NEW THREAD-Why we don't finish........

OK, this is a hard pill to swallow for most of us. But think about this a second; when you go to a car show, what do you see? One or two cars you could eat off, where the paint isn't even burned off the headers yet.But the majority have some paint chips, maybe even faded paint, dirty undersides, greasy suspension...well, you know. Now, when we are in the middle of our project, we close our eyes and picture the former cars, and move forward with that in mind on our Rather Large Rotisserie Chicken, and hence, it spends way more time in the build than would be necessary to get it on the road. Case in point; maybe your interior sucks, so you add that to the list and gut it, not taking into consideration that you could drive it to the shows all summer, and work the interior in the 'off-season'...if you get my drift. What I mean is, we start out walking around the block and wind up walking into the next county in our quest to have the 'perfect' resto or machine, rather than getting on the 'Drive and Wrench' program. Now, I'm not suggesting anyone sell their car or themselves short, only that you can do some restos in chunks while still enjoying the fruits of your labors.

Captainkirk, it's all about setting realistic goals and expectations, perfect is the enemy of the good. Especially with these old cars, not only are you fighting an uphill battle with factory "crapsmanship", your chasing a unicorn if you think its gonna be Disney channel love story perfect.

Personally even if I could I wouldn't want it, too much stress keeping an eye on it and rubbing it with a diaper. Lame. Cars are meant to be driven, you can't see a small dent, paint chip, or run when it's hauling *** down the road, passing you like your standing still.

And since when should you care what other people think? If you come across a joker ripping on you for your choices, ask them to put up the bucks to make it their idea of what it should be, I bet he/she shuts up real quick.

i think unrealistic expectations are the silent killer for most car projects.

we cant all have 10 second drag/show/corner carvers with nice paint and mint interior.

EMBRACE THE BEATER! thats my new motto. i would rather drive a joe dirt pile of rust than have a show car project parked in my garage.

340duster340 said:

EMBRACE THE BEATER!

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OK; not so sure I'd go THAT far...LOL! But I would certainly advise against ripping a car into bits and pieces unless you know for sure you are up to the task. And, as was mentioned early on in this thread, plan on 2-3X the time and cost you think it will involve.

Interesting topic for a thread and so appropriately placed here in FABO!

But I'm surprised...really amazed that nobody had cited beer as a hindrance to project completion. I mean, I totally get the concept of car-guy "zen" where the perfect day is 75 degrees, low humidity, working on your mopar with the garage door up, the radio playing all the right music, and a cooler full of cold ones. But all too often, that cooler full of cold ones ends up slowing work. On it's own, it is a known decelerator but it also encourages the envious neighbor to drop by to drink one with you further thwarting progress, and can sometimes redirect the projecteer toward unrelated tasks like polishing a rusty vise-grip or re-organizing the tool chest.

Yeah, I nominate beer as number one project killer!

Teeth & Tires said:

Interesting topic for a thread and so appropriately placed here in FABO!

But I'm surprised...really amazed that nobody had cited beer as a hindrance to project completion. I mean, I totally get the concept of car-guy "zen" where the perfect day is 75 degrees, low humidity, working on your mopar with the garage door up, the radio playing all the right music, and a cooler full of cold ones. But all too often, that cooler full of cold ones ends up slowing work. On it's own, it is a known decelerator but it also encourages the envious neighbor to drop by to drink one with you further thwarting progress, and can sometimes redirect the projecteer toward unrelated tasks like polishing a rusty vise-grip or re-organizing the tool chest.

Yeah, I nominate beer as number one project killer!

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But only if friends and neighbors are involved.

This is a great thread! Most of this I knew but it's good to read it. I'm always thinking beyond my wallet. It's so easy to do these days. The amount of parts available these days are mind blowing. You can build anything you can think up of. That's why I'm going to "TRY" to stop switching projects and stick with my Dart. Build it the way I want but being realist about money.

As far as beer slowing down a project. I never had that problem because my friend's brother would drink all the beer while telling us how to work on the car.

No, I mean a REAL game plan....preferably on paper.
No, I'm not kidding. Having a step-by-step game plan, accompanied by a check list, is not such a nutso idea.
Many's the time I finished what I set out to do...and then stood there scratching my *** trying to figure out what to do next.
This time around, I'm writing it down. It's helped immensely for staying ON TRACK for what I've set out to do. And the list can be altered or added to as you go. Plus, it allows long-term planning, for those BIG projects (like mine) I've divided mine into 'phases'......for example, Phase One will be completed when my body is completely painted, undercoated, and ready for suspension to go back on. What's beyond that is not my immediate focus now. But cutting it up into smaller bites is what makes it manageable for me.

Can we add, "the paint didn't match"? My project just hit a delay until I can get some better matching R6

Yes, we can add that, I s'pose....I would consider the wrong paint your "prime coat" and rock on!

Captainkirk said:

OK, this is a hard pill to swallow for most of us. But think about this a second; when you go to a car show, what do you see? One or two cars you could eat off, where the paint isn't even burned off the headers yet.But the majority have some paint chips, maybe even faded paint, dirty undersides, greasy suspension...well, you know. Now, when we are in the middle of our project, we close our eyes and picture the former cars, and move forward with that in mind on our Rather Large Rotisserie Chicken, and hence, it spends way more time in the build than would be necessary to get it on the road. Case in point; maybe your interior sucks, so you add that to the list and gut it, not taking into consideration that you could drive it to the shows all summer, and work the interior in the 'off-season'...if you get my drift. What I mean is, we start out walking around the block and wind up walking into the next county in our quest to have the 'perfect' resto or machine, rather than getting on the 'Drive and Wrench' program. Now, I'm not suggesting anyone sell their car or themselves short, only that you can do some restos in chunks while still enjoying the fruits of your labors.

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I've only done 2 cars so far and am working on my third, but I've found that the following approach works for me.

Original purchase : buy a car that already runs or can easily be made roadworthy. Then it doesn't sit in a garage gathering dust or outside rusting away. You can enjoy the car right away and get a "base-line" from which to start.

Design phase : determine exactly the result you want. In this case most time Discuss it with any partners you may have with the project (in my case, my son). This stage can involve lots of internet research on the internet, as was my case. My son and I wanted to modify the original slant-6 engine and Australia offers a better supply of off-the-shelf performance parts for this engine than is available in America. Studying fora, such as this one, also provides useful insights and inspiration.

Start purchasing the parts : I started my first project when I didn't have much money so I purchased parts as I could afford them and built an inventory. In my case I had a running car and the replacement parts I wanted so the jobs could be broken up into discrete steps and a resonable time budget established, which I always doubled.

"I get by with a little help from my friends" : I didn't do all the work on my car, such as the body preparation and paint, the installation of the suspension (I don't trust my welds), and the interior work, which was done by a professional saddler. Determine what work you want to outsource and find a capable, reliable vendor/service provider for these tasks.

Also, there will be moments where one must take two steps back to go one step forward ; even with the best planning.

As one nears the end of the project, one will need a whole slew of mostly minor parts that we're not originally foreseen ; cables, linkages, fastners, emblems, etc. Budget for these, even if it's only $ 200 (or € or £) a month.

One fine day the car is finished, but it's by no means ready. Just as major automakers subject prototypes to extensive testing, expect to do the same. Problems, whether big or small will only emerge through use, though a technical inspection, if this is required by law in the jurisdiction where one lives, can provide helpful guidance. Again, expect to budget a bigger amount to attend to any issues or problems that may arise as a result of such testing.

More than anything else, project planning is a matter of managing expectations ; one's own expectations.

Well-said!

In my own defense, I'll have to admit I knew how big of a project I was gonna be getting into....because I knew what was/wasn't acceptable to myself. Probably one of the reasons I procrastinated so long. I knew, like a downhill ski run, once you get started you gotta keep going or wipe out. I was reluctant to start without the funding I needed, but eventually figured it's better to run out of gas halfway through the trip than to never start.

Captainkirk said:

OK, this is a hard pill to swallow for most of us. But think about this a second; when you go to a car show, what do you see? One or two cars you could eat off, where the paint isn't even burned off the headers yet.But the majority have some paint chips, maybe even faded paint, dirty undersides, greasy suspension...well, you know. Now, when we are in the middle of our project, we close our eyes and picture the former cars, and move forward with that in mind on our Rather Large Rotisserie Chicken, and hence, it spends way more time in the build than would be necessary to get it on the road. Case in point; maybe your interior sucks, so you add that to the list and gut it, not taking into consideration that you could drive it to the shows all summer, and work the interior in the 'off-season'...if you get my drift. What I mean is, we start out walking around the block and wind up walking into the next county in our quest to have the 'perfect' resto or machine, rather than getting on the 'Drive and Wrench' program. Now, I'm not suggesting anyone sell their car or themselves short, only that you can do some restos in chunks while still enjoying the fruits of your labors.

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Hiya ,
Good idea for a thread! Excellent responses. I’m definitely looking forward to reading more of how others approached their projects and their insight.

I’m a bit of an analytical person and tend to over think things a bit so keep that in mind as I share ….

Starting from scratch…

I’ll start off this post by stating that I am very to this hobby. In fact this is my first car project and up until recently I had been a biker, mostly sport bikes. After my last wreck I decided to try something new and instead of using the insurance money to buy another bike I decided to buy a car. Darts have always been a favorite since my childhood.
Being new to the hobby I was starting from scratch with very little experience to draw from. I wasn’t totally out in the cold though because I had done some bike projects and figured I would glean from those experiences.

The scope…

The scope to me is about setting up a goal. Determining what I wanted to do. Initially the scope of my project is to buy a running car with minimal rust that I could enjoy right away. I would make the car safe to drive and use every day. Lastly, I consider this car a keeper and would be open to increasing the scope as the project progressed.

The roadmap…

At this point I had some money from the insurance company and an idea. I was feeling good and for all intents and purposes it was a good place to start. However, one look through the classifieds, quick surf of the web and a day later I was overwhelmed with choices, possibilities, and scenarios. I knew at that moment that my approach was too broad and that I needed to stream line it if I wanted to get anywhere. You see with Bikes, I knew what I wanted or what would sell because I was focused and I needed to draw on that to get my arms around this project. I needed a game plan.
Still feeling a bit overwhelmed I figured the best way to get started was to develop a roadmap for getting my idea and the bit of cash I had to turn into something. The idea was that this roadmap would get me from Point “A” (cash and idea) to Point “Z” (bad *** car). After I established the first two points of the map essentially making the start point “A’ and the end point “Z” I needed to frame out the rest of the points of the road map and connect the dots. I felt like I was getting somewhere. Keep in mind I haven’t even picked a car yet lol.

My Roadmap started out at a very High level.
A. Money and Idea
B. Select a car type (A body MOPAR)
C. Establish criteria for the target car
D. Determine how much to spend on the purchase price
E. Set expectation
F. Create a preliminary budget
G. ….
Z. Completed project
I know the illustration looks vague but that’s how it started and then I built out each point making it more granular. Eventually, the road map turned into a detailed plan

Picking the target…

With the preliminary planning out of the way I zeroed my sites in on an A body MOPAR ranging from 67-72. I picked these years because I loved them since I was a kid.

The approach…

My approach is straight forward.

Baseline -Once I had the car home. The first thing I did was establish a baseline. Looked the car over to determine was need to make the car safe to drive then made a list of tasks based on major component assemblies and then a set of subtasks for each assembly.

Work flow- Break the larger project down into smaller projects. I chose to break it down by system, and then break the system down further into components. I would start and finish each component until A system was completed then move on to the next system.

Assumptions– I set up a few assumptions to help act as boundaries fro keeping the project rolling.
· I would work one system at a time to keep from spreading out to thin.
· I could work multiple components of a system
· Be prepared to farm out tasks that you are not set up to do or tasks you’re not comfortable doing.

I can illustrate my workflow by telling you that my first system was driveline and that the driveline (transmission to wheel bearings) was broken into several components transmission, drive shaft, differential and half shafts. I could work on multiple component sub projects concurrently or just one at a time but I wouldn’t move to the next system say electrical until I was done with the driveline.

In the end…

I know this isn’t very comprehensive it just captures some of the things that I considered. This is just one persons perspective knowing there isn’t a silver bullet because everyone’s personality and approach to work is different.

BTW, I’m not close to being done but this seems to be working for me so far.
Wish me luck!


AlV

Luck!
Like you, I was/am primarily a restorer of bikes. They are smaller, take up less room, parts (generally) cost less, I know the market, etc. The car for me is something different. When I do a bike resto the intent is to flip it. The car project...no way. It's done in my taste for me to keep. No intention of selling now or later. That makes a difference, because it's personal.

My build is different than most. If you've read the "Biohazard" thread, you know that I lucked into a complete car that needed new upholstery and a good, hospital-grade cleaning.

I thought this driveway resto would largely be an interior redo but it quickly became apparent that in order to achieve the cleaning goals, I was going to have to completely dismantle the car. Then opportunities started springing up such as, "hey, I've got the motor out, may as well paint the the engine bay...of course, I'll need to pull out just a few more things...."

There is nothing in my bay right now but brake lines wrapped in masking tape. Lol.

this thread is so representative of all our projects, especially mine...

Just found a Valiant on ebay/craigslist this week (attached) - picking up this friday.

1st step - agreed on price with buyer
2nd step - formed multi paragraph email to the ATC on why this needs to be our 2nd mopar project. The 4-door is a feature for us (possible car seats in our future) - Haggery prices - I brohttps://plus.google.com/photos/103610739631795757387/albums/5943008073844367953ught out everything in the drawer, and loaded all my ammo!

Our first project was her 1st car dad purchased for her in High school. 74 Gold Duster. attached as well.

3rd step - When you have ATC clearance, mine actually let me know of the ATC approval with her time-off-request from her work on Friday to go with me to San Diego with the trailer!

I think I got a keeper.
She also makes all the fancy instagram collages of the car pics.

https://plus.google.com/photos/103610739631795757387/albums/5943008073844367953

Here's one for ya....Old Man Winter!
He's camping out on my front stoop right now. He hasn't opened up the suitcase and set up shop yet, but we have frost and cold temps at night. Makes working in an unheated garage sort of a *****. So, we put it aside for the winter and get on with life and suddenly....it's summer. And we've missed months of productive time. Sometimes I've even skipped a couple years due to this. Make a 'Winter List' of things you can do inside, or off-site...re-upholster your seats. Re-do that cluster you pulled out. Re-build your wiring harnesses. Go through your distributor, alternator or starter. If it's portable, it's possible! I sincerely believe (for myself at least!) this is one of the biggest project-killers there is...forced down-time! Don't get suckered in. Make out your winter list and keep on truckin'.....you'll thank me come spring!

Captainkirk said:

Luck!
Like you, I was/am primarily a restorer of bikes. They are smaller, take up less room, parts (generally) cost less, I know the market, etc. The car for me is something different. When I do a bike resto the intent is to flip it. The car project...no way. It's done in my taste for me to keep. No intention of selling now or later. That makes a difference, because it's personal.

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I'm right there with you on both points. Birds of a feather, no?

I've stepped in it. Got a 70 Swinger project going great guns. I think we'll have it running under its own power by late summer or early fall. Paint and interior by the end of next spring.

BUT... but wow, I can't believe I did this but I HAD to. I absolutely HAD to. I bought another project before we've finished this one. I bought BACK a project that I'd (regretfully in hindsight) sold years ago because I'd given up on finishing her, citing never having the time.

The guy who bought her (Josephine) from me had a serious stroke so I asked a friend of his if he still had her, thinking that if since he presumably couldn't finish the resto, maybe I could buy her back, now that I'm reborn in full-on resto lifestyle again. But alas, the fella had already sold it, car's whereabouts unknown.

So I was chatting with a buddy, my front end guy in his shop, about my rebirth as a car nut and he said he had such-and-such in his other shop lot... and it rung a bell. I asked a few pointed questions and we both realized it was my old project. Nothing had really been done to it. Phone calls and negotiations ensued. Josephine's coming home!

I haven't told y'all what it is, have I? Purposely. I'm not originally a Mopar guy. (eyes downward, ashamed, and nearly repentant!) I am becoming something of a believer, though. And I will especially be so if Darlene (the Dart) runs as well and looks as good as we have planned. But, confession time: I was originally a Blue Oval guy who converted to the Church of Cheap Parts -- yes, brand X, known by the bow tie. Josephine is a '67 El Camino Custom. Can't wait till she's home.

BUT!! I vow to sink all priorities and $$ first and foremost into Darlene. Josephine will only get spare time work on no $ items, for now.

BTW, since I guess I'm confessing my sins here, I should admit that before Darlene was a 1995 Ford Probe GT project that, when I finished it, spurred my son into bugging me to do a buildup with him. Hence Project Darlene.

And speaking of Project Darlene, I haven't begun a thread on her in the Members' Restorations section. Perhaps I should. I've noticed that quite a few of you have done so along with some prose on the human interest side of things. I wonder if I were to do so might prove both cathartic and motivational for me. Might keep the "in motion" side of the inertia in "Drive", rather than the "at rest" side in "Park"? Hmmm, whaddaya think?

I guess I'm just a guy who appreciates a good machine no matter the marque. Oh, and I, like others here, have a bike I fixed up, too!

Flame suit on and fire extinguisher at the ready, I am,
JD

My biggest killer was automotive ADHD. I wanted to do too many things to too many projects at once. Also, not enough budget to do it. We had it for a while, but then things changed for us last year and that changed everything financially. So now, I am down to working on ONE project, although I do have another one, I am focused on getting what I have now a driver. My advice is don't get too "shotgunned" in your projects. It costs too much and it is way to overwhelming.

I agree, Rusty Rat Rod, that shotgunning is no way to get things done. I remember once having SEVEN projects going at the same time. Almost nothing got done except for band-aids on the ones that were running.

The only peripheral projects were considering are "flip" cars that we can fix and sell quickly to help finance to projects. I live in neighborhood with covenants, too, so that'll keep me in line in that regard. Currently, we do have one of those in progress, but my son is driving it and keeping it at his place.

Going upstairs to make kawfee, I am,
JD