Crankcase Evac Pump

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bOb shingler said:
your leak down numbers should be anywhere from 1-3%.
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I wonder what Joe Sherman would say to that? Calling his baby ugly. He builds them real loose to make a dyno number. Who cares if you don't make it around the block I guess. Here's an interesting post I found on speed talk. It seems he likes to build them real loose and use a pump to gain ponies.

View attachment image-2833909224.jpg
 
How many valve cover breathers on your engine?
post a picture of the engine in the car...a picture is worth a 1000 words.
 
I'd try another breather on the other side..if you have a push in breather with the 1/2 hole in the bottom get rid of it. then weld a couple of 1 1/4 tubes in your valve covers and get a couple of push over breathers,I'm pretty sure that will relieve most or almost all of your problems..
I'm even pretty confidant that after 50 to 100 miles of street driving that the ring seal will improve..
 
I run two breathers and a PCV and have no issues...this low deck is 15-1 and turns 8200 rpm and is street driven..

830hp.jpg
 
Rob R said:
I'd try another breather on the other side..if you have a push in breather with the 1/2 hole in the bottom get rid of it. then weld a couple of 1 1/4 tubes in your valve covers and get a couple of push over breathers,I'm pretty sure that will relieve most or almost all of your problems..
I'm even pretty confidant that after 50 to 100 miles of street driving that the ring seal will improve..
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Yeah,, we tried and tried to tell him that,, but he appears to believe only that which he wants to hear,,

Check out the original thread,, musta been suggested a coupla dozen times..

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=284303
 
Rob R said:
I run two breathers and a PCV and have no issues...this low deck is 15-1 and turns 8200 rpm and is street driven..
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What's your leak down numbers? I've got 14% on 512ci. Only turns 6000 RPMs. My builder the famous Joe Sherman gave me a $3 breather breather and said PCV is bad idea. I've tried everything suggested accept a vacuum pump.
 
So you have two breathers and a PCV??
Even with two 1/2 in hole breathers it's not enough..The biggest problem was it came off the dyno into the car and then out on the highway for 30 min with that one 1/2 in hole for a vent..
Of course it's going to push out the seal on that valley tray and then every other seal that wasn't sealed within a inch of it's life..
And of course you were only driving 49 mph for the entire 30 min trip..:burnout:..;-)

Let's face it you drove it like you stole it on a highway, no different than everyone of my customers have done for the last 37 years..

Now what to do...
If it were me I would loose that valley tray you have and replace it with a nice heavy cast one from Indy.Then seal it with Ultra Black and let it cure for a day.Then I'd replace all the other gaskets and use Ultra Black on them and let those cure for a day also.
Then address the breathers..loose the small push in style and go with the slip over 1 1/4 type.
Now that it's sealed up again... the biggest thing..drive it Easy for 50 or 75 miles or more if you can keep your foot out of it and not out on the highway it needs to be stop and go city type driving..
IMO if you were to do this your oil leaks will be no more..

Best of luck with the leaks

My low deck leaked 1%
yours will seal up just give it some more time..easy miles
 
Rob R said:
So you have two breathers and a PCV?? Even with two 1/2 in hole breathers it's not enough..The biggest problem was it came off the dyno into the car and then out on the highway for 30 min with that one 1/2 in hole for a vent.. Of course it's going to push out the seal on that valley tray and then every other seal that wasn't sealed within a inch of it's life.. And of course you were only driving 49 mph for the entire 30 min trip..:burnout:..;-) Let's face it you drove it like you stole it on a highway, no different than everyone of my customers have done for the last 37 years.. Now what to do... If it were me I would loose that valley tray you have and replace it with a nice heavy cast one from Indy.Then seal it with Ultra Black and let it cure for a day.Then I'd replace all the other gaskets and use Ultra Black on them and let those cure for a day also. Then address the breathers..loose the small push in style and go with the slip over 1 1/4 type. Now that it's sealed up again... the biggest thing..drive it Easy for 50 or 75 miles or more if you can keep your foot out of it and not out on the highway it needs to be stop and go city type driving.. IMO if you were to do this your oil leaks will be no more.. Best of luck with the leaks My low deck leaked 1% yours will seal up just give it some more time..easy miles
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Only thing I haven't tried is replacing valley pan with different type. You are the 1st to suggest it is not good one. I gave up and brought it to a Mopar builder/mechanic. He has repaired valley pan twice, pan gasket twice and main seal twice. My builder says it's broken in on the dyno so I gave it a couple pulls but nothing crazy and it shouldn't be blowing gaskets like this. I will give an update once the vacuum pump is in.
 
Christ...don't put a pump on it..!!

you had better mount a gallon catch can under your hood because if it works it's going to pull a **** load of oil..

Drive it and get those leak down numbers into the single digits...

Pumps on the street=unhappiness

Just trying to save you some serious heart break
 
Rob R said:
Christ...don't put a pump on it..!! you had better mount a gallon catch can under your hood because if it works it's going to pull a **** load of oil.. Drive it and get those leak down numbers into the single digits... Pumps on the street=unhappiness Just trying to save you some serious heart break
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I hear ya and at this point the only other option is tear down motor and have it built for street or drive it like a little ole lady. The GZ guys say that if I baffle correctly it will be minimal service. Fingers crossed. I appreciate your input and wish I had gone to a builder with some integrity. Joe Sherman just doesn't care about the customer or how hard that customer works for his money!
 
Vac pump on the street = un happiness?? Lol Most of you guys talk out of your *** with no first hand knowledge what a joke!

The **** sure is getting thick around here.
 
Mad Dart said:
Vac pump on the street = un happiness?? Lol Most of you guys talk out of your *** with no first hand knowledge what a joke!

The **** sure is getting thick around here.
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That remark was directed at wazoo64 situation and not meant to be taken any other way.

As someone who thinks they have so much more first hand knowledge than most on this board why don't you school those who need to be informed about such things as...Vac pumps on the street...Pro's and Cons
 
Rob R said:
That remark was directed at wazoo64 situation and not meant to be taken any other way.

As someone who thinks they have so much more first hand knowledge than most on this board why don't you school those who need to be informed about such things as...Vac pumps on the street...Pro's and Cons
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Lol. There is so much mis information on the internet it is sickening. That is what I meant by my comments.

This is my personal experience.

They say Oil pressure drops with a Vac Pump Pump at Idle and at WOT. I found out in my case it for sure is a Myth. I gained 8 PSI at Idle and dropped none at WOT. That is 5 in Vac at Idle and 20+ in Vac WOT.

I had a similar issue as Wazoo. Excessive crank case pressure. I tried all the stuff you guys are talking about. Welded breathers tubes on the valve covers, raised them up etc. 1 Breather, 2 Breathers and a PCV. None worked at all. Oil was entering the cylinders at high Rpm. Not good for Nitrous. I had a couple oil leaks but nothing major. After the Vac Pump install, I have No oil leaks what so ever.

I installed the VP 104 Vac Pump Kit from GZ. It was supposed to be a bolt on deal. Lol to that one. I had to modify the mandrel and mounting bracket and get a different cog belt after the mods.

As far as oil in the canister........ I have checked it a few times after LONG runs in my car to the tune of 2 tanks of fuel per cruise and nothing worth noting was in the canister. The last time I checked the canister I had burned 4 Tanks of fuel which is about 55 gallons. Maybe, and I am being generous, there was 1 Table spoon of oil in the canister when I un did the drain plug.

As far as power goes, for sure there was a noticeable difference in how the car runs. I will forever use a Vac pump from now on in every build. It makes that much of a difference in noticeable power increase.

The GZ set up has Baffled breathers and an adjustable bleed valve to fine tune how much vac you want. Very easy to adjust with 2 fingers.

As far as I am concerned there is NO Negative effects of running a Vac pump on the Street. Only positive results apply.

Mine is a 410 Stroker that I drive the snot out of everywhere " Not supposed to do that with a Stroker" Lol. Solid Roller .634 lift at the valve "YES on the Street" I also hit it with a 200 Hit of NOS. A 904 built by me that I am throwing at least 725HP through with a Pro Transbrake "Not supposed to do that either" it has not missed a beat.

That is my story.
 
Mad Dart said:
Lol. There is so much mis information on the internet it is sickening. That is what I meant by my comments. This is my personal experience. They say Oil pressure drops with a Vac Pump Pump at Idle and at WOT. I found out in my case it for sure is a Myth. I gained 8 PSI at Idle and dropped none at WOT. That is 5 in Vac at Idle and 20+ in Vac WOT. I had a similar issue as Wazoo. Excessive crank case pressure. I tried all the stuff you guys are talking about. Welded breathers tubes on the valve covers, raised them up etc. 1 Breather, 2 Breathers and a PCV. None worked at all. Oil was entering the cylinders at high Rpm. Not good for Nitrous. I had a couple oil leaks but nothing major. After the Vac Pump install, I have No oil leaks what so ever. I installed the VP 104 Vac Pump Kit from GZ. It was supposed to be a bolt on deal. Lol to that one. I had to modify the mandrel and mounting bracket and get a different cog belt after the mods. As far as oil in the canister........ I have checked it a few times after LONG runs in my car to the tune of 2 tanks of fuel per cruise and nothing worth noting was in the canister. The last time I checked the canister I had burned 4 Tanks of fuel which is about 55 gallons. Maybe, and I am being generous, there was 1 Table spoon of oil in the canister when I un did the drain plug. As far as power goes, for sure there was a noticeable difference in how the car runs. I will forever use a Vac pump from now on in every build. It makes that much of a difference in noticeable power increase. The GZ set up has Baffled breathers and an adjustable bleed valve to fine tune how much vac you want. Very easy to adjust with 2 fingers. As far as I am concerned there is NO Negative effects of running a Vac pump on the Street. Only positive results apply. Mine is a 410 Stroker that I drive the snot out of everywhere " Not supposed to do that with a Stroker" Lol. Solid Roller .634 lift at the valve "YES on the Street" I also hit it with a 200 Hit of NOS. A 904 built by me that I am throwing at least 725HP through with a Pro Transbrake "Not supposed to do that either" it has not missed a beat. That is my story.
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Good to hear. Thanks
 
where was the leaking taking place? rings? intake valve? exhaust valve? a for instance, my supercharged motor leaked 1-2% thru the rings on all but #5, it was an exhaust valve at 8%, so off came the head to have it reseated at the shop. your build sheet ring gaps are fine. if yours is leaking thru the rings at that leakage a vacuum pump is only a bandaid and you'll still have a shitty screwed up "joe Sherman" built motor. take the damn thing out and go thru it or have some one else do it.
 
With so much blow-by,, there has to be a point,, without adequate venting,, that the crankcase pressure will actually start to blow the rings off the lands, causing more blow-by,, and the pump (like having more breathers) may relieve that pressure allowing the rings back on the lands, and more h/p, hmmm

I've built all kindsa performance motors, elephant ,, rat,, but I never built one that loose, with that much blow-by.., .. I'd want it back to find out what was wrong.. jmo
 
bOb shingler said:
where was the leaking taking place? rings? intake valve? exhaust valve? a for instance, my supercharged motor leaked 1-2% thru the rings on all but #5, it was an exhaust valve at 8%, so off came the head to have it reseated at the shop. your build sheet ring gaps are fine. if yours is leaking thru the rings at that leakage a vacuum pump is only a bandaid and you'll still have a shitty screwed up "joe Sherman" built motor. take the damn thing out and go thru it or have some one else do it.
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Good question. I assumed it was all rings but will ask the tech. This is just crazy! Maybe I'm on candid camera and it's all a big joke.
 
Your PM Box is full. You need to delete some messages.

All of my pulley's are on the Mandrel, I bought new and took the other pulley's off. I bolted the mandrel straight to the balancer. I did not try to bolt the mandrel inside the pulley's. If you are trying to do that then that is another can of worms.
 
Mad Dart said:
Your PM Box is full. You need to delete some messages. All of my pulley's are on the Mandrel, I bought new and took the other pulley's off. I bolted the mandrel straight to the balancer. I did not try to bolt the mandrel inside the pulley's. If you are trying to do that then that is another can of worms.
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Got my PM clear now. I think we are gonna make it work. Using 2 of the timing chain cover bolts to tie in the brackets. I just need to find a turnbuckle to triangulate to the lower alt bracket. I will post pics once it's done.
 
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