Another Mopar Off My Bucket List - Barracuda Fastback

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A few days ago I received notice that my Gold Membership was expiring soon. Ironically I'd been debating whether or not to cut ties with FABO. There are a lot of great members on this site and I've found it to be a good resource for parts and information. As much as I've enjoyed razzing (and being razzed by) some of you guys, this site has a dark side too. I don't know how accurate my perception is but it seems as though that darkness is growing.

I'd been a member of some other car sites but felt dismayed by the attitudes of some of their members. I saw intimidation of people when they'd asked questions that had either been asked previously or were deemed to be 'stupid' by senior members.

My fear is that FABO is headed in that direction. Maybe I'm wrong but I get the perception that some members are untouchable. No matter how rude they may be they're never called to the carpet on things they say. It's a shame because some of them seem quite knowledgeable and would otherwise be a huge asset.

I joined FABO for multiple reasons. I was seeking information and I was looking for parts. But I was also looking for a club atmosphere with guys that had a common interest in Mopars. - Guys that I'd look forward to running into at the drags and car shows.

I have had a lot of fun with some of you folks. I believe that there's a bunch of you that I'd bend over backwards to help when you need a hand and who would do likewise for me. Unfortunately the loudest voices often come from those that don't respect fellow members that aren't part of 'their' group of friends.

So now I feel that I'm at a crossroad trying to figure out what to do. I could leave FABO altogether. I could limit which threads I read and cocoon myself away from the ones that bring me down. I guess I could start an ignore list. For the time being I'm holding off on renewing my Gold Membership.

I do appreciate the fact that the guys that created this site tried to make a place online where fellow fanatics could get together and share their interest in Mopars. But it is my belief that this site has changed negatively from what it was when I joined two years ago. - And like the other sites that I used to associate with, it's a handful of senior members causing the majority of the damage.
 
Could not agree with you more.

I'd go as far as to call it internet bullying,and yes I was a victim here more than once.

Part of this has to do with the "well I'm behind my keyboard,so theres nothing you can do about it" attitude.

I believe the electronic age has helped promote a less than humanitarian age. You would never treat your neighbour like you do folks on the net,maybe for fear of retaliation?

Nothing like a good old fasioned punch in the face to promote manners.
 
I have been a long time member here and seen many changes....many good and many bad. Seen lots of bullying and rude members over the years and that sucks.... But I'm sure that's many places on the web. If you see something that bothers you, maybe bring it to a moderators attention and see what they think? I ignore threads that bother me and stay away from members who are bullies. Many use the. "Ignore" button and I think maybe it's time you give it a try. Don't let the $hit get to you, you are a positive member and I enjoy reading your posts and all of your fun projects. Stick it out a little longer, we need more people like you around :glasses7:
 
Don't leave John!!! Your daily posts are great and I would really miss your humor and the work on your car harem. I do also get disenchanted in some of the fiefdoms here and and occasional gang mentality. I think many of us are getting to be grumpy old men! Overall, the site has great info from the likes of you.
 
John I usually check in to fabo once a day. There is so much going on I
don't have the time to see it all. But when I do take a look I always like to see what you are
up to. I like your dig in and figure it out as you go style you pull off so well on some of your
projects within a project.
I almost never comment in a guys thread unless I feel I can help a guy with a problem. I suppose I should join in more but Im not much of a talker even off line.
Pay no mind to the BS and just keep doing what your doing. Were out here watching and
wishing we had more time to stay with our cars as you are. Thanks for taking the time to share
your mopars with us. I personally liked seeing your duster being transformed into your ride your way. Stick around. I will try to join in every once in awhile.
 
66340SEDAN said:
I have been a long time member here and seen many changes....many good and many bad. Seen lots of bullying and rude members over the years and that sucks.... But I'm sure that's many places on the web. If you see something that bothers you, maybe bring it to a moderators attention and see what they think? I ignore threads that bother me and stay away from members who are bullies. Many use the. "Ignore" button and I think maybe it's time you give it a try. Don't let the $hit get to you, you are a positive member and I enjoy reading your posts and all of your fun projects. Stick it out a little longer, we need more people like you around :glasses7:
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Agreed 100%
If you leave I'm afraid I'd have to leave.
 
Thank you for the kind words. I wasn't trying to take control of the site by dictating to the moderators. I am truly a believer in a person's rights to speak freely. I expect a certain amount of friction in any group. It's impossible to avoid without trampling on free speech. There are things that are beyond the ability of the moderators control.

Like all other chat sites, the members of FABO direct the personality of this website. I know the moderators have stepped in at times to try to keep things from getting out of whack. But, there's only so much they can do without giving the impression that people cannot express themselves here. That perception would harm the opinion folks have of the site's hierarchy and no one wants to feel that 'big brother' is constantly looking over their shoulder.

I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me. They shouldn't. I'm wrong more often than I'm right. Not only can I handle the disagreements, but I believe they are the grounds for intelligent debate.

This site seems huge to me. I could never come close to reading all of the posts. But over time I've seen an increase in negative comments. I pity the new guys that pose questions without realizing they've given incomplete information. There are guys here that seem more determined to make the newbies feel stupid than to help them out. I've been hesitant to post some questions myself for that reason. And to make matters worse, there seems to be a pack mentality that is growing. Once the first negative comment is made, others often will 'pile on'.

I've seen some members respond to negative comments made and they become enraged and leave the site or get themselves kicked off when things escalate. I don't want to become one of them. I want to belong to a fun site that I look forward to visiting and being able to swap stories with others. 95% of FABO meets that criteria. I think it used to be 99%. Somewhere there's a tipping point. I'm not sure where it is. I guess the percentage of negativity a person sees depends on which threads he happens to read.

I haven't decided to leave FABO at this time but I have decided to limit the amount that I'm on here and the number of threads I read.

If you've followed my Barracuda/Duster/Challenger/Charger/Roadrunner/'Lil Red Express thread you know that I've tried to joke about my day to day experiences. The guys that have razzed me back are great. There's nothing better than goofing around with friends. But it's harder to keep your sense of humor when you feel yourself becoming disillusioned after reading some of the other threads out there.

I've avoided using the ignore list. As the saying goes, "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". I don't consider any members of FABO to be my enemy, but I don't like the way some treat others. I've kept an eye on some just so that I know who I might be dealing with and because some of the worst offenders here still possess a lot of valuable knowledge.

Sorry for the long rant.
 
ariffle said:
Agreed 100%
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ariffle said:
If you leave I'm afraid I'd have to leave.
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ariffle, that'd be a terrible reason to leave the site. The last thing I want is to start some ripple effect to harm FABO. It's guys like you that have made this site fun for me and others. I'd be mad at myself if I caused problems by my comments. Everyone has their own perspective based upon their own personal experiences. I'm hoping that your own experiences on this site are mostly positive and stay that way.
 
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ssba said:
John I usually check in to fabo once a day. There is so much going on I
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ssba said:
don't have the time to see it all. But when I do take a look I always like to see what you are
up to. I like your dig in and figure it out as you go style you pull off so well on some of your
projects within a project.
I almost never comment in a guys thread unless I feel I can help a guy with a problem. I suppose I should join in more but Im not much of a talker even off line.
Pay no mind to the BS and just keep doing what your doing. Were out here watching and
wishing we had more time to stay with our cars as you are. Thanks for taking the time to share
your mopars with us. I personally liked seeing your duster being transformed into your ride your way. Stick around. I will try to join in every once in awhile.
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Thanks ssba. It really does help to keep the enthusiasm up when you get feedback from others. - I even take criticism as a positive. It often keeps me from getting too distasteful on choices I make. There are so many great build threads on FABO. I had originally planned on having one for each of our projects, but as I've gotten older I've gotten lazier and more difficult to keep track of what I've posted. I thought that long intervals in work on one project as I jumped to another would make it hard to follow progress here.

I'm not sure if this many ongoing projects is a blessing or a curse. Guys out there that see someone with this many old Mopar performance vehicles might assume that I'm rolling in the dough. I try not to get whiney about finances but the truth of the matter is that I'm struggling just as much as 90% of the rest of you. I don't have near as much skill as the rest of the guys with FABO restoration projects. - So I'm unable to dazzle anyone with my brilliance and try to make up for it by baffling you guys with my BS.
 
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66340SEDAN said:
I have been a long time member here and seen many changes....many good and many bad. Seen lots of bullying and rude members over the years and that sucks.... But I'm sure that's many places on the web. If you see something that bothers you, maybe bring it to a moderators attention and see what they think? I ignore threads that bother me and stay away from members who are bullies. Many use the. "Ignore" button and I think maybe it's time you give it a try. Don't let the $hit get to you, you are a positive member and I enjoy reading your posts and all of your fun projects. Stick it out a little longer, we need more people like you around :glasses7:
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66340sedan, It's guys like you that have kept me coming back to FABO. I had truly debated whether or not to broach the subject of my disillusionment. My original thought was to quit 'cold turkey' without mentioning why I had dropped off the site. The reminder that my Gold status was expiring is what prompted me to say something before I'd reached the point of leaving. I hope that you will continue to stay one of the positive influences on FABO. Thanks.
 
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Cuda68Scott said:
Don't leave John!!! Your daily posts are great and I would really miss your humor and the work on your car harem. I do also get disenchanted in some of the fiefdoms here and and occasional gang mentality. I think many of us are getting to be grumpy old men! Overall, the site has great info from the likes of you.
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Thanks Cuda68Scott. Every time I see your avatar it cracks me up. The twisted sense of humor you have shared is one of the best on FABO. I'm starting to feel cheesey after reading the responses from some of you guys out there. I'd miss the comradery we've shared. Although I'd debate you on the amount of great info I've shared, I do agree that this site is chocked full of great info. - Not going anywhere yet, just planning on cutting back on my presence somewhat for now.
 
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needsaresto said:
Could not agree with you more.
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needsaresto said:

I'd go as far as to call it internet bullying,and yes I was a victim here more than once.

Part of this has to do with the "well I'm behind my keyboard,so theres nothing you can do about it" attitude.

I believe the electronic age has helped promote a less than humanitarian age. You would never treat your neighbour like you do folks on the net,maybe for fear of retaliation?

Nothing like a good old fasioned punch in the face to promote manners.
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needsaresto, I figured that there must have been a few other members that were disturbed by the way some folks treat others here. The guys that founded FABO must sometimes feel like they're herding cats as they try to keep things under control. I think that if a person tried to start a thread on this subject he'd likely open himself up to a lot of negative comments. - And who wants to be the target for those that thrive on drama? Maybe there's an ebb and flow to this sort of stuff.

I read a thread started by inkjunkie in which he spoke of 'fighting his demons' and trying to deal with anger that he sometimes felt building inside himself. It sort of hit home with me. I hope he doesn't feel all alone with the whole struggling thing. It's hard to win a battle when you feel overwhelmed. To safeguard your sanity sometimes you're better off seeking a means to relieve your stress. That may mean avoiding the things that will drive you over the edge. - But the demons still need to be faced eventually. Better to do it when you've had a chance to take a breather.
 
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Very happy to see you are planning to stay around, and I agree that cutting back a bit is healthy. Somehow if we had to perform a full rescue on you it might end up looking like this:D:

[ame]http://youtu.be/bnjQ3cV4x1I[/ame]
 
Wow! This was kind of a shock. Yours is, almost every time I log in, the thread that I read. I think you come up with ideas and actually try them. If they suck, you admit that and start over. I guess I don't read enuff of the forums or threads to see the negative remarks.
I too, would hate to see you leave. I just got here for crissakes!:glasses7:
I just hope I am not one of the "bad group".
Some of you guys seem really cool and I would buy any one of you a beer and bullshit about Mopars.
Sorry you got that feeling and hope you stay.
 
1967 'cuda said:
ariffle, that'd be a terrible reason to leave the site. The last thing I want is to start some ripple effect to harm FABO. It's guys like you that have made this site fun for me and others. I'd be mad at myself if I caused problems by my comments. Everyone has their own perspective based upon their own personal experiences. I'm hoping that your own experiences on this site are mostly positive and stay that way.
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I said that in part, due to the fact that I have a blast reading your posts and it helps to keep me positive. If you were not around to joke with or post back and forth with, It would seem a bit drab. Your posts always crack a smile, get me thinking and that's mostly what I enjoy about it here. Besides the help that is.
I wished there were more people like you.
I wouldn't leave just because you may or may not be on here any longer, just a lot less.
:D:D
 
SNKEBIT said:
Wow! This was kind of a shock. Yours is, almost every time I log in, the thread that I read. I think you come up with ideas and actually try them. If they suck, you admit that and start over. I guess I don't read enuff of the forums or threads to see the negative remarks.
I too, would hate to see you leave. I just got here for crissakes!:glasses7:
I just hope I am not one of the "bad group".
Some of you guys seem really cool and I would buy any one of you a beer and bullshit about Mopars.
Sorry you got that feeling and hope you stay.
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What? with all your bullying type of fab work, Who could compete with that?
Your fab work and ideas snkbit, are threatening!! L.O.L!!!
You definatly are one of the good guys!! I'd buy you a beer as well but all my pennies have gone into my Barracuda. All I can afford now os coffee and popcorn, but I'm about out of those as well from reading all your threads and Johns.
:happy1::happy1::coffee2::coffee2:
 
Cuda68Scott said:
Very happy to see you are planning to stay around, and I agree that cutting back a bit is healthy. Somehow if we had to perform a full rescue on you it might end up looking like this:D:
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Cuda68Scott said:

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Cuda68Scott, you're one sick puppy! It's one of your best qualities and why I look forward to your posts.
 
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SNKEBIT said:
Wow! This was kind of a shock. Yours is, almost every time I log in, the thread that I read. I think you come up with ideas and actually try them. If they suck, you admit that and start over. I guess I don't read enuff of the forums or threads to see the negative remarks.
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SNKEBIT said:
I too, would hate to see you leave. I just got here for crissakes!:glasses7:
I just hope I am not one of the "bad group".
Some of you guys seem really cool and I would buy any one of you a beer and bullshit about Mopars.
Sorry you got that feeling and hope you stay.
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SNKEBIT, the razzing from you is what has helped keep life on FABO fun. I didn't mean to give the impression that anyone has mistreated me on this site. I don't feel that way. But I do believe that other members have been made to feel as though they don't belong here. I'm more likely to get upset when I see someone else (that's looking for help) getting kicked around.

Constant ribbing is what should go on between friends. It shows a comfort level in which everybody is having fun. My friends and I give each other a lot of crap. My brand X buddies all know my affinity for Chrysler products. They expect me to kid them about their cars. I expect no less from them. But the spirit in which we do it is never mean. We respect one another.

I've never taken any of your comments as being mean spirited. Even when you gagged at the thought of me installing a '70 Roadrunner hood scoop and tail lights on my old '70 Camaro it didn't upset me in the least. (believe me, I did make it work)

You've probably figured out already that I've also followed your build thread. And you already know that I'm likely to give you a lot of crap if your final body mods don't look right. But I can guarantee you that it'll never be without a sense of humor and will never be with any ill intent.
 
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ariffle said:
I said that in part, due to the fact that I have a blast reading your posts and it helps to keep me positive. If you were not around to joke with or post back and forth with, It would seem a bit drab. Your posts always crack a smile, get me thinking and that's mostly what I enjoy about it here. Besides the help that is.
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ariffle said:
I wished there were more people like you.
I wouldn't leave just because you may or may not be on here any longer, just a lot less.
:D:D
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I appreciate the input that I've seen from you on various threads. Of all the builds I've seen on FABO, your car looks most like a sister to my own. It's caused me to have a fascination with the progress you've been making and helped answer some of my pondering about how my car would look if I'd made a few different choices. It's too bad that you're living out in the heathen northwest. If you were a bit closer I'd love to pop in and see your car first hand.
 
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1967 'cuda said:
A few days ago I received notice that my Gold Membership was expiring soon. Ironically I'd been debating whether or not to cut ties with FABO. There are a lot of great members on this site and I've found it to be a good resource for parts and information. As much as I've enjoyed razzing (and being razzed by) some of you guys, this site has a dark side too. I don't know how accurate my perception is but it seems as though that darkness is growing.

I'd been a member of some other car sites but felt dismayed by the attitudes of some of their members. I saw intimidation of people when they'd asked questions that had either been asked previously or were deemed to be 'stupid' by senior members.

My fear is that FABO is headed in that direction. Maybe I'm wrong but I get the perception that some members are untouchable. No matter how rude they may be they're never called to the carpet on things they say. It's a shame because some of them seem quite knowledgeable and would otherwise be a huge asset.

I joined FABO for multiple reasons. I was seeking information and I was looking for parts. But I was also looking for a club atmosphere with guys that had a common interest in Mopars. - Guys that I'd look forward to running into at the drags and car shows.

I have had a lot of fun with some of you folks. I believe that there's a bunch of you that I'd bend over backwards to help when you need a hand and who would do likewise for me. Unfortunately the loudest voices often come from those that don't respect fellow members that aren't part of 'their' group of friends.

So now I feel that I'm at a crossroad trying to figure out what to do. I could leave FABO altogether. I could limit which threads I read and cocoon myself away from the ones that bring me down. I guess I could start an ignore list. For the time being I'm holding off on renewing my Gold Membership.

I do appreciate the fact that the guys that created this site tried to make a place online where fellow fanatics could get together and share their interest in Mopars. But it is my belief that this site has changed negatively from what it was when I joined two years ago. - And like the other sites that I used to associate with, it's a handful of senior members causing the majority of the damage.
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I agree with what you are saying, but remember this, those new members need guys like you who can step up and give them real answers, and help to those questions no matter how simple they may seem to us. There is a reason they asked the question, we owe it to them to show them how FABO really works. They will figure out for themselves who are good guys and who are trouble makers and hopefully if we can show them that there are more good guys than bad they will stick around and learn what we can teach and can impart there knowledge and skills on us.

Thanks for sticking around.
 
skypower said:
I agree with what you are saying, but remember this, those new members need guys like you who can step up and give them real answers, and help to those questions no matter how simple they may seem to us. There is a reason they asked the question, we owe it to them to show them how FABO really works. They will figure out for themselves who are good guys and who are trouble makers and hopefully if we can show them that there are more good guys than bad they will stick around and learn what we can teach and can impart there knowledge and skills on us.
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skypower said:

Thanks for sticking around.
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Thanks skypower. More often than not I don't have the level of knowledge to answer questions that guys will have. From time to time I try to give input if I think it'll help.

I don't want to drive anyone off this site. - But a few of the guys here that have big brains are amongst those most likely to insult fellow members. - It's not friendly ribbing. It crosses a line into trying to push the buttons to insult others and escalates into verbal abuse. - And it really is a shame. I'd go to the devil himself for advice if I needed it to figure out a problem, but I'd probably leave needing psychiatric help afterwards. - But a lot of guys go dark. You see them drop from the site or they ask the moderators to have themselves removed.

You're right. I'm sure the vast majority of members are great guys. The unfortunate thing is that those with the worst attitudes are the most vocal. I have no desire to get into a debate with the ones trying to stir up trouble. More often than not I see that they are joined by others that eventually seem like a lynch mob. Calmer voices don't always prevail. It gets old after awhile. And it can really start to affect your own attitude.

I hope that no one is interpreting my words as a criticism of all of the sharpest members. The very best out there are rarely involved in controversy. One of the members that I've never had contact with but seems very knowledgeable is OldmanRick. I've never seen a negative post from him. He is one of many that proves you can be both intelligent and very respectful to others. If he's had a negative post, I haven't seen it. It seems to me that he's the type of person that FABO needs.
 
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1967 'cuda said:
I appreciate the input that I've seen from you on various threads. Of all the builds I've seen on FABO, your car looks most like a sister to my own. It's caused me to have a fascination with the progress you've been making and helped answer some of my pondering about how my car would look if I'd made a few different choices. It's too bad that you're living out in the heathen northwest. If you were a bit closer I'd love to pop in and see your car first hand.
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Would love to have you over. You know, sort out a few unknowns here and there with the car and park the two cars next to each other and make postcards of the twins. L.O.L! You have put great detail into your cars from what I can see and did it all on a budget. That part I am trying to mimic. All your vehicles make me drewel to be honest. I really like your drag car. What made you decide to go with the massive amount of orange?
It really works well with the era of the car and frankly, I don't think I would have had the grape nuts to have tried it. I'm always apprehensive when it comes to colors and how far to take it. Good on you for pulling it off so well. Anyways, talk to you later, it's gotten late.

Aaron...
 
ariffle said:
I really like your drag car. What made you decide to go with the massive amount of orange?
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ariffle said:
It really works well with the era of the car and frankly, I don't think I would have had the grape nuts to have tried it. I'm always apprehensive when it comes to colors and how far to take it. Aaron...
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I've been around race cars ever since I graduated high school. Prior to that I was already a big fan of the old Nascar vehicles from the 60s and 70s. There wasn't much televised coverage of drag racing but I was awed by the 1/4 mile cars I saw in HOT ROD magazine.

After work, I'd go to night school studying auto body and paint along with taking several other automotive courses. When friends of mine found out I was preparing to get into body repair they began looking for favors. I never had a proper spray booth so I shied away from painting street vehicles but gladly took on several of the local race cars. I'd shoot them for the cost of the materials just so I could gain experience. I started to study commercial art. Some of what I read were books that focused on race car graphics. The rules for planning a successful layout for products (according to what I learned) included:

1.Try to keep a scheme limited to 2 or 3 colors. # was preferable.
2.Make certain there is a high degree of contrast between chosen colors. It should be easy to distinguish a logo even in dim light. A way to test was to take both color and black & white pictures. They should be equally readable.
3.Size all major lettering large enough to be read from the distance it is normally viewed from.
4.Make sure fonts are chosen that aren't difficult to read.
5.If possible try to tie the car's accessories in with the chosen colors on the car.

I've probably painted and lettered 50 race cars over the years. It's not a huge number but I only did it as a hobby. Six of the vehicles I'd done won awards for paint. I also did some design work for businesses and sign painting.

So I wasn't too skitterish when it came to the Duster. My goal was to keep it cheap. The car was already black and I wasn't about to spend money changing that. Instead I worked with it. Black is a good color to start with when you have a car that will primarily be driven in daylight. The two colors that have the highest contrast to the black are orange and yellow. That's why the government uses those combinations for road signs dealing with caution.

Instead of a straight yellow I chose to go with more of a gold tone hoping it would tie in with the orange better. The large DUSTER logo on the sides has a metal-flake in it which in turn, ties it in with the gold.

The scheme is meant for a race car. I'm not sure it could be pulled off successfully for the street. But then again Chrysler did some very bold things with paint. - And there were Rambler Scramblers. - And Mod Tops. I guess the 'Lil Red Express is hardly a wallflower.
 
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I've still been detailing small parts for the truck before assembling. Over all the Express was still in good shape but there were still areas that showed wear from the sun and from 36 years of cleaning. My instrument panel cluster was nice but the silver (chrome) detailing was pretty thin. I still haven't gotten around to getting my plater set up so I did the next best thing I could think of. I used those paint pens that I'd bought to use on the Duster's trunk lid mural.

BEFORE

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AFTER

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One nice trinket that I'd picked up over 30 years ago was a pewter 'Lil Red Express key chain. It's sort of beat up from use over the years but you can still read the logo on the sides of it. They no longer make them. I also bought one for my PT Cruiser 15 years ago.

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JOHN, I too would hate to see you back off or heaven forbid leave totally. I have only been on FABO about a year and have learned a great deal. I was out of the seen for about 30 years and just back to my MOPAR's a year ago altho I have owned them since I bought my 1sy one in Nov 68. My 69 Bee hooked me for life on Mopar's no doubt.I look forward to reading your posts every time I see them listed and get a great kick out of your humor when things don't go just right. I too noticed the negative and bullying posts and agree with your thinking there. Many times I have had to sit on my hands to keep from posting things and fear of saying the wrong things. Each and every time I did that it ended up being the right thing to do. I can take negative critisisim {sp} :) when and if I'm going the wrong way but some respond with a bully type way and knowing me I'm gonna come back and respond the wrong way. I don't want to see you back off or leave because some react the wrong way to "stupid" questions. We all had to learn in one way or another in order to build these cars and I'm sure we all asked dumb stupid questions. Take care my friend { I feel we are friends and hope you fell that way too} Your not all that far away from me and I need to put some miles on my INDY RAM, I would love to look at your cars and BS with you any day.
Jim
ps. damn I wrote a book, didn't I :-D
 

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