tighening up the gaps

Is there a rule of thumb or a set gap for the doors and fenders-ect. Like 1/8" or 1/4" what is good or what is exeptible, what do we strive for?:banghead:

Hell no, its a mopar. Crappiest gaps of the big 3 are you crazy? 5/16 is pretty common but I wouldn't lose sleep over something bigger or uneven. Don't put on your tight white underwear here.

PoisonDart74 said:

Hell no, its a mopar. Crappiest gaps of the big 3 are you crazy? 5/16 is pretty common but I wouldn't lose sleep over something bigger or uneven. Don't put on your tight white underwear here.

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Agreed.... Don't ask me,unless you like long ,very boring stories....

Just make all your gaps even as possible.

68383GTS said:

Just make all your gaps even as possible.

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I'm not a body man and even I figured this out. You can't just "choose" to "tighten up" gaps, it depends on the CAR. The doors have to fit, the hood has to fit the cowl, and the fenders have to average out between the hood and doors.

That is, if the cowl won't allow the hood "back far enough" you can't move the fenders back to tighten up the door gaps because then the hood will stick out.

Some of these cars had terrible tolerances.

Back then, "we didn't care."

What they all said,,,,,,,,,,just strive to get the body lines aligned and the gaps fall where they do.

The only way to get perfect and even gaps on an a-body is with a welder and a grinder.

Get as close as you can with adjustments. The guys building top end cars do exactly what 1968Formula said, they grind tight gaps, re-weld and then finish, and the big gaps get ground and steel rod welded on the edge and then finished. tmm

I can tell the instrument above is a fake. Everybody knows the "NOC" meter scale is NON linear!!!! LOL

People do care. Huge gaps are an eyesore.

I think 3/16" is about what the pros try to get the gaps to. My Challenger fenders were cut open and filled to get the gaps at 3/16". The trunk and doors were done the same way.

burdar said:

People do care. Huge gaps are an eyesore.

I think 3/16" is about what the pros try to get the gaps to. My Challenger fenders were cut open and filled to get the gaps at 3/16". The trunk and doors were done the same way.

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I have to agree..

burdar said:

People do care. Huge gaps are an eyesore.

I think 3/16" is about what the pros try to get the gaps to. My Challenger fenders were cut open and filled to get the gaps at 3/16". The trunk and doors were done the same way.

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your right people care, at our shop we will spend hours on pannel alignment before paint to ensure it doesn't look like crap after a nice coat of paint. whats the sense in spending 100 hours getting the body straight if none of them have good gaps?

sometimes you have to reem the holes for more adjustment, sometimes things have to be bent, it takes what it takes to get it right, but when its right things open and shut better, doors fit better and much more

Depends on what your going for, I see we have the get it done, it will be driving too fast for anyone to see it crowd.

...Then we have the it sits in our garage collecting dust, or at a car show collecting dust, rubbed with a diaper every 6 minutes crowd.

Depends on the build. Pick your poison. Personally, I spent 2 years fixing the body work that matters behind the scenes. So y'all purists will have to excuse me when I say at this juncture I don't care. It also doesn't look like either of the past 2 comments did their own work on it, which makes a difference. Y'all sit out there for hundreds of hours with a welder and a grinder for a 1/16th difference and then you tell me if it was worth it, I've got better things to spend my time on.

PoisonDart74 said:

Depends on what your going for, I see we have the get it done, it will be driving too fast for anyone to see it crowd.

...Then we have the it sits in our garage collecting dust, or at a car show collecting dust, rubbed with a diaper every 6 minutes crowd.

Depends on the build. Pick your poison. Personally, I spent 2 years fixing the body work that matters behind the scenes. So y'all purists will have to excuse me when I say at this juncture I don't care. It also doesn't look like either of the past 2 comments did their own work on it, which makes a difference. Y'all sit out there for hundreds of hours with a welder and a grinder for a 1/16th difference and then you tell me if it was worth it, I've got better things to spend my time on.

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I quoted the previous guy, those are his pictures; and yes I work in an autobody shop, if we turned stuff out with a 3/16" gap at the top of the panel and an 1/8" at the bottom how long do you figure before everyone I work with would have to look for another job?

going crazy and welding is one thing and might be what private people do, but moving things around so you can get a uniform gap is what we do

A good restoration shop will strive to have even gaps. It is one of the hallmarks of a truly professional job.
If it's your own car only you can decide how much time and work you're willing to spend. 3/16 is usually optimal, but there is no fixed rule. Cars from the fifties used to have really horrible panel alignments and no one cared much.

You know what else is a halmark of a professional job? Taking the whole car apart and making each piece exactly perfect side to side in and out up and down just like mickey mouse at disneyland. Folks wear me out on this board about unrealistic expectations of these old farts.

In real life, these cars have horrible tolerances and where do you call it a day?


What matters more? Getting the structure good, or the low hanging fruit like a door gap?


If your gonna fix the door gap, why tear into it and get the door frame perfect, and while your at why not take them quarters down to the frame and fix all that so it's perfect. Don't forget the cowl to firewall inner fenders and front frame rails.

See what I mean?

"Cars from the fifties used to have really horrible panel alignments and no one cared much."

Not here to argue... I'm not THAT old, yet, but I do remember my father got a 32,000 mile '57 BelAir in the early 70's, and I seem to remember that car having really good, clean tight gaps.That car had great fit and finish, and no, it wasn't a resto, just a clean one owner garage kept car (granted, the local tri-five club guys said it was probably one of the finest originals in the country at that time).

My first car was a black '63 Savoy two door sedan and I seem to remember that car having very good fit/finish,too (Mom got that new)...

I never thought the fit/finish started going downhill until later 60's to70's, then went in the sh!tter for 20 years or so, before finally getting better again (let's forget about the later 70's all the way through the 80's).

I remember spending hours in the early 80's aligning new car panels because customers would get a new car and they were junk. Hell,I once had a door shut, locked, across all four fingers of my left hand by a co-worker. Yeah, I screamed, but was left nothing but bruised up (GM X-body).

1968FormulaS340 said:

The only way to get perfect and even gaps on an a-body is with a welder and a grinder.

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Some simple, light hammering can make a lot happen, too.

67Dart273 said:

I'm not a body man and even I figured this out. You can't just "choose" to "tighten up" gaps, it depends on the CAR. The doors have to fit, the hood has to fit the cowl, and the fenders have to average out between the hood and doors.

That is, if the cowl won't allow the hood "back far enough" you can't move the fenders back to tighten up the door gaps because then the hood will stick out.

Some of these cars had terrible tolerances.

Back then, "we didn't care."

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That's what I do. Set the doors to the quarters and check window seal. Set the hood to the cowl, set the fenders.

71beater said:

My first car was a black '63 Savoy two door sedan and I seem to remember that car having very good fit/finish,too (Mom got that new)...

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I'm working on one of those. It has reasonable gaps. Same color, too. All original.

Here are a couple of tricks that I've noticed with the A body cars-

-Decklid panel alignment on '70 up cars is something to be desired, because of the poorly manufactured hinges. They curve too far back on the design and in order to get some of them to come forward and align with the quarter extensions, you need to open up the hinge insert rectangular holes a bit, for the decklid to slide forward.

-Door weatherstrip and window seals at the front edge suck. This is usually due to a chain of events in fitting, caused by poorly stamped fenders. This is a relatively easy fix.

In order to get the door to align with the fender, they shim the crap out of the door hinge on the car. Take them out. That will help the front vent window or one piece glass (duster/demon/sport/late dart/ scamp) seal against the A pillar.

After you've done that the fender will usually not come in any further to meet the door. This is because the corner of the fender that meets the cowl is too long. If you hammer the radius and make it larger, the fender can come in, which also helps the fender to hood gap.

-Upper quarter panel to door (concave area) belt line to body line is usually garbage. This is because they got a bit lazy at the factory, when they welded the complete quarter panel to the door jamb rise. This is also an easy fix.

After you've fitted the front of the door loose with no shims, align the lower body lines of the door against the quarter panel and tighten the door so it has a nice gap against the quarter. Ignore the top/ belt alignment for now.

Be sure to check the door fitment with your glass and window frame (if applicable) with regulator and no striker. this will give you the correct weight and will not rely on the striker to correct the door open and close motion. The striker and latch are there to hold the door shut. Not to correct alignment.

After the door is where you like it in the frame, bump the top of the quarter panel down, at the top of the belt line, right next to the door. There is a thin spot in the front, leading edge of the quarter skin, where it is spot welded to the jamb, right where the concave area peaks. If it doesn't tweak enough to allow the belt line areas to align (where the window felts are), you can drill the spot welds at the concave area, in the jamb and bump it down lightly, then re-weld. Most of the time, a few strikes with a mallet is enough to work.

Before I started on the Scamp, it had acceptable gaps, but after rebuilding the door hinges and seeing a heavy shim in them, I knew I could make an improvement without much work and it paid off.

Just be thankful that you can adjust it. I had to do everything on this car with a welder, lead substitute and a file;



Unified front clip to cowl and rocker = zero gap adjustment on all hinged panels. If I tighten up somewhere, I open somewhere else.

That car was so flimsy that I actually built the drivetrain and suspension when I did bodywork, set weights in the doors to emulate loaded condition for panel alignment and eliminate panel dive.

My favorite part was the front trunk lid. If you try to flex the hinges to get it to move one way or another, you will destroy the cam ratchet prop mechanisms inside. Zero deflection. It is also held level with the fenders, with solid rubber weatherstrip, so I got to mask the weatherstrip with a layer of masking tape and install it, to check body work for panel fitment, during every stage. I discovered that duct tape was too thick and threw panel alignment off and got to redo the entire front end alignment.

IT IS POSABLE I have done it, it is a pain in the you know what & it takes a lot of time. I set my gaps at 1/4 inch. It is well worth the time. I haven't used a welder but some times I have used duraglass to help out in certain areas. The only areas I have problems with are where the fender meets the cowl & where the fender meets the rocker. Good luck

I consider poor gaps to be the hallmark of high torque and excellent traction.

jos51700 said:

I consider poor gaps to be the hallmark of high torque and excellent traction.

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:violent1: Quit clowning around, we are serious men, answering serious questions, about a serious situation, in a serious tone, about a seriously deep life meaning question!

66plyValiant said:

I quoted the previous guy, those are his pictures; and yes I work in an autobody shop, if we turned stuff out with a 3/16" gap at the top of the panel and an 1/8" at the bottom how long do you figure before everyone I work with would have to look for another job?

going crazy and welding is one thing and might be what private people do, but moving things around so you can get a uniform gap is what we do

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There is obviously a happy middle ground also, get the gaps as even as possible without spending 100`s of hours welding and grinding. I`m sure that is what most of us do also, only the top show cars need anything more than that.

I spent about a day getting the panels nice on the '73 Scamp. The only reworking I did was cut the slot longer on the decklid on one side, for the hinge, to get it to scoot forward, reset the doors without shims, reset the hood to cowl and rolled the corners of the fenders that gap to the cowl, to get the fenders in to the doors and close the hood to fender gaps. I also bumped the driver's side quarter panel top section down with a mallet to get all the lines from the top of the quarter and door to match.

I also rebuilt the hinges while I was in there, during the 5 hours I was messing around after work, that day. It's really not as difficult as it seems. The only time you need to weld material, is if you're in there replacing metal with a poor fit or going extremely custom and can't make adjustments or cuts at the hardware mounting areas.

Thank you!!!!!