Match Race ~ 1965 Valiant '273 Commando' vs. 1973 'Duster 340'

69 Cuda 440 said:

Mr. 318 Will 'Not' Run,

I'd bet everything I own {Present and Future} that an off the Dealership Lot 'stock' 1973 Duster 340
or 1973 Dart Sport 340 with 3.21 Gears and an Automatic could not break the 15.00 Mark.

I lived and saw it.........

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What a beauty!

Thanks Trebor,

Off the Dealership Lot {Factory Performance Book}

1973 Duster 340 ~ Automatic ~ 3.21 Gears .............. 15.17 @ 89.6 MPH

Fine-Tuned and Carburetor 'tweaked', still isn't getting under 15.00.

I know, my sister had a brand new one in 1973 with A/C.

With the A/C belt disconnected, and with around 3000 Miles on the Odometer, it could lay down nothing better than 15.10's @ 90 MPH

.......Okay, add 7" Slicks, and it probably would have hit 14.90's.

my 68 340 powered 65 Barracuda would walk a local 340 Duster everytime and that was with a 7.25 3.55 rear. My car was much lighter but that 340 mill was a whole lot more fun than the 273 4bbl that I pulled. I still say 340 Duster.

318willrun said:

Speaking of yourself, rbdart? I fully understand the times then and now. Those numbers are NOT with slicks, timing adjustments, or carb tweaking. ALL of which the OP said was legal in this race.... making those numbers laughable because they don't apply to this created race :banghead:

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Nope,not speaking of myself,apparantely you do not understand....why are you so nasty and pissed off? Believe what you want it's just a conversation no need to break out the ballbats and get so defensive or up in arms...chill out...and a 318 with same components as a 340 will never run with the 340 regardless of the gear or what its in the 318 will always be roughly 2-3/10's slower give or take,this is a proven fact...I like 318's ran them alot,nothing wrong with them...these posts are from historical publishings and magazines and Ma Mopar,lot of them are not all that accurate and some are dead on,you have to take it all in with a grain of salt,and in real world of everyday driving and racing on the street/strip and the average joe can get many diff results,some stand the test of time and some are just freaks,it's all for the love of the hobby and no 2 people or groups are necessarily gonna agree or see eye to eye so dont take it personal,but if you lash out or start ripping peoples asses you will get the same thing in return,dont go attacking the OP and being disrespectful and expect to gain any friends,it's one thing to agree to disagree,which is fine but be polite and courteous about it,we all have beliefs and opinions and different experiences and they're not all going to be the same,and if it bothers you so much that you cant be respectful then dont read it or post on it...pretty simple..you can make alot of friends here and learn alot or be a troll and not...and I am sorry if you were offended by my post,but I stand by it....now lets get on with the show...I'm 54,been doing the Mopar thing since my mid teens and am still learning new things about old things and have experienced many things that some accept as standards and some in disbelief,doesnt bother me,I keep on moving forward in what I believe and know and when I get to a problem or am in doubt I ask for help and counsel and have gotten alot of good advice here and have made alot of friends and have had alot of good experiences along with a few sour grapes but all in all this site is the best place to come and converse and enjoy the Mopar hobby,whether it be A<B<C<E body or trucks you wont find more info or help anywhere,so lighten up man let's all go in the same direction....

69 Cuda 440 said:

Fine-Tuned and Carburetor 'tweaked', still isn't getting under 15.00.

I know, my sister had a brand new one in 1973 with A/C.

With the A/C belt disconnected, and with around 3000 Miles on the Odometer, it could lay down nothing better than 15.10's @ 90 MPH

.......Okay, add 7" Slicks, and it probably would have hit 14.90's.

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Please explain how the same components from a 73 340 (carb, intake, heads, and cam) were bolted on a STOCK 318 block (stock pistons, rods, crank, everything stock) with 3.21 gears and a stock 727 tranny and stock stall converter ran 14.41 at 96 mph??? In a '76 Dart Sport? The bigger bore/more cubes slow it up? Me and my brother threw it together and we both ran it at the dragstrip. I can't help it what your sisters car did, it doesn't speak for all of them. I know if we would have had a 340 short block instead of 318, we would have been knocking on 13's door, and maybe pulled a high 13's. But slow-joes (under achievers) are always at the strip and they think everyone else has "hidden" nitrious" or something. Sold that 76 Dart Sport about 17 years ago and its still running today..... with the same motor we threw together!

I've also owned a couple of 340 dusters. Had a '72 Duster 340 (it had 360 heads on it because I had the "J" heads on a 360 I was building). The 340 did have a slight upgraded cam (.474 lift, 280 advertised duration) and headers, 3.55 gears. All else stock, including tranny and converter. No slicks, and traction was terrible at the strip (2.3 60 ft times). The car still went a best of 13.59 at 104 mph. Slick would have dropped the 60 ft times to approx. 2.0-1.9 range, resulting in about a 13 flat to 12.90 range.

Rbdart, I am very light on this subject, and actually been laughing in my living room. Not mad at all! I attacked no one. I simply said the posted numbers are a laughing matter because they don't pertain to the race the OP presented. It was a couple of you that attacked me for "lack of knowledge", or "too young to understand" (you might be shocked at my age), or name calling "MR 318 will NOT run". Who is mad and attacking?? NOT ME. LOOK in the mirror along with the OP. Go and re-read what was posted and tell me who is using personal attacks.... age? name calling? lack of knowledge?? aren't these personal attacks, MR rbDart?? Laughing at information that doesn't pertain to the race isn't personal or being mad, or attacking anybody. It was a couple of others, my dear friend, that did the attacking. And try to defend the OP if you wish, but he tried to present EVERY bit of info that would try to put doubt in the minds of those that said the 340 would win. Its just that the info didn't pertain to the race! If I posted a 10 second 340 drag car and said "there, here are some numbers from a 340 duster", wouldn't you all laugh and say it has nothing to do with the race???? That is all that I did, because numbers that don't pertain to the race are being posted and I'm still laughing....

rbdart said:

...and a 318 with same components as a 340 will never run with the 340 regardless of the gear or what its in the 318 will always be roughly 2-3/10's....

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Thank you for proven my point. I am saying if a 318 will run 14.41 with the same components and gearing, then you are saying 3 tenths off that for the 340 would put the duster at a 14.10..... You see??? you agree with me, the numbers are laughable. I never stated the 318 was faster than a 340, just using those true dragstrip numbers to prove the 340 IS faster and WOULD do better than the numbers that's being posted.

I was just wondering the 340 is probably a little under geared but the the 273 is way under geared, 340 4.10 vs 273 4.88 would that be a closer match up ??

Mr. '318-Will-Run'

I can't explain everything, but we were Factory Regional Sponsored Drag Racers back
in the day in the Northeast, when we were running 273's and 340's from {1966 thru 1974}.

I know what the Stock A-Body Mopars were capable of.

Magazine Performance Tests were all over the place.......

Now you're saying that,

You have a 1976 Dart Sport with a 318 {9.10-1 Compression}, with a Weight {3205 lbs. Shipping Weight}
{3304 lbs. Curb Weight}.

With 3.21 Gears 'Sure-Grip' and a 'Stock 727 Automatic.

And you ran a 14.41 @ 96 MPH > By installing a set of 360 'J-Heads' {milled .040"}, a used 340 Camshaft,
Cast Iron Intake and Thermo-Quad 800 CFM.

By that theory,

A 'stock' 1973 'Duster 340' should be capable 14.10's @ 98 MPH..............'NO WAY'

69 Cuda 440 said:

Mr. '318-Will-Run'

I can't explain everything, but we were Factory Regional Sponsored Drag Racers back
in the day in the Northeast, when we were running 273's and 340's from {1966 thru 1974}.

I know what the Stock A-Body Mopars were capable of.

Magazine Performance Tests were all over the place.......

Now you're saying that,

You have a 1976 Dart Sport with a 318 {9.10-1 Compression}, with a Weight {3205 lbs. Shipping Weight}
{3304 lbs. Curb Weight}.

With 3.21 Gears 'Sure-Grip' and a 'Stock 727 Automatic.

And you ran a 14.41 @ 96 MPH > By installing a set of 360 'J-Heads' {milled .040"}, a used 340 Camshaft,
Cast Iron Intake and Thermo-Quad 800 CFM.

By that theory,

A 'stock' 1973 'Duster 340' should be capable 14.10's @ 98 MPH..............'NO WAY'

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Yes, exactly what I believe. Those numbers are real, and giving a 73 duster 340 with slicks, some TQ tweaking, some ignition timing, 14.10 is exactly what I would expect (especially with 3.91's, that should be an easy number). The thermoquad has about 17 adjustments on them, and about 3, maybe 4 of those are crucial. Also, it is key to have no power steering, as that belt robs 2 horsepower, adds 40 lbs, and, and, and the most crucial hit of the power steering on a-bodies is the drivers side manifold that goes "up and over". I have some REAL off the lot dragstrip numbers from some people that have bought them new and raced them off the lot stock (with slicks), and I know what they did. I also know what I have done..... This is a good topic, perhaps "what will a 340 duster run" is better than it vs a 273 commando.

Mr. 318,

A 1973 'Duster 340' with
* 3.91 Gears
* 7" Slicks
* Thermo-Quad {Tweaking with Strip-Kit #10-111 > with larger Primary Jets and a Power Step Metering Rod}
* Timing Adjustments

Should put you down in the 14.50's.

Yes, removal of the Power/Steering Pump is worth .05.

if it means anything, our 99% (smog pump deleted) stock '72 Stage 1 auto 3.42 geared Buick ran its best of 14.29 @96mph on modern radials last year. I doubt a stock '73 340 would be running faster then that.

318willrun said:

I've also owned a couple of 340 dusters. Had a '72 Duster 340 (it had 360 heads on it because I had the "J" heads on a 360 I was building). The 340 did have a slight upgraded cam (.474 lift, 280 advertised duration) and headers, 3.55 gears. All else stock, including tranny and converter. No slicks, and traction was terrible at the strip (2.3 60 ft times). The car still went a best of 13.59 at 104 mph. Slick would have dropped the 60 ft times to approx. 2.0-1.9 range, resulting in about a 13 flat to 12.90 range.

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I used to have a 400 hp 340 in my Duster, with a high stall converter and 4.10s. And it was barely in the 12s.
I think you had some factory freaks that you never should have sold lol.

95teetee said:

I used to have a 400 hp 340 in my Duster, with a high stall converter and 4.10s. And it was barely in the 12s.
I think you had some factory freaks that you never should have sold lol.

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I saw a "built" 340 in a Volare with 4.11 gears and high stall go mid 14's. Yep, fender to fender with my 318 dart. I had a mild 360 in a 74 Dart Sport with 3.91's go 12.90's, and nope, it wasn't 400 horse.

I'm tempted to take a challenge here. Not to hi-jack this thread, but just to show "unbelievers" and "doubters" perhaps something that might inspire them. Believe me, fellow mopar friends, it is not to show anyone up. I have sort of left the 1/4 mile stuff for nice, fuel efficient drivers. However, I still go to the strip a couple times a year.
What would be said if I took my '65 Plymouth B-body (belvedere) and put it to the test. I replaced the 273 with a 100% bone stock 318 2bbl from a Dodge pickup. It does NOT have the roller cam, still flat tappet. I ran 15.90's ( I couldn't mash it because of wheel spin) at 84 mph with stock tranny, converter, and 2.94's. I have since added a 4bbl (which it appreciated). I'm thinking if it would inspire some that laugh at my numbers if I add 3.91's and hit something in the 14's, even a 14.99. You see, IF I can hit a 14.99 with a 100% stock 318 by just adding a 4bbl and 3.91's (NOTHING ELSE), could it inspire someone to believe that a 340 Duster (lighter car, better heads, much bigger bore, bigger cam, electronic ignition) should be a second faster???????? hmmmm..... maybe this would be fun! 15.90's, and since adding a 4bbl and going from 2.94's to 3.91's???? could I hit it???? Surely, Surely, this would never run with a 340 duster with same gearing. Hmmmm, I'm thinking...

1972/1973 'Duster 340'

Performance Results

'High Performance Car' {May 1972}......... 14.45 @ 95 MPH ~ {Automatic w/3.55 Gears}

'Car and Driver'........................................ 15.60 @ 89.5 MPH ~ {Automatic w/3.21 Gears}
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'1973 Mopar Factory Performance Book'

4-Speed ~ w/3.21 Gears............. 14.90 to 15.25
Automatic ~ w/3.21 Gears.......... 15.05 to 15.40

4-Speed ~ w/3.55 Gears............ 14.60 to 14.95
Automatic ~ w/3.55 Gears......... 14.75 to 15.10

I can believe a 340 auto with 3.55's going 14.45 at 95 with factory tires. A 318 2bbl could haze them factory tires, so one can only imagine a 340 having traction problems. I know a lady that bought a brand new '72 demon 340 auto with 3.91. With only 300 miles on it they took it to the strip and ran a 14.20 !

69 Cuda 440 said:

1972/1973 'Duster 340'

Performance Results

'High Performance Car' {May 1972}......... 14.45 @ 95 MPH ~ {Automatic w/3.55 Gears}

'Car and Driver'........................................ 15.60 @ 89.5 MPH ~ {Automatic w/3.21 Gears}
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My best friend Rick (RIP) factory ordered a NEW 1972 340 Duster. Sherwood Green, 3.23 SG, 4 speed, and that's about it for options other than a radio. As soon as the weather broke we took it to Dragway 42 in the spring. The only mod from stock was G70x14 Goodyear Polyglas on the rear in place of the stock E70's. He ran it one time because I was messing with the Dizzy and didn't make the call. I remember it like it was yesterday, and somewhere I have pictures. His single pass was 14.51 right off the street with about 3-4000 miles on the clock.

What I Never Saw,

A 'stock' 1972 or 1973 'Duster 340' or Dart 'Sport 340' with an Automatic and {3.23 or 3.21 Gears} break the 15.00 barrier.

Not On This Planet,,,,,,,,