69 Dart GTS 383 4 Speed Completely Original

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Joe Tork

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I just recently acquired a 69 Dart GTS with a 383 4 speed. The car is completely bone stock original. The original owner died in 1976 and the car hasn't been driven since then. The last time it was started was in 1988. There are 43,400 original miles on this car with no rust. It has been kept in a garage and never seen the snow or salt from the harsh PA winters. I got the car running about 3 weeks ago. I had to replace the fuel tank, fuel pump and lines, rebuilt the carb, all new brakes and lines, master cylinder, new alternator, points, plugs, wires, rebuilt radiator, etc. I have put about 500 miles on the car and everything was working pretty much fine until last weekend. As can be expected with a 45 year old car there are issues that will need to be worked out. So last weekend we had the car out and on the way home it started raining so I had the lights, wipers, and defrost on. My lights started to dim and the alternator was showing that it was discharging. I assume that the problem was a voltage regulator so I replaced the original with a cheap made in china deal and it worked for about a day. Now the car is doing the same thing dimming lights and discharging. I am clueless when it comes to electrical issues so I am wondering if the problem is just a cheap part or could there be more underlying electrical issues. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
I had something similar, and it was indeed the alternator HOWEVER when I replaced the alternator I continued to have the same problem which sent me down different roads - but it ended up that the alternator I bought was dead in the box, and as soon as I tried another alternator, the problem was resolved.

So - if you buy an alternator, see if they have the ability to bench test it before you take it home and put it in. Good luck!
 
The main issue with Mopar wiring is the bulkhead connector. From sitting that long, the connections are probably corroded and not making good contact. This is a dangerous situation because this could cause a fire. Pull the bulkhead connector apart and clean/inspect the connections. Once it's clean, reassemble with dielectric grease on all the terminal ends.

Also, make sure all your grounds are good. New voltage regulators are available that look stock but contain modern electronics inside. I would look for one of these.
 
@burdar and Cuda Bob thanks for your input. I am actually a little embarrassed that I'm not sure what you mean when you say bulkhead connector. What is is and where is it located? Wiring and electrical are definitely not my thing but I'm trying to learn.
 
The square connector that has all the wires going through the firewall. Look behind the driver side valve cover.
 
Regardless of the charging issue that you have some advice on, we would really like to see some pic's......
 
Does it seem fine when all those accessories are off ? If crusty wiper pivots and a heater core clogged with debris causes those electric motors to draw excessively, other electrical components will fail, like ALT' gauge and/or its connections or bulkhead connections.
To ignore the root of the problem and bypass those points of failure is a popular route. It's definitely the easier and less expensive route.
 
Yeah, where at in PA? maybe I can come over and give you a hand...sounds like the alternator to me too....Welcome to the site
 
@RedFish It does it even without anything on. I haven't had time to try and clean the bulkhead connections yet. I'll try that this weekend. Here are some pics of the day I picked it up.
 

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Wow, could you say what kind of a deal you got on it?
 
You Stole It. I'm envious. That car is probably worth 3 or 4 times that, especially if It's numbers matching.
 
It didn't run when I got it. I probably got about that much into it just getting it running again and there's a long way to go. Nothing ever been done to that car it's all original so the numbers all match.
 
Fixed, otherwise the oil may have leaked out through the dipstick!
 

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I am EXTREMLY jealous of u finding and buying that car for so cheap beautiful car
 
if you replaced the regulator with a cheap offshore one and it charged for a day and then quit, that's the first place i would look.
They have contact points in them, and if you take the cover off, you can see if the points look bad.
I would have the alternator tested, clean up the wiring, and install a newer constant voltage regulator on it.
Nice car BTW, and a smokin' deal to boot!
 
burdar said:
The main issue with Mopar wiring is the bulkhead connector. From sitting that long, the connections are probably corroded and not making good contact. This is a dangerous situation because this could cause a fire. Pull the bulkhead connector apart and clean/inspect the connections. Once it's clean, reassemble with dielectric grease on all the terminal ends.

Also, make sure all your grounds are good. New voltage regulators are available that look stock but contain modern electronics inside. I would look for one of these.
Click to expand...


X2!!
The bulkhead connector is the #1 place I look when things start going flaky. Look on the firewall near where the steering column protrudes through, it's a rectangular black thing with a bunch of wires going into it. Now go inside the car and find the mate. Unplug one from the other and look at the connectors. Pay special attention to the heavy red and black wire connections. ALL of the power is fed to the fuse block, etc. and back through those which barely were sufficient when new. I'm pretty sure NAPA, for one, has replacement terminals if they're toast.
4seconds.com has a pretty good explanation of the inadequacies. It would probably be a very good idea to check the ground connections in the engine compartment. Disassemble and clean.

Put me on the list of jealous fools. Nice car!
 
You need to...........

Download a free factory manual, here

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1970088617

and more manuals and other stuff here

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

Read the manual, section 8 about alternators. We can step you through some simplified tests

PLEASE READ this article. You don't have to DO this mod, just read the article

http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml

It does a couple of things for you. First, it points out the pitfalls and the whys of the wiring in these old girls Second, there's a simplified diagram on that page which shows a good overview of the major electrical distribution in these cars

THINGS to watch for. As I said, we can step you through

Can you post the part no and better yet a photo of the newest alternator you have? The rebuilders of late "play games." Here's the thing. THERE ARE three or four major "big splits" in the types of alternators that would fit and be made to work--------without mechanical alterations------on your car

They are............

1......First year up through 69 alternator which has a single field connection, and one grounded brush

2.....1970---73? so called "round back" with isolated field, that is, TWO insulated brushes.

3.....1969 /earlier CONVERTED to insulated brush by the cheap rebuilders

4......73? and later so called "square back" with isolated brushes.

Your car has the "early" style regulator that is one insulated brush holder. You can use the LATER alternators (1970/ later) by grounding either brush and hooking up to yours as per normal

================================

The problems..........................

you might have inadvertently gotten an isolated field unit, either original or rebuilder converted, meaning one brush still needs to be grounded to work

you might have a defective rebuilt alternator, not uncommon

you might have yet another defective regulator, not uncommon with today's "Chineseo" junk


VERY FIRST THING TO TRY

First, buy yourself some tools if you do not have them. Buy a bag or two of Radio Shack test clip leads. Buy a digital multimeter. Everybody sells these nowadays, parts stores, Sears, Lowes, etc

But a 12V test lamp and a spark tester gap from the parts store.

Unhook the green field wire at the alternator. Hook a clip lead from the big alternator stud to the field terminal on the alternator. BE CAREFUL. That big stud is HOT and IS NOT FUSED.

In subdued light, you should see a small spark. Start the engine, bring up RPM. The ammeter should show charge, more as RPM comes up.

Post back with this result
 
For reference, below is the original type belongs on your car at right. You can barely make out the grounded brush at about 5 o'clock or so. The insulated brush is at about 7-8 o'clock

On the left is a mid to late 70's so called squareback. These are a better design. You can use them in your car in two ways. First, just ground either brush (field). Otherwise, use the 70 / later regulator and add one more wire to the harness

http://image.moparmusclemagazine.co...tor_and_regulators+replacement_alternator.jpg

Below is one of my favorite things to ***** about. This is a 69 / earlier alternator which some cheap a$$ rebuilder has drilled an extra hole to mount a second, isolated brush so they can sell it as a 70 / later alternator. PROBLEM. You can accidently get these with both grounded and isolated brush installed, causing a short, they don't use factory brushes, and generally, "not the way" things are done

http://www.hemmings.com/story_image/128306-500-0.jpg?rev=1

Below we have a 70 - 73? alternator known as a "roundback" It works the same as the "squareback" pictured earlier. It has TWO isolated field connections. You can use either this type or the squareback on your car with the original type regulator, by grounding either field, and hooking the rest up

I say "73?" because I'm not sure when Ma switched over from round to square back. 73, 74, all models may not have been changed at once, and might have depended on the factory

 
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