changing bolt pattern

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twokeelya

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I'm sure this topic has come up probably a thousand times, but I couldn't find what i was looking for in the search archives.
My question is it work the effort to change the bolt pattern on my 68 to a 5 x 4.5 and what would be the logical, financially feasible way of going about it. I've dreamed of owning a Barracuda for ...well...most of my adult life, finally bought one, a nice one, beautifully restored except for the wheels are stock and as I've tried to get wheels, I've discovered they are the small bolt pattern and I'm bummed, so many wheel choices for mustangs, but only a limited few for the barracuda, hence I want to switch to 5 x 4.5 wih large studs. I'm new to mopars and don't know the lingo yet, i.e BBM, LBP and stuff like that, so please talk to me like I'm twelve years old.
thanks
 
find you a 73-76 mopar donor. they have the BBP, or you can get the front end kit from CPP for about $600. folks have them for sale on here all the time for 300-400. and rearends as well.
 
What am I looking to swap, the axle? Housing? spindles a arms? will it impact the brakes? My dream scenario would be to find a youtube video with the step by step proceedre, list of parts ect. That way I can weigh the options.
 
look for threads on here. you will be swapping to disc brakes when you change. there is tons of info. on this site, a lot of folks have done the swap. the whole rear end will get swapped out. the front rotors, spindles, control arms will have to be changed. I assume your car has drum brakes on the front?
 
red cuda said:
look for threads on here. you will be swapping to disc brakes when you change. there is tons of info. on this site, a lot of folks have done the swap. the whole rear end will get swapped out. the front rotors, spindles, control arms will have to be changed. I assume your car has drum brakes on the front?
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It has disk brakes, sounds expensive
 
IMO, Kind of depends on what you will want to put yourself through.

1) donor as mentioned by red cuda would be best option especially for the front

For other rear options you...........
2) could buy new custom axles with the larger pattern and drill current drums to fit
3) could rework current axles and drums (weld up small pattern and re-drill for large, see pics)

4) last resort would be wheel adapters
 

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Find front disc parts from a 73-76 A-body. (Duster, Dart, Swinger, etc.) This gives you a 5 on 4-1/2" bolt pattern with 1/2" studs. Go to the Mopar Action magazine web site and look at the Disc-o-tech article as it outlines a lot of disc swaps using factory-based parts. I still think using factory parts is the most economical if you shop carefully but there are several after market disc kits out there.
You'll need the upper control arms, knuckles (spindles), calipers, rotors, upper and probably the lower ball joints, etc. Also a disc brake master cylinder if you have drums now. You can piece this together from different sources and you don't have to buy everything at once. get everything together before you make the swap. Since you'll have most of the front suspension apart, check all the wearable components and replace as necessary. Things like lower control arm and strut rod bushings. I'd recommend replacing the upper control arm bushings with the Moog offset problem solvers. You install them in the UCA offset from one another to gain positive castor. With modern radials align to positive 2* castor or so, a half degree negative camber, and 1/16"-1/8" toe-in.

For the rear the easiest method is to get a complete 8-1/4" rear from a 73-76 A-body. This would be a direct remove and replace swap. Depending on what you have back there now, you may have to adjust your drive shaft length. If you have a /6 or a std V-8 with automatic it will be a 7-1/4" rear. You will also need different shock plates if you currently have a 7-1/4.

As mentioned, you can have your SBP 8-3/4" axles and drums re-drilled for the LBP.

If your car already has an a-body 8-3/4" rear you can use shortened C-body axles or brand new axles from Moser, Yukon, etc. You will need new rear brakes complete with the matching backing plates. I used shortened c-body shafts and b-body 10" x 2-1/2" drum brakes but it's your choice.

A complete B-body 8-3/4" rear can be swapped in but you'll have to cut and re-weld the spring perches to match the a-body leaf spring width. Some people just spread the springs apart to fit but I wouldn't do that if it was my car. The b-body track will be wider than the a-body so you'll have to be aware of that when buying wheels and tires. B-body track widths vary depending on the year.

Doesn't sound like much expense but when you factor in new wheels and probably tires, it can add up.
 
Just did this 2 years ago. Put in Yukon axles with green bearings and B body 10" x 2 1/2" brakes. Up front I used a Wilwood disc brake kit (can be set up for bbp or sbp in case you convert the fronts before the rear). I also changed to a Wilwood master and had to use a universal adjustable pushrod from Stainless Steel Brake Corporation. The stock proportioning valve was ok.
 
I am not a fan of redrilling axles or hubs. The OEM Kelsey Hayes hub doesn't have enough meat to safely drill to the bbp. I am saying that off pictures I have seen. A much better solution would be to use the modification found in the first link below.

Using mustang rotors for 4.5" bc

The link below gives the details on how to use OEM bbp pattern parts for your disc brakes. Included is a list of donor cars that would have your needed parts.

A Body Disc Brake Swap 101

As far as redrilling your rear axles, don't bother because the 10x1.75 brake drums are no longer available and there are threads constantly showing up with people trying to locate them.

Depending on what rear end you have would make a difference of options.

In addition to the B-body rear end mentioned above here are other options below.

If you have a 7 1/4 then you can swap a whole bbp 7 1/4 from a 1973 through 1976 A-body rear end in. That would take no modification of spring plates or drive shaft.

If you have a 7 1/4 then you can swap a whole bbp 8 1/4 from a 1973 through 1976 A-body rear end in. That would take different spring plates and modification of drive shaft.

If you have an 8 3/4 then you can get new axles that will be bbp and the correct spacing for modern brakes. You can use lbp backing plates, drums and related parts from any 8 1/4 that has 5 lug wheels. There is also other backing plates that will work but I am not going in to that not knowing what rear end you have. To get axles, I would recommend Cass at Doctor Diff.

www.doctordiff.com
 
KosmicKuda said:
Find front disc parts from a 73-76 A-body. (Duster, Dart, Swinger, etc.) This gives you a 5 on 4-1/2" bolt pattern with 1/2" studs. Go to the Mopar Action magazine web site and look at the Disc-o-tech article as it outlines a lot of disc swaps using factory-based parts. I still think using factory parts is the most economical if you shop carefully but there are several after market disc kits out there.
You'll need the upper control arms, knuckles (spindles), calipers, rotors, upper and probably the lower ball joints, etc. Also a disc brake master cylinder if you have drums now. You can piece this together from different sources and you don't have to buy everything at once. get everything together before you make the swap. Since you'll have most of the front suspension apart, check all the wearable components and replace as necessary. Things like lower control arm and strut rod bushings. I'd recommend replacing the upper control arm bushings with the Moog offset problem solvers. You install them in the UCA offset from one another to gain positive castor. With modern radials align to positive 2* castor or so, a half degree negative camber, and 1/16"-1/8" toe-in.

For the rear the easiest method is to get a complete 8-1/4" rear from a 73-76 A-body. This would be a direct remove and replace swap. Depending on what you have back there now, you may have to adjust your drive shaft length. If you have a /6 or a std V-8 with automatic it will be a 7-1/4" rear. You will also need different shock plates if you currently have a 7-1/4.

As mentioned, you can have your SBP 8-3/4" axles and drums re-drilled for the LBP.

If your car already has an a-body 8-3/4" rear you can use shortened C-body axles or brand new axles from Moser, Yukon, etc. You will need new rear brakes complete with the matching backing plates. I used shortened c-body shafts and b-body 10" x 2-1/2" drum brakes but it's your choice.

A complete B-body 8-3/4" rear can be swapped in but you'll have to cut and re-weld the spring perches to match the a-body leaf spring width. Some people just spread the springs apart to fit but I wouldn't do that if it was my car. The b-body track will be wider than the a-body so you'll have to be aware of that when buying wheels and tires. B-body track widths vary depending on the year.

Doesn't sound like much expense but when you factor in new wheels and probably tires, it can add up.
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Thank You thank you thank you. This is exactly what I needed. Being new to Mopar is a learning curve from Mustangs where everything fits. I haven't even determine where jack points are on the Barracuda Yet, but I'm about to dive in. love this car and it's style, have always wanted one, not I got what I wanted, just need to dial it in. Sorry if my ignorance offended anyone but learning is all about doing right?
 
If you decide to ditch your Kelsey-Hayes front disk brakes, I'll pay $100 for the setup including spindles. Just set them aside and bring them next time you drive north or I can get next time I'm down that way.

If me, I would keep as is and simply get new alloy wheels. You can buy new big wheels (17"D I recall) in SBP. There were posts w/ photos here a few years ago. Cost $170 ea as I recall. You can also buy vintage SBP Kragers or slotted aluminum wheels. Don't fear. So many have changed to BBP that it is a buyer's market. I have an extra set myself.

Re getting rear 10" SBP drums, you can adapt front drums to work and they are cheap. You cut off the "snow lip". One guy does that and sells on ebay for a pretty penny. I found some good used rear drums recently.
 
first off -welcome. Post up some pictures of your ride!!
What kind of wheels are you looking for? there is a limited selection of sbp wheels available. Where have you looked for them? summit racing has a few-- this site has used ones in various condition .
do a search for sbp(small bolt pattern wheels ) & see what others have found--

just a thought , Lawrence
 
I know exactly where your coming from. I changed mine all over last winter with the conversion kit from CPP
Front disk brake kit, rear conversion axles, and complete rear brake kit. I can't remember the total cost but I think it cost me around $1500 all in
 
VDART said:
first off -welcome. Post up some pictures of your ride!!
What kind of wheels are you looking for? there is a limited selection of sbp wheels available. Where have you looked for them? summit racing has a few-- this site has used ones in various condition .
do a search for sbp(small bolt pattern wheels ) & see what others have found--

just a thought , Lawrence
Click to expand...

Thank you, this seems to be a much better group then my mustang forums, perhaps Mopar brings out the maturity in people. I do love the Barracuda, been trying to get one for quite a while. The P.O. restored the car, transplanted a V8, did all the work, electric leather seats, and his wife told him to get rid of the car, hence selling it to me for a great price. It's a beauty, just needs wheels and it's cherry. I have 6 Classics, 65 GTO convertible 67K original miles, 69 Firebird convertible Deluxe, 70 Mustang Fastback (drove it to Chicago last winter), 64 Merc Comet cyclone, and the Barracuda. I do want to do the project correctly, so lots to think about here. Thank you all for your responses. I just need to figure out the gas gauge problem now
 
twokeelya said:
I just need to figure out the gas gauge problem now
Click to expand...
Many posts on that. Often the dash Vreg fails, which also affects the temperature gage. Yours in inside the fuel gage. <$30 electronic replacement on ebay ("voltage limiter"). A new fuel sender is $45 on ebay, w/ bigger 3/8" supply and 1/4" return.
 
Hi guys, I purchaced a 68 Dodge 270 in Jan this year. Been wanting to do this same swap so been on here watching. I have a question that maybe someone can answer here. I found a donor car, a 73 Dodge Scamp. Although it's a 6cyl. Will those parts still fit? Or is it different?

This is my first Mopar.


TIA.
 
Custom rims. Many smaller manufacturers places will do you a 5 on 4 nowadays. Custom axles are the cheapest way to go out back. BBP big bolt pattern hubs and front parts are a wash when you sell your SBP small bolt pattern brakes to a drummer. They will sell quick here. Bill already wants'em!
 
Also try Coy wheels. They have some small bolt pattern. That was the route I was gonna go but instead have changed rear end plans and will have BBP as well as discs up front.
 
What kind of rims do you want for your barracuda? To me it seems easier and cheaper to just get aftermarket rims to fit. Depends what you want but there are a few companies that make 5&4"rims
 
Team III (E-T) will drill most of their wheels for 5x4". I bought these beautiful Classic V wheels from them. http://www.team3wheels.com/classic_v.html
071511_02-1.JPG
 
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