Brake problems

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68'barracuda

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Ok, we have a 1968 dodge charger that had factory drum breakes, it had disc breakes put on from a 1973-6 a body. It got every thing from calipers to master cylinder from it. Ever sense the conversion it has had trouble.
The back brakes lock up while you have almost no front brakes unless it is pumped multiple times. We have bled brakes multiple times, and changed calipers and hoses, still the same. I pulled the proportioning valve and it was full of gunk, could that be the problem? And if so is there anyway to rebuild it? If not any other suggestions?
 
If it's just a junction box like above, you should be able to clean it out.
 
You might try and pull off what you can, soak and clean it. There is also a a slide in there, that if it gets off center can mess up the distribution of pressure. There is a way to reset it somehow, I'm not sure how it's done, maybe someone will chime in that does.
 
According to the FSM, the problem you have is due to the proportioning valve malfunctioning, they recommend replacing it.

Pressure to the front is lost allowing it all to go to the back, thus locking them up.
 
As I understand them, the only thing which can restrict flow to the front circuit is the "metering valve", which I think is the left screw-on in the photo of post #6. Its purpose is to block flow to the fronts until some pressure has built up to assure the rear shoes are contacting. If it was stuck shut, you would never get flow to the front. It might be removable. You can find posts w/ cutaway views & explanation here. If you already re-installed it, I would just try blowing it clear by standing on the pedal w/ both feet. All rust problems disappeared since I changed to DOT 5 long ago in all my non-ABS cars.
 
You can buy adjustable prop valves for next to nothing, I would go that way.
 
Good luck on getting a good new I perches two one of Ebay and one from an online store and both where repoped junk both leaked . I got one off the forum and rebuilt it Waco Demon
 
Good luck on getting a good new I perches two one of Ebay and one from an online store and both where repoped junk both leaked . I got one off the forum and rebuilt it Waco Demon

Good to know. I just saw them on ebay and thought it would work for the OP. I have also seen complete kits to rebuild them. :eek:ops:
 
I have disassembled and cleaned those valves. Theyre simple devices.However, that valve may not be your problem.
-Three things come to mind. A) are you sure the brake lines are plumbed correctly, and B) are you sure the master cylinder is clear of air, and C)are the calipers/pads correctly installed on known good rotors..
-The tip off is when you said that with multiple stabs, the pressure comes up.
- Now Im not going to tell you to clamp your OEM flex hoses, for diagnostic purposes. But if you did it would eliminate all mechanical problems except those pertaining to the M/C,the pushrod, and the pedal. If the problem persisted, it would point to air trapped somewhere or a faulty mastercylinder. If the problem were to cease with clamped lines, then unclamping the fronts,one at a time, would likely reveal the culprit.
-WARNING........Clamping flex-lines is highly NOT-RECOMMENDED,especially with used or old lines.While, if properly done, no damage is visible, old lines can suffer internal damage which may not manifest until many miles go by. In very hard to diagnose cases, I have successfully clamped them.Your results may vary. Your life depends on those lines not failing.
-As a parting tip,Air is fairly easy to prove. Have an assistant pump up the pedal until it is fairly hard, and hold the pedal down. Now, you, standing beside the drivers fender, lift the M/C cover, and peek under it. Then ask your assistant to remove a tiny amount of pedal pressure. You will be watching the fluid in the reservoir.If nothing is happening, reduce pedal pressure a tiny bit at a time until the fluid appears to boil. The boiling is the fluid returning to the bowl.It should be visible but modest. If you get a geyser, thats almost a sure proof that there is air in there somewhere. If the geyser escapes the bowl and spews fluid all over everything, Shazzam, thats air for sure. So the big tip here is prepare for the spewing geyser before-hand by protecting your paint. If you hold the cover just right you can prevent a mess, and if you signal your assistant to reverse directions on the pedal when the geyser begins, you can almost eliminate it.BE PREPARED. There is one caveat, If the rear shoes are out of adjustment, the shoe return springs will plow that fluid back to the M/C likety-split quick.So adjust them first.Also if the front calipers have mechanical problems on their sliders or the pads are springy, that will also cause the fluid to return faster than normal. With clamped lines all these problems are eliminated, and the only thing that can cause a geyser is compressed air in the lines. Hah!
- Oh yeah, one more thing; if the compensating port is not working there may not be any fluid motion, or barely any motion. But then the brakes wouldnt pump up at all.
-Oh yeah, one last thing; if the M/C is faulty in that the front cup is bad,there will be fluid returning to the bowl during every brake pedal down motion. You will have to watch for it because the amount of fluid bypassing is very small and sometimes hard to detect.
All right then, good hunting.
 
make sure front of master cylinder is routed to back brakes, and back of master cylinder is routed to front.

if you have it the other way, the backs lock up before the fronts kick in...
 
Ok, the proportioning valve didn't help. Does anyone have a brake diagram with the master cylinder on it? I think they are backwards but the lines are different sizes so they cannot just be swapped without being changed completely?
 
Are you absolutely certain that the master cylinder was ordered for disc brakes? They are different and the drum brake master cylinder would cause the problems that you describe.
 
MC reservoirs should be diff sizes for disk/drum. (Will be equal if 4 drums) The larger section will go to top of the valve and closest side ports branch to the two front lines. Small section of MC goes to side of lower part of valve and through to back line
 
I haven't been able to flip them but the Master cylinder is correct but the smaller reservoir in the front goes to the front
brakes instead of the back
Thanks y'all
 
I know its been awhile, but just got around to post back. I still have no front brakes!!! if you pump them up a few times before stomping it they work slightly. I have bled them multipull times and never got any air and solid fluid, checked for leaks and cant find anything...?????
 
Are your front bleeders at the top of the caliper,.??

If not,, exchange to opposite sides..

Air must be bled from the top...
 
-As a parting tip,Air is fairly easy to prove. Have an assistant pump up the pedal until it is fairly hard, and hold the pedal down. Now, you, standing beside the drivers fender, lift the M/C cover, and peek under it. Then ask your assistant to remove a tiny amount of pedal pressure. You will be watching the fluid in the reservoir.If nothing is happening, reduce pedal pressure a tiny bit at a time until the fluid appears to boil. The boiling is the fluid returning to the bowl.It should be visible but modest. If you get a geyser, thats almost a sure proof that there is air in there somewhere.

I usually get flamed by those that should know better,, when I described this proceedure... so gave up . .lol..

AND,, you're the only other person I met that uses caster to compensate for road crown,, congrats.. lol
 
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