Trunk mounted battery

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Fst73_360 said:
The one i got was water proof ****... I looked the moroso but I don't think it was waterproof hmm
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Most of the quality cutoff switches are pretty weather resilient. I've used the Moroso, Cole and Taylor ones without any failures due to exposure. Regardless of what some snarky dillholes say, safety rules from sanctioning bodies have their basis in some sort of fact. Rob and Dell are absolutely correct.

(The bomber guy is right, too. You just can't tell him that cuz he gets all full of himself and he's hard to live with for at least a week until the ego swelling goes down.) :D
 
crackedback said:


Here I made this one up just now. Stacked relays, wiring...
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I'll probably realize later why these are dumb questions, but I'm just trying to figure all this out because I'll be wiring up my car soon and want to do it right the first time. As of now, I think I want to use this diagram:

1) I'm using 2-wire alternator. How does this change things?

2) I already bought a 4-pole cutoff switch. Can I still use it, or should I get a 2-pole?

Also, does anyone have part #'s for the Ford and/or Jeep relay and the CD relay? I swear I saw them in this or another thread, but cannot find them now.

Thanks!
 
Actually you don't HAVE to change anything................

But If you want to utilize the 4 terminal switch, it would / could save one large gauge wire "to the rear."

Move the alternator output to the start relay battery stud. This elimates that large gauge wire.

Run two no 14 wires from front to rear to the small switch terminals.

Use those to break the control line (blue) to the CD relay. You now would not need a CD solenoid, you could use a smaller Bosch style relay

Use the relay contacts to break either the alternator field or the ignition system.

If you have an MSD ignition, you can also eliminate the CD solenoid / Bosch relay.

You could use the small disconnect terminals to break the small red control line to the MSD box

Any of this will cause the engine to stop.
 
CD relay borg warner S605. I believe the Napa ST-85 may be the same, verify the st-85 is a continuous duty.

Starter relay, any ford starter relay from a 65-73 car should work. Pick a model and go. Jeep just look around on rock auto for a picture of a relay that looks similar to the ford unit, mid 80's will be close.

I like the relays that don't need a ground wire, internally grounded units. Less clutter.

There are drawbacks to EVERY master cut off solution. You have to pick which potential deficiency you can live with if the system fails. There are some that if a single component fails in a closed position, the car won't stop when the master is turned off. Others, it doesn't matter if the relays lock open or closed, the car dies.
 
Thanks guys. My achilles heel is electrical systems, which I'm going to put the effort in this year to alleviate. Just have to get the engine in place, then the wiring begins.
 
You can use the 4 pole to kill the excite wire to your alternator if it has an external regulator. That should kill any output from the alternator.
 
I got it all wired up. Now I am doing the accessory wiring for the rest of the car.

When I mount the 4 pole kill switch, it says that I can mount it at the rear most of the car. Would mounting it in the trunk lock hole be okay? It's well labeled and everything.
 
I am having an issue now Cracked. The wire that is suppose to go to a switched 12 off of the CD relay, I can not figure out where to hook it up because everything that get's power in the car does not get any power until this wire gets power, if that makes sense. This means if I was to hook this wire up directly to the battery, everything that is switched 12v can now get power when I turn the key. However, if I hook this wire up to a switched 12v, nothing would get power.

I can tell when the CD relay has power because it "clicks". Is this relay suppose to make the clicking sound and stay locked on or click on and then click off?
 
Where does the wire on the downstream side of your master cut off go?

If that wire goes to the CD relay, it's wrong.

If wired correctly, when the master is on, you should get power to your key and all functions in the car sans the main charge wire.
 
crackedback said:
Where does the wire on the downstream side of your master cut off go?

If that wire goes to the CD relay, it's wrong.

If wired correctly, when the master is on, you should get power to your key and all functions in the car sans the main charge wire.
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I have it wired exactly like the picture in Post #1 is for now because that was the only way I could get power to everything in the car. And now when I turn the kill switch off, nothing gets power.

Left side of kill switch runs to Mopar relay, right side runs to ford starter relay. I have the the wire you have colored blue on the CD going to the side of the master kill switch on the side of the wire that runs to the mopar relay because that was the only way to get power to it and have it be able to turn all power off when the kill switch is off
 
crackedback said:
Really? Been wiring cars for close to 25 years using this style set up. Never failed a NHRA tech inspection yet.

The alt line solenoid IS NOT a ford starter solenoid. It's a continuous duty relay. If the CD relay happened to lock closed, you are in no worse position than the folks that wire straight from the alt to battery positive post. The direct alt line passes tech every week and has for 40+ years.

One change to make if you are driving a street car. The line that energizes the Alt line CD relay should come from a switched/keyed source. The way it's wired in the above schematic will have a constant draw when the master power switch is in the on position. May run the battery down if you forget to switch off the master when parked for any duration of time.

Poison, HaHa, you could also use a Jeep solenoid... LOL :)
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Basically I wired it like a non street car because when trying to wire it like a street car, I could not get power to the CD. Unless I run the wire to a switch in the car and flip that switch before I start the car, like I would with the fuel pump.
 
Why do you care if the CD relay is powered when the engine is off?

The basis is that the CD relay is hot when the key is in on/run or possibly accessory position. Otherwise, the cd relay is a constant drain when the master is turned on.

Find a wire that is hot when the key is turned ON. If you aren't running a heater, the heater power wire is a good choice.
 
crackedback said:
Why do you care if the CD relay is powered when the engine is off?

The basis is that the CD relay is hot when the key is in on/run or possibly accessory position. Otherwise, the cd relay is a constant drain when the master is turned on.

Find a wire that is hot when the key is turned ON. If you aren't running a heater, the heater power wire is a good choice.
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I am not sure if I do. I am not using the original wiring from mopar. I am using an American Autowire kit. And I understand what you are telling me to do, but what I am telling you is nothing in the dash is getting power unless the CD is powered up. SO I believe what I need to do is just wire a switch for the CD in the car and mount in dash to flip before having to start the car, sort of like another kill switch so that the CD gets power when I flip it.
 
Pretty simple, move where the wiring harness is picking up power.

Sounds like it's pulling off the alternator stud or along that circuit. Move it to the mopar relay if you still have it.
 
crackedback said:
Pretty simple, move where the wiring harness is picking up power.

Sounds like it's pulling off the alternator stud or along that circuit. Move it to the mopar relay if you still have it.
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That makes sense. The kit included a 175amp or something fuse in the kit which I used in place of the ALT stud that you use. I was using this in case something was to happen. But I see where I went wrong. The wiring harness needs to be wired to the starter relay.
 
Apparently I blew the CD relay somehow. I guess I need a new one. Even when I run the wire that is suppose to be switched 12v on the CD directly to the battery + it doesn't get power to the alt hooked up side. Whomp.
 
Jump around it for now. Does it activate if you run a line from battery to the stud?
 
72bluNblu said:
Only the crappy ones. See any plastic here?

mor-74100_ml.jpg


CB and 67Dart273 are right on. Do it right the first time. Might cost more up front, but it'll be cheaper (and safer) in the long run.

The battery cutoff for the track is a safety item. It's there, and required to be a specific way, for your safety. Why would you want to mess with that?
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Reference... Stick with it,ran racing on it ,with rain . This is what you want. (More opinion, the cheap stuff fails,when it's hammer time .
 
crackedback said:
How big is the alternator?

Wire from Alt to continous duty solenoid: 4 or 6 gauge
Wire from CD solenoid to Master disconnect switch: 14-16 Little to no load trigger with key
Wire from CD solenoid to Batt pos or Ford solenoid battery side: 4-6 gauge
Wire from Battery ground to car: I assume 0-1 gauge
Wire from CD solenoid to + on Battery: 4-6 same as wire from cd to ford relay above
Wire from + on battery to Ford Solenoid: 1/0 or bigger
Jumper wire from post to post on Starter: 14
Wire from starter big post to Ford Solenoid: 1/0 or bigger
Wire from Ford solenoid to Mopar relay: 14-16
Wire from Master disconnect to Mopar relay: 8-10

If you pull headlights and electric fans straight off the alt post, that will reduce the load on the wire from the master disconnect to mopar relay.

Visualize the two relays/solenoids stacked on top of each other in the schematic. The alt line runs in one side of the CD relay and you make a short jumper to the battery + side of the ford/jeep starter relay. Makes things a bit cleaner.

Here's a pretty good wire sizing chart.
WiresizingchartBW.jpg
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Hey, cracked. I am going to wire my Dart like your schematic. When you offered your wire gauge description you mentioned a "Wire from CD* solenoid* to* Master disconnect switch" yet in your schematic I don't see a dedicated wire running from the CD to the switch. Would you elaborate a bit on this? Also you mention running the fan from the bat side of the alternator...if the alt is not running would I still have juice to run the fan with the car off? Lastly, are you familiar with Spaghetti Menders? I have his system in my car and wonder how you would integrate your wiring schematic with that. Here's a link to Spaghetti Menders wiring schematic: [ame]http://www.spaghettimenders.com/Spaghetti%20Menders%20Website%20Photos%203-30-12/Challenger_2_System.pdf[/ame]. Page 8 is the overview. Thanks. Great post.
 
MnDartSwagger said:
Hey, cracked. I am going to wire my Dart like your schematic. When you offered your wire gauge description you mentioned a "Wire from CD* solenoid* to* Master disconnect switch" yet in your schematic I don't see a dedicated wire running from the CD to the switch. Would you elaborate a bit on this? Also you mention running the fan from the bat side of the alternator...if the alt is not running would I still have juice to run the fan with the car off? Lastly, are you familiar with Spaghetti Menders? I have his system in my car and wonder how you would integrate your wiring schematic with that. Here's a link to Spaghetti Menders wiring schematic: http://www.spaghettimenders.com/Spaghetti Menders Website Photos 3-30-12/Challenger_2_System.pdf. Page 8 is the overview. Thanks. Great post.
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One of my friends likes to use SM stuff in his cars. He likes the product.

The schematics are geared more towards a car with factory wiring using a key to start them. Have to make some tweaks with aftermarket wiring systems.

Dedicated race car? Wire the CD relay to the downstream side of the kill switch. The line to the alt is dead when the master kill is off.

If you are using a factory column key to start, there is a second schematic in the thread with the cd relay trigger going to a keyed source. Set it up so when the key is in acc or run position the line to the CD relay trigger is hot. You'd have to leave the key in that position to have your fan running with engine off.

Or run the power for the fans from kill switch downstream side. You need to figure out how to get the fan relay 30 terminal hot at all times.

I'd probably pull power from the kill switch downstream side for your fan.
 
crackedback said:
One of my friends likes to use SM stuff in his cars. He likes the product.

The schematics are geared more towards a car with factory wiring using a key to start them. Have to make some tweaks with aftermarket wiring systems.

Dedicated race car? Wire the CD relay to the downstream side of the kill switch. The line to the alt is dead when the master kill is off.

If you are using a factory column key to start, there is a second schematic in the thread with the cd relay trigger going to a keyed source. Set it up so when the key is in acc or run position the line to the CD relay trigger is hot. You'd have to leave the key in that position to have your fan running with engine off.

Or run the power for the fans from kill switch downstream side. You need to figure out how to get the fan relay 30 terminal hot at all times.

I'd probably pull power from the kill switch downstream side for your fan.
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This is a dedicated race car with an external SM switch panel with ignition on switch and momentary start switch. I also question the need for the Mopar four connection relay that you typically find on inner fender. With the schematic at the SM link, is it even necessary with the CD relay and the Ford relay?? Thanks for the reply...
 
If it's an automatic, you need some method of neutral safety. That is part of the reason for the Mopar relay. There exists a couple of "Ford style" starter relays, at least one was used on AMC products. These had THREE small terminals and two main large ones.

Two of them hook up just like Ford, IE solenoid and IGN bypass. The third went to ground through the NSS just like the Mopar starter relay

Here's one now:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...ck=Search_01931_1006568_-1&pt=01931&ppt=C0330

The quick connect "post" terminal in the rear is the NSS terminal

s607_primary.jpg


s607_connector.jpg
 
crackedback said:
Jump around it for now. Does it activate if you run a line from battery to the stud?
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I replaced it. It would not work if I ran a line from the little post to the battery. The new one works. I believe that little post broke for the connection because it was loose and the new one is not. We are good now.
 
crackedback said:
You can cut the field, BUT, the charge wire is STILL HOT ALL THE TIME!

What are the termination points for that charge wire? You running that through a toggle as well?

Here's a method that lots of people use and passes tech. See where the issue may lie?

[URL="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/crackedback/Electrical/trunkbattwire1.jpg"][/URL]
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I found this post looking how to wire my one wire alternator and moving the battery to the trunk.
Thanks Crackedback! :salut:
 
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