Diesel Dodge Dart Concept

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Diesel sucks gay ballsacks. Especially now when diesel is so much higher than gas it removes any benefit from better mileage and makes you about even with gas cost wise. They are slow to rev and who the hell wants to smell like diesel fuel all the time? That **** gets everywhere and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

This simply isn't true. I just bought my wife a new TDI and she had a kia prior. Her kia had no power and got low 30's milage. The new one is a rocket and gets mid 40's average. Her fuel bill has been cut nearly in half despite the cost difference.

Dependingon the vehcile you might get diesel smell... true. Her car doesn't smel at all. The trucks, turned up, straight piped, yes. The old ones especially. Doesn't bother me. I've grown to hate the smell of gasoline and it's funny how people who drive gas cars don't smell it. this especially applies to the drag strip and car show/classic car guys. However race fuel does smell good to me.

I OWNED an 04 F250 6.0 Powerstroke. 4" exhaust, cat delete, cold air kit, Diablo tuner. I know what they run like. Besides all that, I've turned wrenches since 1974, so I've been around some diesels. I stand by what I said. Even with all that done to mine, a good hot gas engine would out rev the hell out of it. I didn't say out run.

6.0's were junk unless you did a "bulletproofing to them" They can be made to run. They had some major inherent design flaws. It really isn't a champ to be compared in this discussion through as I began talking about a 4 cylinder TDI VW engine which is a common rail, inline design with fixed vanes. The 6.0 is a V design with oil fired injectors and a variable vane.

Make no mistake the diesels can be VERY fast, specifically the duramax if your talking 1/4 mile type performance. But that really isn't what they are for.
 
I OWNED an 04 F250 6.0 Powerstroke. 4" exhaust, cat delete, cold air kit, Diablo tuner. I know what they run like. Besides all that, I've turned wrenches since 1974, so I've been around some diesels. I stand by what I said. Even with all that done to mine, a good hot gas engine would out rev the hell out of it. I didn't say out run.
Well, a 6.0, no wonder you're down on diesels! :)

OK, so you're just in it for the revs, I get that. Back in the days when I bled Ford Blue I wanted to build a 2.0"-2.5" stroke small block with 2V Cleveland heads on it, a semi-sorta psuedo Boss 302. I figured that it wouldn't really wake up until about 6500 and with the right valve springs would be good for 10K. For it to be much fun I thought to put it in something really light, like a LowCost 7.

FWIW I'd guess that I first started turning wrenches about '74 as well.

Rocco, I read RRR's post to be talking about the smell of the fuel, not the exhaust. You can learn to be very careful about handling the filler nozzles (as a long time VW diesel driver I did), but you aren't going to be 100% successful - no matter how hard you try. A box of thin nitrile mechanic's gloves is a good thing to carry handy in the car. Use a pair at every filling.
 
This simply isn't true. I just bought my wife a new TDI and she had a kia prior. Her kia had no power and got low 30's milage. The new one is a rocket and gets mid 40's average. Her fuel bill has been cut nearly in half despite the cost difference.

Dependingon the vehcile you might get diesel smell... true. Her car doesn't smel at all. The trucks, turned up, straight piped, yes. The old ones especially. Doesn't bother me. I've grown to hate the smell of gasoline and it's funny how people who drive gas cars don't smell it. this especially applies to the drag strip and car show/classic car guys. However race fuel does smell good to me.



6.0's were junk unless you did a "bulletproofing to them" They can be made to run. They had some major inherent design flaws. It really isn't a champ to be compared in this discussion through as I began talking about a 4 cylinder TDI VW engine which is a common rail, inline design with fixed vanes. The 6.0 is a V design with oil fired injectors and a variable vane.

Make no mistake the diesels can be VERY fast, specifically the duramax if your talking 1/4 mile type performance. But that really isn't what they are for.

I'm no math major but you can't cut a fuel bill in half AND spend more per gallon unless you more then double the MPG. So she may be saving some (not double) she could have also spent less money on a new gas car that also gets 40, or even a 96-99 manual DOHC neon that gets over 40 and is quicker then any TDI. So getting 41mpg with $3.10 regular is much better then 46MPG with $3.80 diesel.
The neon costs $37.80 to go 500 miles and the TDI costs $41.30.
 
I cant believe what I am reading on FABO today. Well, maybe a 2 stroke detroit. Yeah, a 4v53 should rock in a 71 duster. Yeah, thats it!
 
I cant believe what I am reading on FABO today. Well, maybe a 2 stroke detroit. Yeah, a 4v53 should rock in a 71 duster. Yeah, thats it!
I know where there's a 4-53 that a friend was going to put in his '49 Power Wagon. Could likely have it for cheep if you want it.
 
I have seen them on youtube in Chevy pickups. Very heavy but they scream! It would cost a fortune to ship to NJ, but thanks!
 
I'm no math major but you can't cut a fuel bill in half AND spend more per gallon unless you more then double the MPG. So she may be saving some (not double) she could have also spent less money on a new gas car that also gets 40, or even a 96-99 manual DOHC neon that gets over 40 and is quicker then any TDI. So getting 41mpg with $3.10 regular is much better then 46MPG with $3.80 diesel.
The neon costs $37.80 to go 500 miles and the TDI costs $41.30.

Her MPG on the kia was on the comp while the TDI is hand calculated. The cost of fuel here is different than near you. The TDI averages mid 40's and gets over 50mpg on a highway trip.

Quicker you say...?

1999 DOHC Neon: 150 hp // 133 lb·ft 5 speed
2014 VW TDI: 140hp // 236ft/lbs 6 speed
 
The lighter neon will use its hp advantage. A 98 or 99 dohc 5 speed ran 15.9-16.2 while the best new jetta TDI is similar but more 16.1-16.3.
I have gotten as high as 45 highway over a long interstate run with my 98 neon.
 
The lighter neon will use its hp advantage. A 98 or 99 dohc 5 speed ran 15.9-16.2 while the best new jetta TDI is similar but more 16.1-16.3.
I have gotten as high as 45 highway over a long interstate run with my 98 neon.

2,900 vs. 3,113

213 pounds more but an extra gear and a 106 ft/lbs of torque. I've owned a neon and this TDI. The TDI is twice the car. The diesel and turbo allows the power level to be turned up drasticly and innexpensively with no sacrifice to milage or reliability. A pipe, tune and EGR delete pushed 350+ lf'lbs.

What will 1800 parts and labor get you on a Neon.

Answer = a neon...

I've been sold on diesel power and it's tough to even compare the 2 cars. engines aside they aren't the same caliber vehicle.
 
Dude, you are arguing a $23,000 car vs a $2000 car. $1200 is a fortune in mods if you ask me and spent on the neon will still only make it faster then the TDI.
You want twice the car for a bit over $20,000 go buy a new v6 mustang.
 
See i'm not really argueing the car at all... I never brought a neon into the mix however there is a guy here doign an SRT4 engine in an Abody which is cool. My point was and is that if one put a small turbo diesel in an a body it would be a very combo for a true daily driver and it would still be quick and get great fuel economy.

just consider 300hp and 400ftlbs with a curb weight of under 3000 pounds and 40+MPG easy.
 
I dont think you will get any of that easy, you won't get 40 mpg, you won't get under 3000 pounds, you won't make 300 hp. You will spend over $20,000, you will never get your money back, you will never actually save money compared to what you spent.
If you want it to be exactly the car you always wanted, to be outside the box, then I'm all for it. But this thread always seemed about doing something to save money. Buying a diesel might do that in certain situations (although I argue 90% of them never will just like hybrids) but building your own diesel conversion never will actually save money.
 
snip....
.....but building your own diesel conversion never will actually save money.
Conjecture. No way to say that with certainty for every conversion. With most such conversions that probably is true, but it is not an absolute.
I know of a TDI powered formerly V6 Toyota 4x4 mini-truck. His mileage about doubled while the power remained the same. No idea of his conversion cost, but since he all of the work himself I'll venture that his pay-off point isn't too far in the future. Factor in that he's running it on mostly free to him bio-diesel and he's probably passed the pay-off point.

I wouldn't do it to save money. I'd do it for range, how far can I go btwn fill-ups w/o building some ginormous fuel tank?

As a long term diesel owner (had one on and off since '95) around these parts diesel fuel's price runs about equal to mid-grade gasoline. When there is a price spike diesel lags gasoline, but eventually over-shoots it before slowly settling back down to about the price of mid-grade again.
 
Chrysler and Nissan developed a NA diesel back in the late'70's. Came in International Scouts. Has a BB 727 bolt pattern...

Definitely not quick, but maybe a turbo and injectors could help. Never thought much of it
 
Why mid grade gas? Just post the normal diesel price in you area vs normal unleaded. You can find it on gassbuddy it's no secret and current government policies especially in California, are only making the divide worse. Biodiesel is just muddying the waters. It has gotten much more difficult to obtain low cost trust me I was going to make it from low cost soybean oil in nearby Washington state. What you are really saving there is the taxes which might work for awhile. Another way to do the same thing is by running propane on a gas motor. Sometimes a big rv dealer here sells propane for $1/gallon.
You say you don't know how much that guys conversion cost but just take a guess. Even at a silly low $2000 estimate that buys a lot of mileage. Most likely the rest of the truck will fall apart before it pays.
 
I do see certain parts of cal have jacked up regular unlead so it is closer then normal US averages. Its not like cal has low diesel prices, they just have abnormally high regular unlead. So that helps the diesel justification where you live.
 
if you want a diesel use the volvo diesel 6 its a vw unit that will fit under the hood and is light weight and with a turbo makes great power
 
Why mid grade gas?
That's along term observation, not a one-time price comparison.

Biodiesel is just muddying the waters. It has gotten much more difficult to obtain low cost trust me I was going to make it from low cost soybean oil in nearby Washington state. What you are really saving there is the taxes which might work for awhile.
All that I know is that he's part of a co-op that makes it from some agri sourced waste product. No idea who/what.

You say you don't know how much that guys conversion cost but just take a guess. Even at a silly low $2000 estimate that buys a lot of mileage. Most likely the rest of the truck will fall apart before it pays.
I really don't know, I doubt that he does either. Any guess on my part would be pointless and misleading.
I'm guessing that you don't have much experience with pre "Taco" Toyota pick-ups. Brand new the truck is more than up to out-living the engine, not the other way around. Given that it was used when he bought it and the engine was a recent purchase telephone pole victim I'd call it a draw.
 
I dont think you will get any of that easy, you won't get 40 mpg, you won't get under 3000 pounds, you won't make 300 hp. You will spend over $20,000, you will never get your money back, you will never actually save money compared to what you spent.
If you want it to be exactly the car you always wanted, to be outside the box, then I'm all for it. But this thread always seemed about doing something to save money. Buying a diesel might do that in certain situations (although I argue 90% of them never will just like hybrids) but building your own diesel conversion never will actually save money.

Not that easy? add a set of sticks anda turbo to the mods listed above. THere you go.

how canpeople such as myself shave a street/strip a body under 3000 lbs with a big block in it yet a 4 banger would not?

Money? Both A bodies I have built have been 25-30,000+ builds and they are far from a SEMA or trailer queen build. I sold the first one and got near every dime I had in it. But WHO CARES? This is a hobby... Look at the cost of new cars. Having 20+ in a new car that is stock and losing your *** on it over the first 5 years. I'm looking at a 2012 cummins with 24,000 miles right now and they are asking 35,000. OUCH!!

while bio diesel may not be worth interjecting veggie bringing is. I have 2 neighbors doing it. one runs 50/50 filtered veg and the other does the whole titration process and runs it straight.
 
If you want to beleive 300 hp TDI Vws are running around reliable with a few bolt ons getting 50+ mpg (probably take more then that to get 1970 aerodynamics to achieve 40 mpg) then fine.
Personally I think you will end up spending $10,000 on the drivetrain, end up with mild 318 performance, and maybe get 30 on the highway with little interest from the Mopar community.
 
Hersbird- we get it- you don't like TDIs. But here is what you are missing. There are people out there that drive lightly modded jettas, getting over 50 mpg average over the past year and love everything about the car. I'm one of them and my other daily is a 550 hp Cummins and I love that too.Of course they aren't as they came from the factory- nor am I or my wife for that matter. Actually, nothing I have is as it came from the factory except the one sb Dart and it wont touch my Dubs.
 
I don't dislike TDIs! I convinced my sister to buy one when she was putting 130 highway miles a day on her car. If I live 5 miles from my work so it would be silly for me. I have also been a diesel truck owner (2005 duramax) but no matter how I did the math it just never saved money so I sold it.

Ps, what I really was responding to here was exaggerations. 1/2 the fuel cost over another small car? 300hp with a few bolt ons? And now I have to question a 550 hp Cummins. Not that they don't exist but here in lies the problem I see so much on the diesel boards (which I frequent about 1/2 as much as here) just add up the manufactures claims for each bolt on and voila! You have your trucks horsepower rating! Again, not talking specifically about anyone here it's just VERY common in the diesel community.
 
I've done one mod only to my CTD and TST claims/warranty's no less than 250HP/600Ft-Lb for that mod, so that is all that I claim. I know others aren't, um..... as conservative with their claims.

I'm rather surprised by the volume of trucks that get chassis dyno'd in that realm. I'd venture that it happens a lot more there than anywhere else. The partial problem with that is, in spite of various claims to the contrary, there is no direct way to go from W-HP to F/W-HP. So F/W-HP numbers based on W-HP dyno results are frequently bandied about, but lack any substance.

That said, if someone else's truck had mods X, Y, & Z, and you've copied all of them in the same truck then it's reasonable to expect that your power is about the same as their dyno results. No two engines make exactly the same HP even if all of their parts are identical, but barring any glaring issues +/- 10% is reasonable.

I'll state the obvious, diesel engines drive differently than gassers. If the driver doesn't adapt to them then the results won't be very good. Can't drive a diesel the same way that you drive a gasser. It'll work and you'll there, but you're not going to be getting the total performance (power & mileage) possible from the diesel by driving it that way.

As I've stated, in this thread I think, if the / currently in the Valiant doesn't ultimately offer the mileage (mid 20's average) and performance (~130-150 HP) that I'm working towards and someone hasn't yet convinced me to part with it, then I'll be looking at a Mercedes turbo-diesel options. Out of the box they're about where I am now, plus a little. A good pump man should be able to put me where I want to be w/o having to really lean on the engine too hard. Won't be inexpensive to do that, but I didn't buy this car as a financial investment. I bought it to drive to work and to have fun with. I've set goals for it, now it's up to me to see what I have to do to meet or exceed them.
 
I don't dislike TDIs! I convinced my sister to buy one when she was putting 130 highway miles a day on her car. If I live 5 miles from my work so it would be silly for me. I have also been a diesel truck owner (2005 duramax) but no matter how I did the math it just never saved money so I sold it.

Ps, what I really was responding to here was exaggerations. 1/2 the fuel cost over another small car? 300hp with a few bolt ons? And now I have to question a 550 hp Cummins. Not that they don't exist but here in lies the problem I see so much on the diesel boards (which I frequent about 1/2 as much as here) just add up the manufactures claims for each bolt on and voila! You have your trucks horsepower rating! Again, not talking specifically about anyone here it's just VERY common in the diesel community.
15 litre- makes 550 kind of run of the mill in a conventional Pete. And you are right about exagerations but that happens everywhere
 
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