Help with strange knock???

-
emnestor

emnestor

emnestor
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
232
Reaction score
4
Location
Va Beach
72 Dart Swinger 340 4 speed with factory discs up front

For quite sometime I have had a strange knock that I feel through the steering wheel. I have a very radical motor so I'm used to it jumping around a bit( occasional header bang etc..) With that said I have constantly kept an eye on my motor mounts and there doesn't seem to be any movement in them. I also once had my steering box loosen up on me and sort of got the same feeling, so I have consistently checked its tightness. So recently I noticed I seem to get the knock I feel in the steering wheel when I am coming to a stop, even at low speeds. I always thought it was my motor jumping around but now I'm starting to think there might be something in my drivers side suspension that may be causing this. I kept thinking why would the brakes make my motor jump around. The brakes themselves are fine, so why am I feeling this knocking in my steering wheel. also its not a constant knocking its mostly as Im stopping and returning to idle, and occasionally when I am sitting still.
Opinions please?
 
I would check your Idler and Pitman for wear, then look at the tie rod end links. After that, check UCA and LCA / Strut.
 
Could also be a warped rotor making the pads jump around.
 
It's the shoes in the steering coupler. Get a new coupler or rebuild yours and it will be gone.
 
Wow, quite a bit to check. At this point I am positive its not a brake or bearing issue. The car has new everything since it was restored a year ago. The struts might be a possibility. Perhaps I need to crank down on them a bit more.
Steering coupler.... I hadn't thought of that but would I feel such a heavy knock through my steering wheel like the motor is hitting it?
 
While you're throwing questions back at us, you could be checking it out. You have the car and all the evidence in front of you not us. Forum help only goes so far. You have to provide some, too. All I know is, you described to a TEE what my 65 Valiant was doing. I traced the noise right to the steering coupler. Rebuilt it and the noise was gone. Grab the coupler body in one hand the steering shaft in the other and twist them opposite directions alternating. If that's what it is, a blind deaf mute could tell.

Nothing personal meant, but I just cannot understand why so many people rely so heavily on the internet for this stuff. It's not rocket science. These cars were built by people, not aliens, 40 plus years ago. Those folks put their pants on same as you and me one leg at a time. No magic involved. These cars are like stones and bearskins. You're never going to learn how they work or how they tick until you go out there in the driveway where IT is and grab hold of it. Whether it's the steering coupler, or whatever, the answer is not here. It's in the driveway sittin on four tires. We can help with suggestions, but unless you actually DO them, we are of zero help.
 
RustyRatRod said:
While you're throwing questions back at us, you could be checking it out. You have the car and all the evidence in front of you not us. Forum help only goes so far. You have to provide some, too. All I know is, you described to a TEE what my 65 Valiant was doing. I traced the noise right to the steering coupler. Rebuilt it and the noise was gone. Grab the coupler body in one hand the steering shaft in the other and twist them opposite directions alternating. If that's what it is, a blind deaf mute could tell.

Nothing personal meant, but I just cannot understand why so many people rely so heavily on the internet for this stuff. It's not rocket science. These cars were built by people, not aliens, 40 plus years ago. Those folks put their pants on same as you and me one leg at a time. No magic involved. These cars are like stones and bearskins. You're never going to learn how they work or how they tick until you go out there in the driveway where IT is and grab hold of it. Whether it's the steering coupler, or whatever, the answer is not here. It's in the driveway sittin on four tires. We can help with suggestions, but unless you actually DO them, we are of zero help.
Click to expand...

I have not been home since this post, so I have not had the time to get after it yet. I have been through a number of these " cross that off the list" checks already. I am hoping that by asking for opinions I may save myself some time and or have someone fill me in on something I never would have thought of like yourself. Thanks. Now with that said I will manually check the coupler and hope that you are right, when I finally get home. My issue does not make any noise its just a feeling through the steering wheel like the motor hitting the steering box. The noise would certainly make it easier to find. Thanks and take it easy my man.
 
Kinda hard to get a handle on this one (for me at least). Is this knock only felt through the steering wheel or also through the floor boards to any degree? ANd does it occur when you apply the brakes or when the car actually stops, or ????
 
nm9stheham said:
Kinda hard to get a handle on this one (for me at least). Is this knock only felt through the steering wheel or also through the floor boards to any degree? ANd does it occur when you apply the brakes or when the car actually stops, or ????
Click to expand...

I only notice it in the steering wheel. It feels like the motor is jumping around and maybe a header or something is hitting the steering box. feels rather heavy. I do not feel it all the time, mainly when I'm coming to a stop or slowing down after opening her up. Like as the motor is settling back to idle conditions. I do not feel any of this through the brakes. As, i said earlier the motor is pretty radical and does jump around a bit and I assumed it was a header or something knocking into the steering but it isn't. I just recently put it together that the braking had some correlation to it. I am going to check the steering coupler as stated above. It has to be that or something in the suspension itself.
 
If what you say is true about feeling this sitting still on occasion, most of these posts may not help you. I'd start with the steering column. If the engine idles radically it may really be you shaking the wheel and feeling a bad coupler.
 
emnestor said:
I" cross that off the list"
Click to expand...

This ^^^^ is exactly what I was getting at. Obviously, you have some brains. Most times people ask for help and get a response, they argue. "Noit can't be that!". It's not about being right, it's about a process of elimination and you seem to understand. Your description sounds exactly like what mine was. It actually sounded like a bottom end knock, but of course it was not. It didn't do it all the time, but dang near it.
 
I would do the Rusty check first. If its not there, then; -When the front end was rebuilt, were rubber bushings used, and were the control arm nuts tightened at ride height? If the nuts were tightened with the suspension at full droop, then the the rubber bushings will be preloaded. this may be manifested as a slow to settle front-end. Then if one of the new shocks has a tight seal it may stick-release on the rebound stroke. This makes a very distinct sound(may not be heard with engine running) and I would imagine it could be felt as a vague knock in the steering wheel. You may have to jack the front end up(under the K) to prove this, but do not lift the wheels off the floor during this test, as it will not settle properly, if Im right. If poly bushings were installed the preloading may not be an issue,however its still possible that a shock is sticking. -Or a lower shock mount is loose or has excessive clearance.
 
I broke the mount under the steering box on my 340 Challenger once. Lots of strange bumps and steering wheel felt weird. When the car was not running it looked fine. Revved the engine with the hood up and whooooa look at that engine roll in the engine bay!
I swapped out the K member as a fix.
 
So I finally made it home last night and checked the coupler. That thing is tight. No slack at all. So again I did a visual check of the suspension and didn't see anything out of the ordinary and the strut rods seem to be cranked down pretty far and are to torque specs. I did notice that my drivers side front is lower than the passenger side. Hmm... now its time to jog my old memory.Last year I installed super stock springs and I know that the rear passenger side will tend to ride higher with them installed, hence making the drivers front sit a bit low. This is the part where I ask myself "Was it always like that or did this just slowly creep in and now I notice it?" Im going to assume that it may have something to do with my issue. Either way I need to level that front end out.

AJ/Forms you may be on to something. I believe we did use rubber bushings. So as I get some free time I am going to dig into that suspension.

Cichlidart- I had my steering box loosen up on me right after we restored it and I remember it rolling and making the steering crazy. Good idea to check the actual KFrame. as soon as I can get hold of a second set of hands I need to rev and let the motor settle and see what I am getting.

Ok so after checking the steering I took it for a quick run up the road. I wanted to be sure I am describing this correctly. This knock is always about 3 times together no noises and it feels like an engine wobble not a hard clank. It happens mostly at a slow speed stops. Just before coming to a complete stop. Only felt in the steering. I keep asking my self " If it is really the engine bouncing around why would applying the brakes make it act up?"

thanks folks
 
AJ/FormS said:
By any chance, might it be in sync with the wheel rotation?
Click to expand...

Funny you ask... I spent last night looking over the suspension again and everything seems to be fine. I do need to crank that torsion bar up a bit though. i put it up on stands and compressed the suspension on both sides and checked the return as well. all good.
I started thinking about the steering and sat in the drive rotating the wheels back and forth to see if I could feel it. Nothing. The more I thought about it though I have noticed the same wobbly feeling knock before while turning the steering, but not very often.

So at this point I have a wobbly knock usually felt in 3 s through my steering which occurs under non harsh braking and occasionally when I do a turn while moving very slow like coming out of the garage or driveway and feels like the motor jumping and settling.

I did tighten the steering box down again lately just to be sure, however as soon as I can get someone out here I will watch the motor and steering with the hood up.
 
Thought about installing one of Schumachers Torque Straps just to eliminate the possibility of the mounts causing this problem. either way my motor could use it.
 
Well I guess I was wrong once. Let me try again. Is this a power steering car? Like I said, most of this stuff may not help if this problem occurs when the car is motionless. Try taking the belt off, or you could take it out of gear and bring the engine speed up a bit when braking or turning.
 
magnumdart said:
Well I guess I was wrong once. Let me try again. Is this a power steering car? Like I said, most of this stuff may not help if this problem occurs when the car is motionless. Try taking the belt off, or you could take it out of gear and bring the engine speed up a bit when braking or turning.
Click to expand...

You think it maybe in the power steering? Good idea. Ill try bringing the rpms up before stopping and see if I feel it and then remove the belt and take it for a quick spin when I get back home in a couple of days.
 
There have been some very bad issues with rubber products the last 5 or 10 years - problems with them deteriorating in a big hurry. Some people attribute it to cheap offshore stuff, but even moog and other "good" suppliers have had issues. The point is, don't rule things out such as bushings or engine mounts because they were new a year or two ago.

Feeling it through the steering wheel could be a header or the oil pan hitting on any part of the steering linkage - center link, idler or pitman arm, anywhere.

A few years ago, after having had my car together for 1 year I noticed a spot on my new, expensive TTI passenger side header that had been contacting the steering linkage. Upon closer inspection I found that the new (1 year old) spool engine mounts had both completely deteriorated and come apart allowing the engine to settle significantly enough to cause the interference.

Just food for thought - look at everything, even the "new" stuff.
 
Going back to post #16,I assumed the noise is not something hitting the steering gear. The test I outlined has to be done with wheels on the floor, and at normal track width; that is, the car was just rolled in and not jacked up.I think the knock is elsewhere, but I outline these tests to prove it.
-I suggest the the following: you and a helper, one at each front wheelhouse.Grab the fenders and lift the body up an inch and very gently let it down.Then push it down an inch. Repeat several times.Then increase the lifting height a bit and repeat the test. If the noise is in the shocks or bushings, this should prove it.
- Next,have your helper lightly apply the hydraulic brakes and put the trans in neutral.Now you rock the car,increasingly vigorously,front to back. The brakes need to be just loose enough to allow some wheel rotation. If the noise is in the rest of suspension,or the caliper mounts, this should prove it. -Finally, get the drivers side front wheel in the air and spin it up.Check it for reasonable roundness, and blown cords, and Sidewall BULGES. But the big test is this; with the wheel spinning, have your helper gently apply the brakes. Try this several times with various brake pressures similar to what causes the knock.And finally have him lock the brakes while the wheel is spinning at a pretty good clip. If an UCA mount is loose the energy transfer to it might show up here.
-One thing worth mentioning if you have power steering;That box is a pretty good vibration insulator.Almost nothing happening downstream of it will get into the steering wheel. I say almost. And anything tapping on the steering shaft, most definitely will.Good luck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top