and am going for it on my swinger.

as far as massivly illegal driving, what about having to make that split reaction to avoid an accident? stock rebuilt or not, with 215's and loose overdriven power steering and your going to understeer like a ****. correct ride height, modern tires, better shocks, brakes. these are all safety items... do they help carve corners, yes, is that 99% there purpose? yes... but there is more than one way to cut a cake.

garyfish340 said:
Reinforcement, reinforcement, reinforcement, can you go wrong. One inch of arch weld bead is the same as a 5/8" bolt if you got the steel.
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i agree, but not everyone can weld, and not everyone can weld good enough to be safe...

garyfish340 said:
Now if you look under my avatar at my photo you'll notice the low center of gravity, but the lack of reinforcement.
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LOL i think thats a lack of alot more than reinforcement, more like proper living conditions!
 
I have never had money, and always had a used car. 1st things 1st, brakes, do them. 2nd completely inspect the suspension. they don't always need complete replacing. A great suspension will beat, a bad *** engine everyday, especially when you are on the road, and he's in a field. sway bars are important/ with good bushings. Make certain the idler arm is not sloppy, check the pitman for play. check the tie rod ends, inspect the upper bushing for dry rot ( use a mirror if you have to ) rock the wheels around, is there slop in the ball joints. You probably won't need to replace everything.
One thing you'll learn in racing is, if there is a wreck in front of you, ignore the wreck, and search for the whole. You're eyes will force your hands to steer you to the opening your mind sees. It's a defense mechanism you're born with. If you choose to take judgement time, you will find judgement time. Sorry
 
Somebody please chime in here. There a book called something like " The history of the Plymouth Barracuda". It has a black cover with a red 1970 383 cuda barreling through a turn. It's full of magazine test, and reviews from the 60's- and 70's. If you find it, read about the 69 barracuda. It shows the attitude of degrees it leans through a slalom at 60 mph. It's in a few different road test. The results are about 3 degrees more than a 2008 SRT 8 challenger. That's with bias ply tires, and whimpy sway bars. It shows how many G's the car will handle before losing the rear end. I believe it states that it's 79 G's, and the SRT 8 is 83 G's. Somebody here must have the book, and know the exact figures. There's nothing a Dodge/ Plymouth A body can't do that a new car can, by simple, and cheap updating. But, the windows will rattle, the truck lid will smack the body, and it'll ride like **** for everyday use. It just doesn't have the amount of sound insulation, and epoxied fixtures, and plastic junk that makes today's car weigh in at 4000 lbs. That's why when you drive a new car it so easy to do 100, and in an old car your sense of motion is so acute. All of this is the charm of an old car. sometimes it feels like you are flying a bullet ridden B29 bomber back from a bombing run over Europe. Speaking for myself, my opinion is mass produced automobiles are going to be made like crap. If you ever tore one apart you'd wonder where you got the guts to drive it. Just cut off a 1/4 panel, no the skin, the whole panel. It's no more than a type of corrugated cardboard box, except it's mostly sheet metal. That said, you car turn it into the best it can be.It doesn't matter what people say. There's no sense in modifying a suspension, that you can't afford to rebuild in the first place. That's just dangerous. At the same time nobody has the right to tell you that you haven't the right to own a car because you can't afford too. If it didn't excite you, you wouldn't inquire on how to better it. If the car bug is in you, there's no better motivation to make the impossible, possible, you'll find a way. Good luck bud.
 
I had my control arms boxed as well. Dick Ross said it's a must with a big front sway bar. Here's pics before and after powder coating.
 

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Wish there was a way to swap in a 73+ K memebr into an early A body. Is it the track width that is the deal breaker? Luckily a guy can at least put like a Borgeson steering box into one though.
 
It's the width of everything. The late A's have wider bodies and wider frames. The is, however, no reason that spool mount saddles cannot be cut off and welded to an early member. The trick would be getting them in the right place. Same thing with getting a bracket for the late idler arm. Nothing else is an issue.
 
So much good info in this thread. I am also adding lots of Firm Feel and misc handling parts on my duster. I got weld in subframes from seymour_scamp. 1x3" tube leaves plenty of room between subframes and floor board for factory lines and is flush with rest of frame:
 

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Rice Nuker said:
So much good info in this thread. I am also adding lots of Firm Feel and misc handling parts on my duster. I got weld in subframes from seymour_scamp. 1x3" tube leaves plenty of room between subframes and floor board for factory lines and is flush with rest of frame:
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I did the same type connectors on my car, but mines not on road ready yet. What kind of differences do you notice after you did this modifications?
 
On the cars that I did sub frame connectors, less rattles, can open the door even if jacked on one corner. Before if I opened the door, when jacked on one corner, then could not close until car was level again.
 
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