First 318 build, cam question

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72swingerVA

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I'm doing my first build, and I'd like some advice. The car is a stock '72 Swinger with a 318 2bbl (not running), 904 trans, power steering, power brakes (front disks), and I believe the rear is a 7 1/4" with a 2.76 gear, but I need to double-check it. I have an old 600cfm Edelbrock 1406, matching air cleaner, and a new Edelbrock Performer intake that will be installed on the engine. I will probably install headers and full dual exhaust, but not until after I get the car running again. I don't know if/when I'll get around to doing any head work or changing the rear differential (I'm planning to do as much as possible myself, and I'm just an amateur with hand tools and a garage). The goal is to make a fun, reliable driver that keeps the power accessories - I'm not planning to race or show this car.

I was looking at cams, and saw the recommended one for this combo is the Edelbrock Performer 2177 (http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/2177/10002/-1) with .420/.420 lift and 270/270 advertised duration. There were others that say they work in roughly the same RPM range that advertise noticeably more lift, and several were dual-pattern, like this one from Comp (http://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/249/CL20-221-3/10002/-1) with .447/.455 lift and 256/268 duration. That Comp cam (and a couple others) are also available as full kits with timing chain, gears, and valvetrain pieces - I was thinking about getting it all at once to really freshen up the engine but without getting into the bottom end or trying to port the heads at home. So given the air flow restrictions, highway gears, and keeping PS/PB, how much cam is too much? Recommendations are welcome and appreciated - thanks in advance
 
Put this in it.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k6901/overview/make/dodge

Nice grind. Pulls hard, idles good, has a noticeable bump, smokes tires. PanGasket will be along and chime in. He has that cam in the 318 in his truck. He's very happy with it. No need to spend a lot of unnecessary money for a brand name. You till need the matching valve springs, though.
 
I ran that cam in a 318 I bought. It was supposed to be a 9.5:1 motor with '75 360 heads. Turned out to be a 7.5:1 motor, did have '75 360 heads that I did a minor gasket match and bowl work to, an eddy air-gap intake, holley 3310, locked out dist, in a 3650 lb duster (me included) and 3.91s. It ran ok, never tuned it and ran 14.70 at 92ish MPH the only day I took it to the track. Idled at like 700 rpm and knocked down I think 18+ mpg. really wish I would have thrown the nitrous kit on that motor
 
72swingerVA said:
The car is a stock '72 Swinger with a 318 2bbl (not running), 904 trans, power steering, power brakes (front disks), and I believe the rear is a 7 1/4" with a 2.76 gear, but I need to double-check it. I have an old 600cfm Edelbrock 1406, matching air cleaner, and a new Edelbrock Performer intake that will be installed on the engine. I will probably install headers and full dual exhaust, but not until after I get the car running again. I don't know if/when I'll get around to doing any head work or changing the rear differential (I'm planning to do as much as possible myself, and I'm just an amateur with hand tools and a garage). The goal is to make a fun, reliable driver that keeps the power accessories - I'm not planning to race or show this car.

I was looking at cams, and saw the recommended one for this combo is the Edelbrock Performer 2177 (http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/2177/10002/-1) with .420/.420 lift and 270/270 advertised duration.
Click to expand...

I ran this same cam/intake/exhaust/rear gear combo in my 74 swinger about 15 years ago and was able to pull high 14's at the track with it. That Edelbrock cam is very mild but makes good torque which is what you'll need if you plan on keeping those 2.76 gears.
 
The Edelbrock #2177 is a good choice for your combination.

A Good Low-End Torque 'Bumpstick'.

Lift....................... .420"
Duration................ 270*
Duration @ .050".... 204*
Lobe Separation......110*
Intake Center-Line...106*

Since you have Power Brakes {vacuum}, you don't want to go to radical on the Camshaft.

Since this Camshaft has a 'Torque Peak' @ 4000 RPM, you may even be able to get away
with the Stock Valve Springs, as you said you didn't want to pull the Cylinder Heads yet.

With a 318 with a 9.0-1 Compression Ratio, #904 Automatic and Stock Converter, and 2.76 Gears,
this Camshaft is probably the best 'Budget Choice'.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Put this in it.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k6901/overview/make/dodge

Nice grind. Pulls hard, idles good, has a noticeable bump, smokes tires. PanGasket will be along and chime in. He has that cam in the 318 in his truck. He's very happy with it. No need to spend a lot of unnecessary money for a brand name. You till need the matching valve springs, though.
Click to expand...


Yep, I do have that same exact cam in my truck and you would absolutely love it. Its got great street manners, and even with a 727 backing it and 29" tires, it'll spin the rubber off. I stopped one night at the bait store up the road because I didn't close my hood one day. I decided I'd do a hard launch out of the parking lot, it turned into a smokey burnout flying down the road. Its also got a nice lump to it. You would really really like it. Trust me, don't do any headwork if it doesn't need it. Also, see if you can rummage a near by yard and find a set of heads the hardened valve seats if your car does not have the. You will be quite happy with the cam I have with unported heads and a set of headers
 
Love the K6901 Summit cam. Seen it ,in a few 318/340/360 build ups. Great street able grind.
 
Is run the Comp cam with those Hwy. gears. If you run the cam Rusty listed, run 3.21/3.23 gears. (Been there done that.)
 
With 2.76 Gears and Power-Brakes

The Edelbrock #2177 will work with the 'stock' Valve Springs {#178 lbs. @ Valve Open},
as the .420" Lift fits within that range.

If you step up to the Compu-Cams #XE-256H {.447"/.455" Lift}, that Camshaft is equivalent
to a 1968 '340' Stock-type Camshaft.

You will need 'stiffer' Valve Springs {ie; Stock 340 with a Load-Rate of #240 lbs. Valve Open}.

And, it works best with 3.23 Gears, not 2.76 'Long-Haul Road Boys'.
 
Thanks all, that's what I needed to know - I think I'll start with the 2177 cam for now, see how it goes, then maybe upgrade more later. This car will need a lot of work before it's safe and reliable again, trying to do just one area at a time and keep the workload manageable.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Put this in it.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k6901/overview/make/dodge

Nice grind. Pulls hard, idles good, has a noticeable bump, smokes tires. PanGasket will be along and chime in. He has that cam in the 318 in his truck. He's very happy with it. No need to spend a lot of unnecessary money for a brand name. You till need the matching valve springs, though.
Click to expand...

I've been lurking in head/cam posts gathering info for my 318 engine upgrade. I'm liking the Summit cam for the reasons listed + the price. Because of the higher lift, can I use stock valve springs or will I need something better?
 
I would recommend some stock OEM style 340 valve springs. RustyRatRod,knows the Comp drop in spring for small blocks,maybe he will chime in.
 
Yup. 901-16. I would run new springs even with a new stock cam.
 
Comp does NOT have a "Drop in spring" for any MoPar period.
Crane cams do.
Comps need machine work on the head before use.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Comp does NOT have a "Drop in spring" for any MoPar period.
Crane cams do.
Comps need machine work on the head before use.
Click to expand...

On the page for the SUM-K6901 cam, Summit recommend these Crane springs.

Crane Cams 99835-16
Valve Springs, Single, 1.500 in. Outside Diameter, 412 lbs./in. Rate, 1.000 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16

$136.00

Comments? Opinions?
 
RogerK said:
On the page for the SUM-K6901 cam, Summit recommend these Crane springs.

Crane Cams 99835-16
Valve Springs, Single, 1.500 in. Outside Diameter, 412 lbs./in. Rate, 1.000 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16

$136.00

Comments? Opinions?
Click to expand...
I have those on my engine. They are springy. :toothy10: I had my machinist install them anyhow because he disassembled my heads after pressure testing. They work and do their job. I have that K6901 cam and the matching lifters and factory pushrods. Springs are on a set of '79 318 smog heads with bronze valve guides on a '73 318 block. It doesn't mind pulling to 4k at all or 5k.
 
PanGasket said:
I have those on my engine. They are springy. :toothy10: I had my machinist install them anyhow because he disassembled my heads after pressure testing. They work and do their job. I have that K6901 cam and the matching lifters and factory pushrods. Springs are on a set of '79 318 smog heads with bronze valve guides on a '73 318 block. It doesn't mind pulling to 4k at all or 5k. All the info I probably gave is useless though. My engine is just a truck motor.
Click to expand...


No, no. All good info as my 318 is also a truck motor. :D My only issue with them is the cost. the Comp Cams springs are in the $60.00 range, but if added machine work on the heads is needed the cost is offset.

My apologies to 72SwingerVA for hijacking his thread. It sounds like this info may help him too.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Comp does NOT have a "Drop in spring" for any MoPar period.
Crane cams do.
Comps need machine work on the head before use.
Click to expand...

Sorry bud, but the 901-16 is a drop in spring. I don't know where you got your info, but it's wrong. I have used them with zero mods several times. Their big block counter part is the 911-16. No head mods whatsoever with either spring. Look it up on the Comp site. No footnotes whatsoever. They drop in perfectly.
 
currently have a set of the comp 901 on set of J heads on 73 duster....put them on myself..single spring..no machining required...

the stock 340 replacement spring is P4120249...only problem..they are almost 150 bucks for a set...stupid price...
 
70aarcuda said:
currently have a set of the comp 901 on set of J heads on 73 duster....put them on myself..single spring..no machining required...

the stock 340 replacement spring is P4120249...only problem..they are almost 150 bucks for a set...stupid price...
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
LOL on Summit recommending Crane springs for the 6901. If I've done my research right, the cam is a re-boxed Crane Fireball. I have it in my Demon (68 318, 302 heads, Performer, 625 cfm AFB, 904, stock exh manifolds, 2¼" pipes, Dynomax mufflers). I used a set of 340 springs I got off of e-Bag in the engine build. Starts easy runs, runs well, pulls 2.92 gears on a 7¼" open rear end well. I haven't track tested because I don't trust the rear end. On the basis of a little street driving I've done, I'd recommend the 6901 cam.

The build design calls for a 3.55:1 rear. I have most of the 8.75 SG parts but need to finish a couple of projects before I start another.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Sorry bud, but the 901-16 is a drop in spring. I don't know where you got your info, but it's wrong. I have used them with zero mods several times. Their big block counter part is the 911-16. No head mods whatsoever with either spring. Look it up on the Comp site. No footnotes whatsoever. They drop in perfectly.
Click to expand...

Good to know and Summit lists them for $62.97. Reasonable.
 
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