Opinions please. 833 Clutch issues

-
emnestor

emnestor

emnestor
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
232
Reaction score
4
Location
Va Beach
340/ 4speed 833 NOT a diaphram pressure plate.

This trans is my Achilles Heel! I have had this trans in and out several times for one reason or another. It is completely rebuilt, new clutch, new pressure plate ( Hayes) from Brewers.

Everytime I mess with this trans something always changes. The problem I have now is that my clutch pedal is relatively easy ,but normal feeling, half way down. Then it firms up a bit. I have to go pretty close to the floor for it to disengage. It seems that only about the last inch is really disengaging the clutch so theres not alot of pedal action between being able to shift and not being able to. The kicker is that it is also, I think, over centering the clutch becuase I will start to feel a slight grind. This is with a tight adjust ment.
If I back the adjustment off when I go to the floor its not enough throw to disengage the clutch and shift.

The linkage is all moving correctly, but I should have a lot more clutch than just the bottom 1-2 inches

IDEAS???
 
I usually adjust the rod for 1/4"'' of play at the z bar and should have between 1/2 to 1'' at the pedal when done. if not look for a bent or broken weld on z bar ,the lower the clutch grabs lets you know it has plenty of lining left .
 
yesterday I over tightened it just to see if it disengages better, which it did but it def over centers.When I back it off I dont have enough clutch. There doesnt seem to be a middle ground. It seems my adjusting rod would have to be pretty loose to get that 1/4 of play at the Rod. I'll give it a try today just for a comparison.
 
I ruined a clutch by just adjusting the pedal free play I had always adjusted them that way and never had a problem. I put a new clutch in and the throw-out bearing rode on the pressure plate fingers until it damaged the bearing and chewed up the fingers. Now I remove the inspection cover and adjust the linkage so that the bearing clears the fingers by .030 or so. (I don't measure just adjust so there is a gap between the two) I crawl out from underneath and cycle the pedal a couple times then double check it. This procedure works best for me. tmm
 
toolmanmike said:
I ruined a clutch by just adjusting the pedal free play I had always adjusted them that way and never had a problem. I put a new clutch in and the throw-out bearing rode on the pressure plate fingers until it damaged the bearing and chewed up the fingers. Now I remove the inspection cover and adjust the linkage so that the bearing clears the fingers by .030 or so. (I don't measure just adjust so there is a gap between the two) I craul out from underneath and cycle the pedal a couple times then double check it. This procedure works best for me. tmm
Click to expand...

This is how I originaly adjuted it but I didnt have enough clutch that way. I over adjusted just to see if I could get more out of it. Seems that when its adjusted correctly its very hard to shift into gear, especially reverse. I have to push it way into the floor as well.
 
I'm by no means an expert, but are you sure you have the right release fork for your application? I have a 273 4-speed and the fork is definately shorter than the one that fits on my 71 Barracuda 340 4-speed. It seems to me if the fork was a little too long you would experience these issues.
 
mopardude62 said:
I'm by no means an expert, but are you sure you have the right release fork for your application? I have a 273 4-speed and the fork is definately shorter than the one that fits on my 71 Barracuda 340 4-speed. It seems to me if the fork was a little too long you would experience these issues.
Click to expand...

I guess I will double check that. Ill see if I can see a part number.
 
when you put the clutch on did you lay the disc on the flywheel and check to make sure the disc didn't hit the flywheel bolts, this can be a problem with flywheels that were turned too much. I always sit the bolts in the flywheel then place the disc flat and look for clearance between them this burned me once so I check it every time even with the correct flywheel bolts.
 
teringer said:
when you put the clutch on did you lay the disc on the flywheel and check to make sure the disc didn't hit the flywheel bolts, this can be a problem with flywheels that were turned too much. I always sit the bolts in the flywheel then place the disc flat and look for clearance between them this burned me once so I check it every time even with the correct flywheel bolts.
Click to expand...

Yep. this is not an issue. I learned that one once:violent1:
 
Sounds like possibly some wrong parts in the linkage, or some lost motion somewhere, causing you to not have enough travel. Is it the proper Z bar, has it been modified? Is the ball stud and bracket tight, is the outer ball stud flexing in the inner fender, are the Z bar bushings in good shape? Do you have an A body bellhousing with the correct mounting location for the ball stud bracket? Is the over center spring still in the car (on the clutch pedal)? As you probably know people remove it when they install a diaphragm clutch. Without it the pedal would not pull all the way back up and unload the linkage.

Just some rambling thoughts....
 
d55dave said:
Sounds like possibly some wrong parts in the linkage, or some lost motion somewhere, causing you to not have enough travel. Is it the proper Z bar, has it been modified? Is the ball stud and bracket tight, is the outer ball stud flexing in the inner fender, are the Z bar bushings in good shape? Do you have an A body bellhousing with the correct mounting location for the ball stud bracket? Is the over center spring still in the car (on the clutch pedal)? As you probably know people remove it when they install a diaphragm clutch. Without it the pedal would not pull all the way back up and unload the linkage.

Just some rambling thoughts....
Click to expand...

The first thing I learned was that I have a 72 bell housing which requires a 1 year special ball stud. that one drove me crazy. My Z Bar has had one mod. I cut one arm and welded it back in the same spot only rotated it 3/32 forward for clearance. My clutch has always worked fine with this before. I did notice that my Zbar has never been at a true perpendicular angle from the fender to the block, but my clutch has worked fine before. So Im sure some of these things could be an issue but Watching my linkage work it has plenty of movement to operate correctly. after all it did work before. Anyone know the part number on the clutch fork?
 
emnestor said:
... My clutch has always worked fine with this before. I did notice that my Zbar has never been at a true perpendicular angle from the fender to the block, but my clutch has worked fine before. So Im sure some of these things could be an issue but Watching my linkage work it has plenty of movement to operate correctly. after all it did work before...
Click to expand...

I would guess from these statements your Pressure Plate is not up to snuff, or there is deflection or breakage somewhere that you can not see. Had a Z-bar break through the tube with a big block Borg and Beck pressure plate. I've had adjusting rods break also with that set up. Brewers Performance has the parts and descriptions online if you want to double check what you have or need.
 
do you have the correct release bearing some may be longer then others I 've had this on a bowtie once (too short) threw everything out, diaphragm clutch with a finger bearing.
 
One other thought - on the last 4 speed car that I put together the angle bracket that that bolts to the inside of the bellhousing, the one that the fork clips into, was cracked. I fab'd a new one up out of thicker steel, it worked great. I would suggest pull the lower cover and boot back on the fork and watch with a light as someone cycles the clutch pedal, there must be some lost motion somewhere.
 
with all the things that can go wrong you do know how they ever got it right!
 
Are you sure you have the correct pivot point in the bell housing ?

I don't think this is something we can fix here. I think you need to get under there and have someone step on the clutch to see what happens.

:)
 
SoI got back under the car last night. I have the correct parts, and I watch the linkage as someone steps on the clutch. It works smoothly, and seems to have plenty of throw. So.... in theory if I adjust the clutch to normal specs and it is overcentering the clutch I would say that I have more than enough throw in the clutch. With that said Why do I still have to go fractions short of over centering it to get it to release for a smooth shift? Also if I tighten the adjustment even more I should have a smooth release about halfway to the floor, but I do not. It seems like there is no middle.
The other thing that was strange is that while on a steep hill it was not overcentering any more when I go to the floor. Weird!

I'm starting to think that maybe the clutch is fine but that maybe the pilot bushing is ever so slightly catchin on the pilot shaft and still spinning the trans when I try to shift. I went through this issue before but thought it was solved and it was.

Also could it be a bad throw out bearing I am feeling and hearing rather than the clutch over centering?
 
emnestor said:
340/ 4speed 833 NOT a diaphram pressure plate.

This trans is my Achilles Heel! I have had this trans in and out several times for one reason or another. It is completely rebuilt, new clutch, new pressure plate ( Hayes) from Brewers.

Everytime I mess with this trans something always changes. The problem I have now is that my clutch pedal is relatively easy ,but normal feeling, half way down. Then it firms up a bit. I have to go pretty close to the floor for it to disengage. It seems that only about the last inch is really disengaging the clutch so theres not alot of pedal action between being able to shift and not being able to. The kicker is that it is also, I think, over centering the clutch becuase I will start to feel a slight grind. This is with a tight adjust ment.
If I back the adjustment off when I go to the floor its not enough throw to disengage the clutch and shift.

The linkage is all moving correctly, but I should have a lot more clutch than just the bottom 1-2 inches

IDEAS???
Click to expand...
I had an issue just like this and it ended up being a bad trans mount , when i pushed the pedal down it was moving the trans side to side
 
mopar jimmie said:
I had an issue just like this and it ended up being a bad trans mount , when i pushed the pedal down it was moving the trans side to side
Click to expand...

Interesting. i dont think I noticed the trans moving but I really wasn't looking for it. I actually did think about the mount though because I have noticed some slicht location changes in my shift linkage compared to the headers and I recently just reinstalled the crossmember and trans mount. I will def look for this. Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top