Header coatings, how necessary?

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MopaR&D

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My '70 Duster w/ built 360 currently has a set of Hedman Tight Tubes headers which work OK but the downpipes I had made by a local shop back when I was rushing to get the car together are pretty crummy now (crushed, leaking, etc.). I took the car to a specialty hot rod/racing exhaust shop and to have new downpipes made up would cost around $420. Just to be sure I checked Summit and a pair of bare uncoated Doug's headers are around $460, so I think I'm just going to go that route as I'll get more performance in the end anyway.

Now my question, are those fancy ceramic coatings worth the extra $150+? I read a thread on here about using high-temp BBQ grill paint on raw headers and several members have had great results, I wouldn't mind doing this at all. Also because I live in a pretty dry climate my current headers (which I've been running for almost 2 years) have almost no rust and they are completely bare as well so I feel like it would take several years for them to build up any serious "structural" rust.
 
I have a set of Dougs plain steel headers that are new I plan to put on the 383 going in my Coronet. I called Jet Hot a while back and they said they would blast them inside and out, treat them inside and out, coat them inside and out and give them a lifetime warranty for 365. As I get closer, that's something I will get done. I think it's well worth it.
 
I used to get the Jet Hot coated headers but it's a waist of money where I live. They lasted about 1 1/2 years before they rusted badly. It really pissed me off because I paid so much for the coating. I called Jet Hot and told them off. They recoated them for me (for free, had to pay shipping) but they only last another year. I live in south Texas about 1/4 mile from the ocean.
Now that I'm older and wiser I use Eastwood's Factory Gray High Temp Coating spray. Here's a pic after a year in my Cuda. They've turned a little white but almost no rust at all. Of course this is on the 360 Mag Truck manifold. I won't ever pay for coated headers again...it's just not worth it where I live. If you live in a very dry climate they should last a lot longer but for $150 it should last 10-15 years. The can of spray costs around 10 bucks and will do 2 sets of headers/manifolds.

$10 VS $150...your call

Treblig
 

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Neighbor I helped in NJ years ago with his drag car had his headers Jet Hot coated. Never had a single problem with them....until some knucklehead kicked them off the trailer at the track one day when said knucklehead had to replace a head gasket...the damage to the finish was minimal. Was nice to be able to shut the motor off, lift the hood off and work near them without fear of getting burned...just make sure that your hands are clean when you touch them, and you have no oil leaks above them. If you heat them with any oil on them they will stain...
 
Here's a picture of ceramic coated headers and then Jet Hot coated. Jet Hot has a lifetime warranty. Not a very good pic. I'll take a better picture later.
 

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You asked "is it necessary to have your headers coated"? No. Is it recommended. Yes. I've run un-coated headers for years without any problems, other than they look like hell and rust. Coatings will reduce under hood temps and the potential for rusting. The top picture in the post above is TTI's ceramic coating. They didn't last too long. I even used an old set of headers for break in before putting the TTI's on. And they still cooked!
When I had the car apart for painting, I took the headers to Jet Hot in OKC. As you can see in the two pics below, no discoloration and no rust.
 

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Yes, Jet Hot has a lifetime coating warranty and they stand by their warranty, as I said they recoated mine for free. But in my case (and maybe some other folks) it's not worth it to go through the trouble of removing the exhaust pipes and headers, packing them up and shipping them off for weeks. All the time not being able to drive your car. Then every 12/18 months you do it again.
For some people it's not a problem, for me it is.

Then again, if you live in a dry climate it may well be another story. No one else has yet to tell you how long their Jet Hot coating lasted. One important thing to remember....The longevity of coatings used on headers is greatly determined by how often you actually start your engine and drive your car. A race car doesn't go through thousands of heat cycles like a daily driver. Drag cars just don't run their engines very often. Every time you start the engine and bring it up to temperature the metal (in the header/manifold) expands. Every time it expands moisture can penetrate microscopic pores in the coating. Once the moisture gets to the metal the header begins to rust. The more heat cycles the most moisture penetration. The coating doesn't rust but the metal underneath does. That's why headers (coated or not) don't rust as fast in dry climates and that's why they only last a year or two where I live. We have 95-100 percent humidity 9-10 months out of the year with a hint of salt air if you live near the ocean. We all know what salt and moisture do to metal.
So if you have a race car and live in a dry climate or garage you car every night coated headers should last a very long time. Conversely, if you live in a wet climate (especially close to salt water) or any body of water coatings are almost worthless especially if you own a daily driver that doesn't sleep in an enclosed garage.

So the questions are:

Do you have a daily driver?
Do you live in a dry climate?
Do you live close to a body of water?
Does your car sleep in an enclosed garage at night?

If I lived in a dry climate I wouldn't spend my money on any special coating unless I took my car to car shows or if I liked showing off my engine. The "Eastwood's Factory Gray High Temp Coating Spray" works just fine and I reapply it every year or so. My Cuda is a daily driver and sleeps in a carport (not enclosed).


Hope this helps....

Treblig
 
My buddy and I have similar engines. He had chrome plated TTIs while I have ceramic coated TTI headers. His car would get heat soaked and vapor lock when he shut it off for any amount of time. You couldn't work under his hood for about a half hour after he shut it off because of how hot it got under the hood. I have none of these problems. He didn't want to spend the money for the ceramic when he bought his headers. But last year he pulled them off and had them ceramic coated. He has no problems now.
I had cars with painted headers before and now that I see the difference with ceramic coated I would recommend it if you can afford it. As for rusting, if you talk to whoever does the ceramic coating they will offer suggestions to prevent any rust issues.
 
A premium Header Builders thoughts......Be warned, they are pricey.....And every time I post a link to this fellows site several folks whine about the $$ he charges.....but nothing like having headers built to your need....not generic off the shelf headers....I believe Mark is a member here but got ran off by people not understanding that things cost money.....
 
Well worth coating them or buying them already coated.Paint NEVER lasts on headers.Spend the extra $150.00 if you have it to spend.
 
all the headers i had done over the years rusted.. from now on i'll get bars and brush on the eastwood stuff. that way when it gets an imperfection its easy to touch up.. :)
 
trebling,
1st question: Do you have a daily driver? This car will be driven. Not just raced or showed.
2nd question: Do you live in a dry climate? It's been dry as a powder house around here for years.
3rd question: Do you live close to a body of water? Used to. It dried up.
4th question: Does your car sleep in an enclosed garage at night? Yes.

I'm not trying to be funny, but I know the type of climate you're faced with and I don't have those problems. Here in Wichita Falls we are now in stage 4 water restrictions. So moisture hasn't been a real big problem in years. However, I've had street cars with ceramic and Jet Hot coatings for years that were subjected to some pretty crazy conditions and some similar to yours and I would still recommend these coatings vs. paint. Painting does protect the outer surface, but what about the inside? These coatings protect the inside and outside of the header.
 
I tried the bbq grill paint it lasted about three months, I now have tti ceramic polished headers on and they were worth the money. 2 years now in Pa winters and I drive car anytime its fit.
 
I have the Doug's ceramic coated headers on my Valiant and I love them. I have been running these headers for about five years now, and the finish has dulled a little, but that was in the first few months and has not progressed any more. they greatly help with under hood temps as well.
 
DartOS,

The OP quoted $150 for a coating he wasn't sure he wanted. If he coats them inside and out then the price more than doubles (See RRR post). I am not saying that the OP shouldn't get his headers coated, I'm simply explaining why they rust and what conditions are conducive to coating longevity. I don't think your post was funny...factual maybe but not funny.
You are absolutely correct, coating the inside and outside helps tremendously but it also cost twice as much as the OP had quoted. The OP seems to be looking for the best bang for his buck. I think he's seen some good posts to help him make the decision.

PS- I even tried SS headers, over time they turned a funny blue/black color and they leaked at the exhaust ports that's why I run 340 driver's side cast iron and 360 Mag Truck passenger.

The OP will have to decide how much to spend to get the results he wants. Or how much not to spend, I hope we gave enough info for him to make a decision.

Treblig (no "n" in Treblig)
 
Sorry for using the "n". In short, if I had known better I would of bought bare TTI's and then had them Jet Hot coated. Not cheap! The set of long tube, blasted and coated cost me $350.
 
Many times when I type "treblig" I also accidently put an "n" in the same place so it's no big deal. I always have to go back and delete the "n". I think my mind is used to writing the "ing" on so many words that I unconsciously stick an "n" in there.

treblig
 
Done the VHT gig,strip the black garbage off,scotchbrite the header,heat & paint.Would get 1-2 years,before needing attention. Have a set of factory ceramic coated Hooker headers,with the car I have now.The ceramic coating,holding up after 11+ years. Depends on the pocket book. Usually cheaper to buy them already done. Jet Hot does do inside and out. Back to the pocket book.
 
Wow lots of replies here thanks guys. My Duster is definitely a "driver" I use it at least once a week. I hadn't thought much about the underhood temps but that is a very good point, my current headers make it noticeably hotter under the hood than when I was running manifolds on my old 318. Not unbearable but definitely causes heat soak problems with the carb (vintage Carter AFB) and such when it's warm and sunny outside and I'm idling along in heavy traffic.

At this point guess I'll just see how much money I have to spend by next spring. I might also call that exhaust shop I got the estimate from and see what their experiences have been with header coatings locally. I live in Denver, CO btw and the humidity here is very low year-round.
 
Food for thought.... Many members post about having their idler arm going to heck from the heat caused by headers so maybe a good ceramic coated set of headers might eliminate this issue.
 
I remember Denver. Used to drive my car down the frozen streets, cut the wheel all the way to one side, pull the emergency brake and do 360s until the car came to a stop or I hit a curb!!!LOL
I also remember my lips and ears getting cracked from the low humidity. I thought it was cold in Denver until the military shipped me to Cheyenne, Wyo. Denver's a mile high, Cheyenne is 1000 ft higher. When I finally came back to South Texas I swore I would never live in that freezing cold again.
But one good thing...that's where I fell in love with Mopars, had a Roadrunner (383, 4spd), Belvedere, Dodge W350 4 X 4, 3/4 ton (or one ton) military truck, all original 1970 440 6 pack challenger w/shaker hood, '67 Barracuda 273, 4 spd...all while I was stationed there.

When I finally left for home (Texas) I had to leave behind 5 complete 440 engines that I had collected. I remember paying $100 a piece at the junk yard. Didn't have room or weight capacity in the U-Haul for them.

Treblig
 
Food for thought.... Many members post about having their idler arm going to heck from the heat caused by headers so maybe a good ceramic coated set of headers might eliminate this issue.


My idler arm, pitman and trans shift cable are very close to my headers. I have not had any problems out of them, but I have always had the ceramic coated headers. I could see how an un-coated pipe would cause problems.
 
I remember Denver. Used to drive my car down the frozen streets, cut the wheel all the way to one side, pull the emergency brake and do 360s until the car came to a stop or I hit a curb!!!LOL
I also remember my lips and ears getting cracked from the low humidity. I thought it was cold in Denver until the military shipped me to Cheyenne, Wyo. Denver's a mile high, Cheyenne is 1000 ft higher. When I finally came back to South Texas I swore I would never live in that freezing cold again.
But one good thing...that's where I fell in love with Mopars, had a Roadrunner (383, 4spd), Belvedere, Dodge W350 4 X 4, 3/4 ton (or one ton) military truck, all original 1970 440 6 pack challenger w/shaker hood, '67 Barracuda 273, 4 spd...all while I was stationed there.

When I finally left for home (Texas) I had to leave behind 5 complete 440 engines that I had collected. I remember paying $100 a piece at the junk yard. Didn't have room or weight capacity in the U-Haul for them.

Treblig

Lol if you think Rocky Mountain winters are tough try the Northeast... I'm originally from central Pennsylvania and winters there are AWFUL, the sky will literally be overcast for weeks straight with an occasional sunny day. And the higher humidity coupled with the denser air being closer to the coast makes it "feel" a lot colder than the temperature would have you think. I'll take Colorado winters any day, can't complain when you got world-class skiing to enjoy ha.

I'm tossing more ideas around in my head now, I'm thinking of trying to change out the header collectors myself in the meantime as one is already bent up and leaking from hitting the pipe on bumps so many times. Only tricky part would be welding it up to the old pipes but I might be able to take it somewhere to have that done after I cut off the old ones.
 
Jet Hot supposedly had some company changes over the years and some years of coatings weren't too good. That's from the mouth of the Jet Hot rep in OKC. I had bought my car with the headers already there, rusted. I pulled them and took them to these guys in OKC. I was planning on having to pay to ge tthe headers coated again, but the guy said they do TTi's headers so they are covered under Jet Hot's lifetime warranty, even though I did not purchase them originally. I haven't run the newly coated headers yet, but I hop they last. It would have cost $350.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=226094
 
A premium Header Builders thoughts......Be warned, they are pricey.....And every time I post a link to this fellows site several folks whine about the $$ he charges.....but nothing like having headers built to your need....not generic off the shelf headers....I believe Mark is a member here but got ran off by people not understanding that things cost money.....

I got to meet Mark in person. He stopped by and picked up some parts he purchased from me on his way back from some races. He builds awesome headers.
 
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