3G Hemi vs LSx vs Ford Mod Motor - which is the 'best'? And which to put in mopar?
My stance has been the same from the very beginning. The hemi head is superior to the LSx head. It has not changed, so you saying 'where you're at now" doesn't apply - it's been the same stance the entire time.
I'll take that as a concession on your part that the hemi head is indeed superior to the LSx head, even if only minimally.
It's probably cheaper to put an LSx into a Miata or 240sx or rx7 than it is to put one in a mopar A body. Why? Because someone sells the parts to do it.
Here is exactly what I said:
"It's cheaper to put a Hemi in a Mopar body vs either of the other two. If you fabricate your own swap parts, or you find 'bolt in' shelf parts, that makes this a moot point. "
To spell it out further for you:
An LSx swap into an A body will need:
-engine mounts
-oil pan
-headers
Three options for these parts:
Fabricate them yourself (time intensive, low $$)
Pay someone to Fabricate them (minimal time, high $$$$)
Find something that fits off the shelf (potentially time intensive, medium $$$, probably still cheaper than shelf hemi swap parts)
Please explain to me how the cost of the swap parts is not a factor in the cost of putting an LSx in a Mopar A body? Until someone finds or produces shelf parts that put an LSx in a mopar A body, then the swap cost (time + money) will more often than not be higher than that of putting a hemi in.
It's the only argument that is needed. A given engine's potential is limited by the heads. Thank you for conceding the hemi heads are superior to the LSx heads.
I know you haven't bought a 3G hemi or an LSx motor, but have you truly priced them to see what you could get each for? I'd be curious to see what you can buy each for in your area.
Ugh this is just taxing now. You're delusional, deflecting, and uninterested in learning anything.
First off, i'll address the post directly above this one: Go find LXguy and spew your nonsense. You know as well as i do that i made it very clear that my view was specifically about street/strip cars without built engines. Bringing up LXguy just shows you're being intellectually dishonest to avoid facing the fact that you're wrong.
NOT useless engine master's dyno queen engines that if ever put into a car, would have such crap drivability that you would trailer the car everywhere. That is as pointless as the guy who brought up NHRA using hemis. Who cares? Not anyone who wants their car to work on a daily basis.
Arguing built engines is a waste of time. For example, the pos honda D16 series engine. Best case scenario they made 165hp(maybe?), and here is one making 700hp.
http://dsportmag.com/browse/featured-article/single-cam-slammer-700hp-civic
For fabrication: Did you look at the build here?? I studied those pictures pretty close. The oil pan is not terribly difficult. Spend time with a measuring tape and rotating the steering and then you'd have a shop spend an hour or two moving the sump. Not an insane task.
Engine mounts? Again, they arent excessively complex pieces. Time mocking up and you could get away with tack welding some mock up engine mounts and have a welding shop either fully weld them or make strong ones(depending upon your ability)
We're talking about 1-2k worth of labor. Did YOU price miata/240sx swap parts? I'm gonna bet no. So here you go:
NB miata(99-04?) is $3,850.00 for a full swap kit.
1st gen 240sx: $2,850.00 for a swap kit
So what we're left as is headers. Which price wise is still up in the air. The OP of that thread may find something that will work or he may have to break the bank on custom headers.
However given the extremely cheap starting price of the hemi, there is a very good chance that he would come out around the same price as someone doing a new hemi, but with a much much much better engine. After all, headers are no joy with a new hemi either. If you want power steering you have to spend 600 bucks on TTi's and hope they fit your car.
And i'll humor you on engine prices. I have priced both engines. Once for my duster before i did the 5.9 magnum swap, and once for an LS when i was thinking of dumping the 5cyl out of my truck.
Prices from this morning on car-part.com(You're more than welcome to double check this if you don't believe me. Put in Ca, zip of 95687)
All prices are based on "A" class engines. However for the chevies i stopped at the A prices just above the broken engine prices. As there are a few A's below broken engine prices which sets off my BS meter. This was not an issue with the hemi.
2003 4.8:
Cheapest 4.8: $770.24 with 105k.
Highest price: $1650 with 88k on the clock
2003 5.3:
Cheapest: $900 with 106k
Most expensive: 1400 with 110k
2003 5.7 hemi:
Cheapest hemi $1600 with 101k on the clock.
Most expensive: $2250 with 106k.
A core hemi would be 750-900 bucks. Possibily 400 if "engine block" is a long block. That's not terribly clear on the site.