Mad Dog Headers

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roccodart440 said:
Mad Dog Headers

This guys has been making headers for 40 years. 20 of them making 440 A body headers and 15 years with the low deck


440 are 2" primaries with slip on collectors. The center 2 tubes are attached on both sides. They are very similar to tti's design. Price is 625 uncoated and he doesn't offer coating. They'll work with straight or angles plugs and are machined gasket surfaces.


The low deck is a totally different design from the TTI's and he says they can be installed easily in "20 min per side"
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Are these a tuned header?
 
rbdart said:
freakin ridic price...who in their right mind would spend that kind of money for headers?
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Apparently some folks will. Last I spoke with Mark he was 3-4 months out. He builds race car stuff, where every last little bit of power counts. They are also not a one size fits all like TTI. You will not need to shim your motor mounts etc with his headers as they are built for you. Also they are stainless, so no flaking finish problems like TTI is known for. If you are on the West side of the country and want custom headers but are not looking for THAT quality call him, he will refer you to another shop. He gave me the number to a fellow in Oregon. Number is on another computer but Womanator (?) has used him with great success.....

Mark has done some of the SS HEMI cars. Have spoken with a few of them, said they are the best headers they have ever owned. Don't remember the specifics but his headers HEMI headers that Ilooked at were either a 3 or 4 step design, believe the tubes were 2.75" at there largest. Uses merge collectors, not just a round tube with a flange on it. One of the guys I spoke with said it takes a half hour per side, with the factory steering box & torsion bars to get the headers in. Everybody also bitches about his price, it takes him a full week to build a set of headers. Ever check the price of stainless merge collectors?
http://www.burnsstainless.com/321.aspx
they are more than some headers are complete.
So I have to ask....does anyone here work for free? Any shop owners have 0 overhead? Last I checked everyone works to put food on there table & a roof over there head.
Always laugh when people just look at the price of something, not the quality that goes along with it. Sure TTI's are way cheaper....and that is exactly what they are cheap....comparatively speaking....Considering the parts for Marks headers are probably north of a grand his price, for 4 days of labor, is not that far out of line....unless you work for minimum wage....
 
Look at all the headers the NASCAR boys run. You ain't gonna buy those for 699.

That said, I think all most people want is a competitively priced header that actually fits. Look at other makes of cars in our year model range. headers are one thing none of them have the same problems as the Mopar. If we all had chebbies this thread wouldn't exist.
 
Those PerfWeld headers are expensive... But we're talking about max effort race headers and comparing them to off the shelf street headers.There is a big difference there.
Yes, you can't justify them on a $5000 street beater (or even $10K or more), but on a big dollar race car, hell yeah.
If you really want to knock your socks off, look at the price of the leading bike headers out there nowadays, there are plenty of $2000+ exhaust systems for 3 and 4 cylinder bikes. And I see $10,000 dollar bikes running around with them!
Look at Akrapovic, Arrow and LeoVince.
 
You 'may' have your points but 2700+bucs aint logical man,cant be right in the head,there aint no way to justify it,
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They aren't for the average guy with a street car. Not sure what is so hard to understand about that.

They are designed like stated many times for the car that you need every last bit of et out of. I'm sure you or me wont be putting $5500 into a 904 either but those guys do. And let's not even start on what kind of money is into the engines of those cars. It's an entire different world man.
 
71beater said:
Those PerfWeld headers are expensive... But we're talking about max effort race headers and comparing them to off the shelf street headers.There is a big difference there.
Yes, you can't justify them on a $5000 street beater (or even $10K or more), but on a big dollar race car, hell yeah.
If you really want to knock your socks off, look at the price of the leading bike headers out there nowadays, there are plenty of $2000+ exhaust systems for 3 and 4 cylinder bikes. And I see $10,000 dollar bikes running around with them!
Look at Akrapovic, Arrow and LeoVince.
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My 05' Buell had a full serpent micron exhaust on it which cost 1,000 + install.

Bike cost me 4,500 used. % wise that's a lot of $$.
 
You 'may' have your points but 2700+bucs aint logical man,cant be right in the head,there aint no way to justify it
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Maybe for YOU but it is perfectly logical in context as Inkjunky and A-body Joe have pointed out. It's as basically heads up racing and there is more power to be gained in exhaust than probably anything other legal modification except perhaps the shape of the cam lobe.

For other forms of competition whether it is worth it is still worth considering. With any given engine, exhaust is one place where large gains can be made. I can tell you that over the years I've wasted close to that much in cash alone for headers that didn't work out either immediately or in the long run.

Are these a tuned header?
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A tuned header refers to creating harmonics that helps fill the cylinders with clean intake air through certain rpm ranges. To do this, each primary tube will be of equal length. In a stepped header, both the intial and stepped up section will be of equal length. That's only part of it, but its the part that when you look at the #1 and #2 tubes pictured its obviously not a tuned header.

On a street vehicle, in my opinion it is more important not to accidently create bad harmonics in the system. That is, to insure that harmonics are not occuring that reflect exhaust gas back into an opening exhaust valve. A software program like Pipe-max can make sure H or X pipe placement, muffler placement, overall length are not placed harmfully. The lengths closer to the engine are generally the most important. So if the primaries are unequal, and the collectors* are unequal, problem harmonics are going to be less of a big deal.

*In a closed exhaust consider collector length the distance from the end of the primary tubes to the muffler, H-pipe or X, whichever comes first.
 
you want the 2 dollar ***** or 2k a nite one,they both accomplish the same thing...crazy **** for real but it aint gonna be my $$...I'm happy with my $600 HOOKERS thank you.

Rbdart:
You could also do it yourself and save a lot more money. (Both headers and whores)
I would never spend $600 on a hooker, but you did obviously........
 
abodyjoe said:
They aren't for the average guy with a street car. Not sure what is so hard to understand about that.

They are designed like stated many times for the car that you need every last bit of et out of. I'm sure you or me wont be putting $5500 into a 904 either but those guys do. And let's not even start on what kind of money is into the engines of those cars. It's an entire different world man.
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Yes I do understand that what I dont understand is how it revelant to this thread and OP...IT AINT
 
rbdart said:
Yes I do understand that what I dont understand is how it revelant to this thread and OP...IT AINT
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Correct it isn't. But that didn't stop you from being the first to comment on the link. The rest is just answering your repeated question.

rbdart said:
freakin ridic price...who in their right mind would spend that kind of money for headers?
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From what I am seeing on his site and the work he does he could take care of the lack of
a 170 slant header that will not hit the water pump or anywhere ells on the Low deck engine in an early A body and be tuned to dump each cylinder where it needs too.
My 2 cent's, very nice indeed 8)
 
Back to the point of cost. I am not rich, but I would have paid $1500.00 for my TTI's, although I only paid a grand. TTI's are that good, and maybe the others are great for their price point, but after hours of research, I bought TTI's, and have no regret of fit and performance (not one dent in needed).
If I was racing Super Stock, Comp. eliminator, or any IHRA/NHRA super class's of that caliper, I wouldn't have any problem paying an additional 2-3K for 10-15 more HP.
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone mentioning Bob Mazzolinni racing. he has a slip together headers made by TTI that sell for $799.00.
All my dealings with Bob over 30 years has been good.

http://www.bobmazzoliniracing.com/
 
rbdart said:
Obviously Not,Yea that is funny,doing it yourself or spend 600 bucs on a hooker...not...I was stating the costs of the hooker headers new and no I did not pay that for them,traded for them new in the box,prob have $200 in them,had 2 sets of them at the time and a set of hedman hustlers,kept the new set sold the others as to my car was already outfitted with fenderwells and 3" exhaust...assume nothing
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Yeah, that was intended to be funny and i'm glad you took it that way.....
I too am a bucks down guy looking for good deals, but sometimes you need to cut to the chase and save up then spend money on quality parts. For example, i couldn't afford good headers for my car like Doug's or TTI's and i sure as hell didn't want cheap *** Flowtech headers. i have them on my '69 Valiant and they are nothing but problems. I went with factory exhaust manifolds until i can afford good headers. I also might go big block in the future depending on if i can save enough and if my health holds up etc.etc.
Getting back on the o.p's topic, i am a firm believer of you get what you pay for, but those Mad Dogs look like pretty good bang for the buck.
The sky is the limit when it comes to speed parts and some people have very deep pockets, there are more people around like that than you might think.......
 
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone mentioning Bob Mazzolinni racing. he has a slip together headers made by TTI that sell for $799.00.
All my dealings with Bob over 30 years has been good.
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bought a set of proparts from him years ago and they were awesome. only paid $399 back then..lol
 
any pics from under the car? how is the started to get to? any interference with the torsion bars? is that tube dented at the steering shaft??
 
and a couple more.
 

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abodyjoe said:
any pics from under the car? how is the started to get to? any interference with the torsion bars? is that tube dented at the steering shaft??
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here are some I took from under the car last year when I did the spring relocation and mini tub, they don't show much. The starter is a mini and I haven't tried to get it out but I believe you can, no interference with torsion bars but I thick there is room for improvement, I don't believe the tube is dented if anything a very small dimple. If I remember, when I get the car over the pit again I"ll get some more detailed of the underside.
 

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I've got your Mad Dog right here:

images
 
BrokenTool said:
here are some I took from under the car last year when I did the spring relocation and mini tub, they don't show much. The starter is a mini and I haven't tried to get it out but I believe you can, no interference with torsion bars but I thick there is room for improvement, I don't believe the tube is dented if anything a very small dimple. If I remember, when I get the car over the pit again I"ll get some more detailed of the underside.
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Thanks for the pictures. They don't hang down as low as I thought they might. Is that a stock oil pan?
 
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