new member with 74 dodge dart starter problems

Hello everybody, my name is Marty and I have a 74' Dodge dart swinger with a slant 6 that I am trying to get going. I recently replaced the starter and while it turns over good, the car will not start at all. I should also tell you that the carb, i think carter 1 barrel has vacuum leaks. I say that because it is very hard to crank when cold and idles high-low when it does start; not all the time though, sometimes it idles good. Anyway, since I replaced the starter it will not even "hit" at all, like it is getting no gas.
Any suggestions?
Marty

By hit you mean it doesn't try to fire up, just cranks?

Was anything else worked on or changed at the same time?

Welcome to FABO by the way.

To run, an engine needs air, fuel and spark. If you aren't getting any of the three, the engine will not start. You can spray starting fluid down the carb throat to see if the problem is "fuel". If it still doesn't start, then start tracking down electrical problems first by pulling a spark plug and looking for a spark while someone is cranking it over.

TrailBeast said:

By hit you mean it doesn't try to fire up, just cranks?

Was anything else worked on or changed at the same time?

Welcome to FABO by the way.

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The only thing I did other than replace the starter was take out a plug to see what it looked like. Today I took out a plug and had my son turn over the ignition to see if any spark; I got no spark at all.. what do you think?
and thanks for the welcome!
Marty

68gtxman said:

To run, an engine needs air, fuel and spark. If you aren't getting any of the three, the engine will not start. You can spray starting fluid down the carb throat to see if the problem is "fuel". If it still doesn't start, then start tracking down electrical problems first by pulling a spark plug and looking for a spark while someone is cranking it over.

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not getting any spark; where should I start tracking down the electrical problem?

It's a 74, it wouldn't be the seat belt interlock maybe?
That usually won't allow the engine to turnover. So, I would look at the ballast resistor. A continuity tester across the leads will determine that in a big hurry. I carry a spare in the glove box.

gunbunny said:

It's a 74, it wouldn't be the seat belt interlock maybe?
That usually won't allow the engine to turnover. So, I would look at the ballast resistor. A continuity tester across the leads will determine that in a big hurry. I carry a spare in the glove box.

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Agreed, start there and work towards the distributor tracing power.
You can also use a jumper wire and go off the battery positive to the coil pos and see if it fires then.
If it does, then you know the major components are ok, just a matter of the power getting to them.

The seatbelt interlock kills the starter...it won't even turn over. Plus, most were bypassed around 1975

Experience has been a good teacher to me about Chrysler electronic ignition, and a sudden no-spark has always been the ECU, the small metal box on the fenderwell with a 4 or 5 pin plug retained by a screw. If you drive a Mopar you need a spare anyway, so grab a new one and pop it on, I bet it starts right up. If not, you have your spare.

TylerW said:

The seatbelt interlock kills the starter...it won't even turn over. Plus, most were bypassed around 1975

Experience has been a good teacher to me about Chrysler electronic ignition, and a sudden no-spark has always been the ECU, the small metal box on the fenderwell with a 4 or 5 pin plug retained by a screw. If you drive a Mopar you need a spare anyway, so grab a new one and pop it on, I bet it starts right up. If not, you have your spare.

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Disagree completely It can be many other causes other than a bad box.


1....It is NOT the seat belt interlock. This disables the starter. However if you have not done so, bypass the reset box, here:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1969624169

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=14304

2.....Before you do anything else, make ABSOLUTELY certain the ignition ECU is GROUNDED. Remove the box, scrape the firewall and box ears clean and mount tight with star lock washers

3.....Remove all ignition connectors........at the box, at the ballast resistor, and the distributor, and 'work' them in / out several times to scrub clean and to "feel" for tightness. this is especially important with the distributor

4.....You have a meter? I do hope so. Clip the meter to coil + and turn on the key. What does it read? Should read somewhere between 6 and 10 volts.

Read voltage from coil NEG to ground. This voltage should be quite low, perhaps only 1/2 volt or 1 volt

5.....With meter clipped to coil+ terminal CRANK the engine USING THE KEY. The voltage at the coil should be within a couple of tenths of a volt "same as" cranking battery voltage, AND should be a bare minimum of 10V or higher.

6....Get a jumper clip. Turn the key to "run." Ground one end of the jumper. Take the distributor harness connector at the ENGINE bay end (not the distributor) and ground first one wire, and then the other (because I forget which, LOL). One of the two should give you one spark out of the coil each time you ground it

7...Set your meter on low AC volts. That is correct. AC volts. Hook the probes to the distributor connector terminals, the DISTRIBUTOR end. Might need two people. Crank the engine. Distributor trigger should produce about 1V AC

8....Pull the cap. Inspect the cap and rotor carefully for excessive dirt, grease, carbon or metal tracking and moisture. Inspect the rotor for "punch through" (spark punching through the center.)

Inspect the reluctor and pickup coil for rust, strike damage or debri. Give a cursory wiggle to the shaft and try to see if there's excessive shaft play (bushing wear.)

Additionally, if this is the older 5 pin box with a 4 pin resistor, you need to see if the resistor is good on "both halves."

Here:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

Basic wiring diagram of the older 5 pin box

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/Ignition_System_5pin.jpg

Basic wiring diagram of the newer 4 pin box. Notice that quite simply the wire going to the box from the "other half" of the resistor was eliminated

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/Ignition_System_4pin.jpg

And.........checking ballast resistors


NOTICE that the 2 pin resistor is the SAME on the side of the 4 pin which connects to the COIL

Do these tests and post back with results. If "for example" the coil + voltage and the coil- voltage are both "high" same as battery with key on, this indicates the coil is not drawing current. This could be an UNgrounded box or a BAD box as one example

Ok so I installed my new starter yesterday and got my battery hooked up. I wanted to see if the car had power since this a build from pieces parts. I hooked up the positive to the top of the starter ran another cable to the starter relay hooked up the negative to the top of the starter and ran that through the relay also. Hooked up and grounded my battery engaged the negative cable on the battery and the dam thing turned over without the key even being in the ignition. Now nothing else is hooked up to the transmission except the starter. What the heck is going on?

Spunk said:

Ok so I installed my new starter yesterday and got my battery hooked up. I wanted to see if the car had power since this a build from pieces parts. I hooked up the positive to the top of the starter ran another cable to the starter relay hooked up the negative to the top of the starter and ran that through the relay also. Hooked up and grounded my battery engaged the negative cable on the battery and the dam thing turned over without the key even being in the ignition. Now nothing else is hooked up to the transmission except the starter. What the heck is going on?

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Sounds like you have an always powered cable to the wrong relay stud.
In any case you would get much more help with it if you make a separate thread describing the problem.

Spunk said:

Ok so I installed my new starter yesterday and got my battery hooked up. I wanted to see if the car had power since this a build from pieces parts. I hooked up the positive to the top of the starter ran another cable to the starter relay hooked up the negative to the top of the starter and ran that through the relay also. Hooked up and grounded my battery engaged the negative cable on the battery and the dam thing turned over without the key even being in the ignition. Now nothing else is hooked up to the transmission except the starter. What the heck is going on?

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Yes, please start another thread in the electrical section.... a single problem in one thread can be confusing enough!

nm9stheham said:

Yes, please start another thread in the electrical section.... a single problem in one thread can be confusing enough!

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Sorry this is all new to me. Thanks I figured it out terminal cables were touching on the top of the starter

Easy mistake. So where are we, did you get it running?

67Dart273 said:

Easy mistake. So where are we, did you get it running?

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Well I had put off on working on it because of $$ we all know how that is. Im installing an electric throttle on my edelbrock carb and there is a transmission cooler that I am tring to figure out how to hook up. I still need to hook up the shifter cable not looking forward to that. Just got the driveshaft back had to have it shortened since it came from a 7 1/4 rear in and is going in an 8 3/4. Also had to get new spring plates the old ones were too small. Nedless to say I have vowed to get this baby on the road before it snows!! I just need some meats for the rear but I only have 14" rims. (( Money is tight cant afford new rims.

Spunk said:

Well I had put off on working on it because of $$ we all know how that is. Im installing an electric throttle on my edelbrock carb and there is a transmission cooler that I am tring to figure out how to hook up. I still need to hook up the shifter cable not looking forward to that. Just got the driveshaft back had to have it shortened since it came from a 7 1/4 rear in and is going in an 8 3/4. Also had to get new spring plates the old ones were too small. Nedless to say I have vowed to get this baby on the road before it snows!! I just need some meats for the rear but I only have 14" rims. (( Money is tight cant afford new rims.

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So if anyone has some 15" rims they are looking to get rid of for a 69 Dart me know!!rayer: